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#1138644 --- 01/27/10 08:56 AM Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights
Jelloshot Offline
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Willet Dairy in Cayuga County targeted by animal rights group
By Debra J. Groom / The Post-Standard
January 26, 2010, 8:20PM
Syracuse, NY -- A group called Mercy for Animals plans a news conference today to show what it calls inhumane treatment of cows and calves on the Willet Dairy in Genoa, Cayuga County. Willet Dairy is the largest farm in Cayuga County. Mercy for Animals said the farm has 7,000 cows.

Mercy for Animals is a Chicago-based animal rights organization that advocates a vegan diet. The organization said one of its members, who filmed the video, worked undercover at Willet Dairy. The group has posted the video on its Web site.

The group maintains farmworkers hit, kicked and used electric prods on cows; cows suffered from open wounds that were not treated; heifers had their tails cut off and their horns burned off without painkillers; cows were injected with hormones so they would produce more milk; and calves were dragged away from their mothers shortly after birth.

ABC “World News” with Diane Sawyer Tuesday night featured a three-minute piece on the treatment of animals on large farms and focused on the Mercy for Animals video the group said was filmed at Willet Dairy. In the piece, ABC’s chief investigative reporter Brian Ross interviewed a person with the National Milk Producers Federation, Nathan Runkle, of Mercy for Animals, and Lyn O’Dell, owner of Willet Dairy.

O’Dell was out of town on vacation Tuesday and couldn’t be reached for comment. In the ABC report, he said he does not tolerate the abuse of animals.

“Our animals are critically important to our well-being, so we work hard to treat them well, to treat them medically when they need to be treated, to ensure their lives are good while they’re here,” O’Dell said. Ross showed him scenes from the Mercy for Animals video, and O’Dell told Ross, “They picked out a few isolated incidents and they’re trying to portray them as something that is malicious on our part, that we don’t do a good job with our animals.”

O’Dell also told Ross he would not hesitate to fire any employee who mistreated one of the farm’s dairy cows.

Also Tuesday night, Diane Adsit, a Cayuga County assistant district attorney, issued the following statement concerning the district attorney’s investigation:

“The Cayuga County District Attorney’s office was presented with a complaint about alleged abuse and neglect of dairy cattle at Willet Dairy Farm.

“Many of the practices shown in edited videotapes presented by Mercy for Animals were of commonly accepted practices used to protect both animals and farmers on large dairy farms such as Willet Farm.

“While shocking to look at, these practices are not necessarily illegal. ...”

“The complaint has been turned over to the SPCA (Finger Lakes SPCA) in Cayuga County which is the agency in Cayuga County designated to investigate animal abuse and neglect complaints. and their investigation is not complete.

“If their investigation develops admissible evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that New York laws have been violated and the SPCA files charges, the Cayuga County District Attorney’s office will prosecute anyone so charged.”

Mercy For Animals states that as a result of its investigation, Assemblywoman Linda B. Rosenthal, D-Manhattan, has introduced a bill that would ban tail docking.

Dan Welch, animal science and farm business management educator for Cayuga County Cooperative Extension, said a majority of dairy farmers treat their cows well because well-cared-for animals stay alive longer and produce more milk.

Concerning some of the practices shown in the video, Welch said many are common practices on dairy farms. He said nearly every farm in New York state removes calves from their mothers to prevent infection and disease for the calves and the mothers after birth. He also said tail docking and removal of horns are done to keep workers and other cows safe.

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#1138652 --- 01/27/10 09:11 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Jelloshot]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Where is Mike Nozzolio on this outragous abuse of animals.

Why doesn't he intoduce stiffer penalties for animal abuse...

Is he too busy carving up the State of NY that will go nowhere?
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#1138674 --- 01/27/10 10:16 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
redcowman Offline
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This is how its done and has been done for some time. The horns get taken off to protect the other cows and the people that work with them. If done right it should only hurt for a little while. One cow with horns can really screw up another. The tails can be done with a rubberband type thing, cuts the blood off and it falls off later. Why? Ever got hit in the face with a wet cows tail? not a good time, also in a freestall setting tails are docked to prevent others from stepping on them. Then you have a real mess. If this guy is milking 7000 head he must be doing something right. These cows are his income. To abuse these cows would be like cutting your own throat. Calves are taken away from their mothers so that the farmer can control what and when they eat also their health. Not all mother cows are nice when it comes time to tend to a sick calf. After the mother has the calf its her peak milk production time. After a few days shes ready to go. Way too much milk for a calf in dairy cows. If you look into it Im sure this gut has an army of vets, AI breeders,nutrition specialists and a bunch of others Im not even listing. This is a 24/7 job 365 and yes even on Christmas

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#1138681 --- 01/27/10 10:26 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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If done right it should only hurt for a little while.


WHO KNOWS? the COW?
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#1138690 --- 01/27/10 10:33 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
Animal Lover Offline
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I understand that dairy farmers work very hard. I certainly would not want their job. But I saw the ABC news report last night and wondered where in "upstate NY" this farm was. What I saw was disturbing. I am not a vegetarian. I eat meat etc. I'm not a looney PETA card carrying member, but I consider myself a person who has respect for all living creatures and I believe when using animals to make a living one should treat those animals with respect. What I saw was unnecessary.

At one point a cow was tied to a post in a very uncomfortable position. It's neck was extended back so far it looked like it might break if it twisted the wrong way. In that position it was easiest for it to just let it's body drop and lay down. Oh, BTW, it was tied up because it was going to get it's tail cut off. What does the guy do to the cow? He pulls it up by the tail once again arching it's neck. They showed him pulling out these huge cutters and getting ready to cut the tail off and then they cut the video so people at home didn't have to witness it. The commentator said it wasn't giving any medication for pain etc. Maybe there are not many nerves in the cows tail but why not give the cow some novacain or something?

I think we as a society need to really think about these things. We are over populating the earth, consuming way beyond reasonable means, therefore creating huge dairy farms, chicken farms, pig farms etc. The place was disgusting with the cows walking through their crap. Apparently they never even go outside. I have always known these places exist but it made me reconsider consuming dairy products. I can almost understand why people do become vegans.


Edited by Animal Lover (01/27/10 10:34 AM)

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#1138705 --- 01/27/10 11:11 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Animal Lover]
Greymane Offline
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Animal Lover, the problem is, I could take a camera to the annual dog show at Sampson and make a video that would have you sick to your stomach. It is all in the edit.

Having worked on a dairy farm as a kid, it was a LOT of work and the animals were treated quite well, but I had a lot of fun. (And, yes, the cows had a very large pasture that they wandered all day long.)

More importantly, why is some politician from Manhattan (who probably wouldn't know a cow if it ran over her) introducing legislation regarding farm animals? (Answer: publicity)
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#1138707 --- 01/27/10 11:13 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Animal Lover]
redcowman Offline
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I did not get a chance to watch the show sorry to say. I would NOT cut a cows tail off that way. Thats just wrong. When raising dairy calves I used the rubberband and it was done when very young. And LUSI, I do not burn off my cows horns. If you guys get a chance I think its the end of next month there is a farm show in Syracuse at the fairgrounds. You should see the new things that they come out with. A happy cow produces more milk. From the sounds of it theres a hired hand that needs to find a different job, real quick. Im not super farmer or anything but I do have a wall full of banners, ribbons and trophies from our cows. I have learned one thing over the years. Once a cow or bull has been abused you will never get back the respect, they get nuts. We have cows out here that you cant move they just stand there and if you go out there with a brush they come running and you get knocked around like a pinball and just because your done brushing them does not mean that they are done getting brushed. They even make waterbed for dairy cows now. Really!!!

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#1138715 --- 01/27/10 11:35 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Hey, I am sitting here eating a hamburger reading this. I just want more humane treatment for these animals before they are harvested.
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#1138723 --- 01/27/10 11:45 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greymane
Having worked on a dairy farm as a kid, it was a LOT of work and the animals were treated quite well, but I had a lot of fun. (And, yes, the cows had a very large pasture that they wandered all day long.)
I suspect that was a lot of years when you were a kid? The large farms are a whole different than when you were a kid. That is the problem that no one sees until it hits the fan in a report like this.
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#1138725 --- 01/27/10 11:46 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greymane
More importantly, why is some politician from Manhattan (who probably wouldn't know a cow if it ran over her) introducing legislation regarding farm animals? (Answer: publicity)
Answer: because all the local politicans are afraid of losing votes if they sponsored such legislation.
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#1138726 --- 01/27/10 11:48 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Kudo's to Mercy for Animals.

Thanks to the person who gave me the Farm's phone number.


I called to try to ask questions and they hung up on me.
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#1138733 --- 01/27/10 12:02 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greymane
Having worked on a dairy farm as a kid, it was a LOT of work and the animals were treated quite well, but I had a lot of fun. (And, yes, the cows had a very large pasture that they wandered all day long.)

How big a pasture do you need for 60,000 cows?

http://www.mythinglinks.org/FactoryFarms_WalmartManureDoc.html

Dairy CAFO proposal by den Dulk in Ionia, MI --

The Wal-Marts of Manure?

Timothy C. den Dulk owns and manages dairy farms in California, New Mexico, Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana that milk approximately 30,000 cows. He also raises dairy heifers in Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska and South Dakota which, when combined with his milking cows, total to a herd size of almost 60,000 cows. Additionally, Mr. den Dulk farms row crops on approximately 20,000 acres in the above mentioned states as well as grapes, walnuts, peaches and almonds in California.
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#1138736 --- 01/27/10 12:13 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Greymane Offline
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Considering it is spread over 10 states, I imagine they have quite a bit of pasture.

It was a long time ago, but I see the owners everytime I go home (neighbors to our farm).
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#1138738 --- 01/27/10 12:13 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
redcowman Offline
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If your lucky 1cow to 2 acres. Midwest is anywheres from 1 to 3 to 1 to 18 acres depending on the soil and how they take care of it. Ive worked on large dairy farms and hauled alot of those pigs south of Waterloo. Bottom line is there is no money in dead or injured animals. It may not be right that it comes down to money but, it does.

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#1138750 --- 01/27/10 01:12 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
past tense Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greymane
More importantly, why is some politician from Manhattan (who probably wouldn't know a cow if it ran over her) introducing legislation regarding farm animals? (Answer: publicity)


Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal has a history of animal rights support.

One doesn't have to grow up with a lawn to love ALL animals.

Oh, and she went to U of R. Does living upstate, even briefly, qualify her to care about farm animals? Or should she stick to apartment-sized animals?

http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/?ad=067&sh=bio
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#1138753 --- 01/27/10 01:18 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greymane
Considering it is spread over 10 states, I imagine they have quite a bit of pasture.

It was a long time ago, but I see the owners everytime I go home (neighbors to our farm).

Yes that is the way it was a long time ago! Now today none of those 60,000 cows will ever see a pasture!

http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/site...ncerns/issue/25


For 33 years, eight months, and 20 days, Vance Gentry of Shady Valley in Johnson County, Tennessee milked cows at four in the morning and four in the evening. He still wakes up before his alarm even though he sold his herd two years ago, unable to make a living.

Johnson County lies tucked in the Appalachian Mountains in the far northeast corner of Tennessee. It is a county rich in dairy farming, a tradition however that’s been fading as small dairies become unsustainable for local farmers. Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations (CAFO) are the new, large dairies that are surfacing all over the nation in rural communities.

Over the past 20 years the number of dairies in Tennessee has dropped from 3,695 to 703. Gentry remembers 11 Grade A dairies in Johnson County alone. Now only one is left. The pressure of high production costs and low milk prices forced Gentry to join the scores of other dairymen that gave up their business after years of struggling to make ends meet. “I was getting the same price for milk I was getting 25 years ago, while the cost of producing milk continued to increase,” he said.

Dairymen buy their equipment, feed, water, etc. at retail prices but sell their milk at mandated wholesale prices leaving little room for earnings. “You’ve got to make a profit and there’s not a lot of incentives to keep you going,” Gentry said. “When it comes down to it, you have to have a bigger operation to maintain a profit.” And that’s exactly what is being built a few miles up the road near the town of Mountain City.

The controversy surrounding a new 690-cow CAFO has polarized the Mountain City community, driving families and churches apart as its residents grapple with the economic and environmental impact this new dairy will have on their town. As the first CAFO in the county, High Mountain Holsteins, in partnership with Maymead Inc, is set to begin milking in June leaving behind a trail of battles. Part of what has stirred opposition to the CAFO is the large number of cows that are kept and fed in a confined area with little access to sunlight, fresh air, and movement. The over 20,000 CAFOs in the U.S. produce 575 million pounds of manure a year, which is stored in lagoons and sprayed on surrounding property. Since 2003, the EPA has set mandatory regulations on CAFOs with additional regulation set by each state.
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#1138762 --- 01/27/10 01:36 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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apartment-sized animals......hmmm great marketing line....


SALE - This week ONLY all apartment-sized animals........
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#1138767 --- 01/27/10 01:46 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Animal Lover Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greymane
Animal Lover, the problem is, I could take a camera to the annual dog show at Sampson and make a video that would have you sick to your stomach. It is all in the edit.

Having worked on a dairy farm as a kid, it was a LOT of work and the animals were treated quite well, but I had a lot of fun. (And, yes, the cows had a very large pasture that they wandered all day long.)

More importantly, why is some politician from Manhattan (who probably wouldn't know a cow if it ran over her) introducing legislation regarding farm animals? (Answer: publicity)


Grey, as others have pointed out you are talking about when you were a kid and the cows went to pasture. This article states:

Quote:
Willet Dairy is the largest farm in Cayuga County. Mercy for Animals said the farm has 7,000 cows.


If I'm not mistaken, those 7,000 cows LIVE in barns and NEVER go to pasture. At least that is the way it is at many of these large factory farms. And while they are in those barns they are prodded, tails cut off, slapped and kicked. I saw the video and there was a smaller cow sniffing around being curious and she was slapped as hard as the farmhand could hit her on her head. I didn't see any reason for the cow to be hit on the head the way it was.

And I have been to Sampson dog show many times and I've never seen a dog slapped, kicked or a dog's tail cut off. I know that some breeds have their tails docked but they do it at a very young age. Practices of breeders, such as tail docking, ear docking and cutting their nails very short are things I don't agree with but the treatment of most show dogs could never compare to the way cows are treated in this factory farm. No comparison whatsoever.

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#1138776 --- 01/27/10 02:17 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Animal Lover]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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What goes on at the Sampson Dog Show that is abusive. Please back your statement up.
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#1138784 --- 01/27/10 02:29 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
Where is Mike Nozzolio on this outragous abuse of animals.

Why doesn't he intoduce stiffer penalties for animal abuse...
He is afraid he would lose farmers votes.
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#1138791 --- 01/27/10 02:35 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Ahhh - the Ag vote - good observation
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#1138799 --- 01/27/10 02:48 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
Ahhh - the Ag vote - good observation
How to get themselves re-elected and continue to feed off the public trough is their main goal in whatever they do.
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#1138803 --- 01/27/10 02:53 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Registered: 11/16/01
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Google -- Nozzolio Farm -- if you want to validate
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#1138806 --- 01/27/10 02:57 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
flbuldog Offline
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Heres the VIDEO.. so we can see how its done

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/dairy/

My grandfather had a dairy farm.. it didn't look like that.
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#1138808 --- 01/27/10 02:58 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: flbuldog]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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I can't watch --- sorry
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#1138810 --- 01/27/10 03:03 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
flbuldog Offline
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I watched.. they have a good case. I hope Auburn SPCA and or the DA pursues it.
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#1138825 --- 01/27/10 03:22 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: flbuldog]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
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Originally Posted By: flbuldog
Heres the VIDEO.. so we can see how its done

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/dairy/

My grandfather had a dairy farm.. it didn't look like that.


Comments witih the video:

Far from leading the carefree lives portrayed in the dairy industry's "happy cow" commercials, the vast majority of cows used for dairy production today lead lives of deprivation, confinement, painful mutilations and cruel handling. These curious and intelligent animals are denied access to open pasture and treated as mere milk-producing machines - forced to live on manure-coated concrete floors in overcrowded sheds.

A new Mercy For Animals investigation is pulling back the curtains on the largest dairy factory farm in New York State – Willet Dairy in Locke. In early 2009 an MFA undercover investigator worked at the mega-dairy, secretly documenting egregious acts of animal cruelty, including neglect, with a hidden camera.

Evidence gathered during the investigation reveals:

Cows with bloody open wounds, prolapsed uteruses, pus-filled infections, and swollen joints, apparently left to suffer without veterinary care

"Downed" cows – those too sick or injured to even stand – left to suffer for weeks before dying or being killed

Workers hitting, kicking, punching, and electric-shocking cows and calves

Calves having their horns burned off without painkillers, as a worker shoved his fingers into the calves' eyes to restrain them

Calves having their tails cut off - a painful practice opposed by the American Veterinary Medical Association

Newborn calves forcibly dragged away from their mothers by their legs, causing emotional distress to both mother and calf

Cows living in overcrowded sheds on manure-coated concrete flooring

Workers injecting cows with a controversial bovine growth hormone, used to increase milk production

In a joint statement, internationally renowned experts, including Dr. Bernard Rollin, an expert witness on animal welfare issues in the U.S. and abroad, and Dr. Temple Grandin, a world-renowned cattle welfare expert and advisor to the USDA, compared the conditions documented at Willet to the infamous Hallmark slaughterhouse, where undercover video exposing abuse of downed cows resulted in the largest beef recall in US history. They state, "This dairy presents at least as bad a picture of the industry as does Hallmark."

New York veterinarian, Dr. Holly Cheever, bluntly stated, "[I]t is my professional opinion that the environment that this dairy provides as well as its cattle-handling techniques are improper, unhygienic, dangerous, and inhumane."

Despite the overwhelming evidence that the dairy operation repeatedly violated New York's animal cruelty laws, which was meticulously compiled by Mercy For Animals and presented to the Cayuga County District Attorney, the law enforcement agency refuses to uphold the state's laws to protect animals - allowing abuse to continue at Willet, unchecked.

Sadly, the inhumane conditions uncovered at this factory farm are not isolated. Whether raised for meat, dairy or eggs, animals used in food production are frequently subjected to appalling confinement, mutilations, brutal handling and slaughter. Because agribusiness values profit over ethical principles, cruelty to animals continues to run rampant on factory farms.

Thankfully, compassionate consumers can choose to withdraw their support of these abusive industries by adopting a vegan diet. Each time we eat we can choose kindness over cruelty.

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#1138894 --- 01/27/10 04:37 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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I watched. I am sickened. I hope these people are arrested.

To the one that brags about beating the cows and fears he will have arthritis in his hand, I hope he loses full use of it. Cracking a cow over the head with a wrench. I hope they have enough tape on him to put him away.
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#1138908 --- 01/27/10 05:09 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Animal Lover Offline
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Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
What goes on at the Sampson Dog Show that is abusive. Please back your statement up.


Lusi, what in the heck are you talking about? Your reply was addressed to me and I want to be sure that you and others understand I said no such thing about abuse at Sampson Dog Show.

Greymane posted:

Quote:
Animal Lover, the problem is, I could take a camera to the annual dog show at Sampson and make a video that would have you sick to your stomach. It is all in the edit.


I replied to him that I have never seen anything abusive at the Sampson Dog Show when I attended. I did say that I find some practices by breeders such as tail docking, ear cropping or cutting nails short so the feet don't splay to be abusive. But I've not witnessed it being done and especially not at a dog show.

What this dairy farm has done cannot compare to anything that "might" go on at a dog show, edited video or what have you. Greymane was just blowing smoke trying to cover for his dairy farm friends.

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#1138926 --- 01/27/10 05:59 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Animal Lover]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Registered: 11/16/01
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I just posted next AL, not specifically to you. It WAS what Greymane wrote - you are correct.
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#1139011 --- 01/27/10 09:56 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
sickofjerks Offline
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Posts: 226
Loc: new york
Having seen the cows at a slaughter house 35 years ago made me give up meat and become a vegetarian. I don't try to inject my beliefs onto others, but I do think anyone who abuses an animal should be treated as a criminal. Animals were not put on earth for use to hit, kick, deform, or torture. I believe any one who can treat miss-treat an animal can also do the same with a human. Just because you are going to slaughter the animal for food, does not make it right to put that being through cruelty beforehand. Hunters at least are killing an animal in a more natural environment. Animals have the same feeling for pain and loss as humans. They grieve, cry, and have contentment in their lives. Let's try to show compassion.

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#1139017 --- 01/27/10 10:14 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: sickofjerks]
queenbee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 1758
Loc: soul quest
Aren't the cows tails their only defense against flies and bugs??? I say put these taildocking farmers in a room naked with thousands of flies and bugs and tie them spreadeagle so they can not shoosh the bugs away. Let's see how they like not being able to fend off insects from nasal passages, eyes, ears and any other orifice the bug may wander into too. Is it legal to picket a farm such as this for cruelty?? I'll be first in line, lousy sob's.
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#1139111 --- 01/28/10 06:23 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: queenbee]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Click to see new video:

Other farmers across the state are now reacting to the images that are being strewn across television sets and the internet. As our Katie Gibas tells us, farmers say they're shocked by the accusations and hope it doesn't have an impact on the industry. We want to warn you that this story features some graphic video.

http://news10now.com/cny-news-1013-content/top_stories/?ArID=494431

JEFFERSON COUNTY, N.Y. -- Farmers are shocked, disturbed and outraged by undercover video filmed at Willet Farms in Cayuga County, so much so that they're questioning the validity of the video's location.

"It's always been one of the top run dairies, highly represented around the industry and the state and I'm shocked that that video purportedly was shot at their dairy," said Ron Kuck, a dairy livestock educator.

Tail-docking and de-horning are common practices on farms to ensure both worker and cattle safety.

"The employee has to be behind the cow a lot and when they're milking and if that cow switches their tail, if they get hit in the eyeball, it could put your eye out," said farmer Nancy Robbins.

"I got nailed by a cow with horns and it's not fun. Luckily it didn't draw blood," said Jay Matteson, Jefferson County Agricultural Coordinator.

According to farmers we spoke with, both practices are usually done in a much less painful manner and using anesthetics. They say it is in their best interest to perform these practices humanely.

"A cow is going to make milk according to her comfort. Now if that cow is uncomfortable having her tail docked, for several days, they're going to lose that milk production from the cow," said Robbins.

And farmers are outraged by how the video portrays them.

"It's a misrepresentation of everything I've worked for, Mrs. Robbins has worked for, every dairy farm in this state and country have done. That kind of stuff is never done on a dairy farm," said Kuck.

As for proposed legislation to ban tail docking, farmers have mixed opinions about it. At this point, their main concern is how the industry's image will be affected by this.
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#1139112 --- 01/28/10 06:24 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: queenbee]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: queenbee
Is it legal to picket a farm such as this for cruelty?? I'll be first in line, lousy sob's.
Of course it is legal to picket any business. Go for it.
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#1139146 --- 01/28/10 08:07 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
alummule Offline
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Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 622
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#1139268 --- 01/28/10 11:54 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
What goes on at the Sampson Dog Show that is abusive. Please back your statement up.


I never said there was anything abusive. I am saying that a video can be made to support any point of view even if the events shown are purely innocent. It is all about context.
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#1139275 --- 01/28/10 11:57 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
You need to watch the Willet Farm Documentary Video.

I doubt any puppies are being dragged by their feet away from their crying mothers at Sampson.
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#1139279 --- 01/28/10 12:00 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
What goes on at the Sampson Dog Show that is abusive. Please back your statement up.

I never said there was anything abusive. I am saying that a video can be made to support any point of view even if the events shown are purely innocent. It is all about context.

Originally Posted By: Greymane
the problem is, I could take a camera to the annual dog show at Sampson and make a video that would have you sick to your stomach. It is all in the edit.

Baloney. You have changed your tune completely since yesterday.


Edited by kyle585 (01/28/10 12:10 PM)
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#1139287 --- 01/28/10 12:12 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: past tense]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: past tense
Originally Posted By: Greymane
More importantly, why is some politician from Manhattan (who probably wouldn't know a cow if it ran over her) introducing legislation regarding farm animals? (Answer: publicity)


Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal has a history of animal rights support.

One doesn't have to grow up with a lawn to love ALL animals.

Oh, and she went to U of R. Does living upstate, even briefly, qualify her to care about farm animals? Or should she stick to apartment-sized animals?

http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/?ad=067&sh=bio


She can love animals until the cows come home (sorry for the pun). I just don't think that politicians should be PROPOSING LAW about things that they are not well versed. I love elephants, but I certainly wouldn't propose making a law regarding their care as I have never cared for an elephant.

I don't support nor oppose this farm. I don't know what really happens there. Nor do you. As long as I am eating my steaks and not driving to the farm to see what is actually happening, I figure I don't have a lot of say in it. When I eat my venison, I know how it died (and how it lived, since I watch them year round).

I have enough land that I could raise my own beef if I chose. I choose not to, so I relinquish SOME control over how they are raised. That is why we have laws (hopefully written and enforced by people who understand their purpose). I know it is a bit of a ramble, but does that make sense?

I don't oppose protecting animals. I worry about people piling on based on one person's perspective. Did you ever condsider that this person could have paid another worker to harm an animal? Of course, the media would NEVER create a story. And, as I said, I don't know one way or the other, but if you REALLY cared, you would drive out to the farm tonight to find out. Is that your car I hear warming up??

(I stand by to be soundly word-whipped.)
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#1139291 --- 01/28/10 12:19 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
I don't oppose protecting animals. I worry about people piling on based on one person's perspective. Did you ever condsider that this person could have paid another worker to harm an animal? Of course, the media would NEVER create a story. And, as I said, I don't know one way or the other, but if you REALLY cared, you would drive out to the farm tonight to find out. Is that your car I hear warming up??

(I stand by to be soundly word-whipped.)

Are you serious? Do you think they would let any stranger onto their farm under the current situation? LOL
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#1139294 --- 01/28/10 12:23 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
past tense Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29711
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Greymane
She can love animals until the cows come home (sorry for the pun). I just don't think that politicians should be PROPOSING LAW about things that they are not well versed. I love elephants, but I certainly wouldn't propose making a law regarding their care as I have never cared for an elephant.


How do you know how well-versed or not she is in this subject? If someone is passionate about something they often make it their business to become well-versed. And she lived Upstate for 4 years. I learned a lot about Alaska in 3 so I think she's got a fair shot at being "well-versed". You don't really know what she knows.

Originally Posted By: Greymane
I don't support nor oppose this farm. I don't know what really happens there. Nor do you.


Um. Ok.

Originally Posted By: Greymane
As long as I am eating my steaks and not driving to the farm to see what is actually happening, I figure I don't have a lot of say in it. When I eat my venison, I know how it died (and how it lived, since I watch them year round).


Now you're off on some crazy tangent about farming in general. I'm not a vegetarian and I haven't said a thing about the ethics of eating meat, or of farmed meats.

Originally Posted By: Greymane
I have enough land that I could raise my own beef if I chose. I choose not to, so I relinquish SOME control over how they are raised. That is why we have laws (hopefully written and enforced by people who understand their purpose). I know it is a bit of a ramble, but does that make sense?


It makes a lot of sense. What doesn't make sense that you seem to magically "know" what this Assemblywoman knows about farms and animal rights.

I don't think one needs to grow up on a farm to object to what we saw in that video. I don't think one needs a degree in animal husbandry to qualify to propose legislation about animals.

And for the sake of argument, let's say she's NOT an expert on farming. The video speaks for itself. You can ramble on about context but I can't imagine a context in which that kind of treatment of animals would be acceptable. My uncle owned a dairy farm when I was a kid and I never saw ANYTHING like that go on.

Originally Posted By: Greymane
I don't oppose protecting animals. I worry about people piling on based on one person's perspective.


ONE PERSON!

There are a lot of people - including farmers - whose "perspective" is that the actions in this video are unacceptable in any context. Is your beef (pardon the pun!) really just that the person who sponsored the legislation is from NYC? Because that's - almost incredible, really. I don't know why growing up in a city precludes one from having knowledge on, or opinions on, animal rights.

Originally Posted By: Greymane
Did you ever condsider that this person could have paid another worker to harm an animal? Of course, the media would NEVER create a story. And, as I said, I don't know one way or the other, but if you REALLY cared, you would drive out to the farm tonight to find out. Is that your car I hear warming up??

(I stand by to be soundly word-whipped.)


I can't drive to the farm tonight. I live in Texas now (which means I don't have to warm my car up at all anymore).

And no, I never considered that vegans paid people to hurt animals in order to dissuade people from eating them. But - I suppose anything is possible. All the vegans I know avoid dairy but enjoy kicking cats.


Edited by past tense (01/28/10 12:25 PM)
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#1139295 --- 01/28/10 12:23 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
Kudo's to Mercy for Animals.

Thanks to the person who gave me the Farm's phone number.


I called to try to ask questions and they hung up on me.


They won't even talk on the phone! Probably on advice of their lawyer.
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#1139300 --- 01/28/10 12:32 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Got them today.

I asked if they fired the worker that punched the cows - they said they did...


I asked if they corrected the procedure where the cows got off the truck and were slipping on the concrete which could potentially break their legs, he said it was corrected...

Conversation ended there.....

Call them - ask them some questions
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#1139302 --- 01/28/10 12:32 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Greymane

She can love animals until the cows come home (sorry for the pun). I just don't think that politicians should be PROPOSING LAW about things that they are not well versed.

I think you're making an assumption here. How do you know the politician in question hasn't researched the subject?
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#1139321 --- 01/28/10 01:15 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Josephus]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Greymane

She can love animals until the cows come home (sorry for the pun). I just don't think that politicians should be PROPOSING LAW about things that they are not well versed.

I think you're making an assumption here. How do you know the politician in question hasn't researched the subject?


Lots of passion here. That is a wonderful thing. IF (and I stress IF) these things are being done on this farm, they will be dealt with in due time.

Jos, I don't know she didn't research it, but I have spent enough time in Albany at their offices to know that the VAST majority know almost NOTHING about the laws they sponsor and vote on. They have staff that may (or may not) properly research these things and make recommendations to them. In most cases, the staff are passionate kids approaching the fringes of the left or right (depending on their boss). The decisions to "jump onboard" are generally political in nature.

I don't know for certain how much or how little this woman put into researching the topic. None of you one this forum knows what actually happened at that farm or how that video was made. Having grown up on a farm, if this is business as usual on that farm, I hope they shut it down tomorrow, but I will admit I am skeptical. Even the farmers who commented were surprised that THIS farm would commit such atrocities.
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#1139324 --- 01/28/10 01:23 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
What goes on at the Sampson Dog Show that is abusive. Please back your statement up.

I never said there was anything abusive. I am saying that a video can be made to support any point of view even if the events shown are purely innocent. It is all about context.

Originally Posted By: Greymane
the problem is, I could take a camera to the annual dog show at Sampson and make a video that would have you sick to your stomach. It is all in the edit.


Baloney. You have changed your tune completely since yesterday.


No change in tune. I have been to the Sampson dog show. I have no doubt that there is incredible love and compassion for the dogs there. Nonetheless, some good camera angles and great editing would make a purely innocent scene look pretty scary. I only have to find one person who is tired and rushing jerks the leash a little harder than usual. One dog that is recovering from an injured leg.

I have a blast at the show and if I ever saw abuse, I would correct it ON THE SPOT. That doesn't mean I couldn't make it look bad, though.

Just as an example, if I posted on here that someone was feeding rancid food to the dogs at the show, there would be a dozen people come on hear talking about the horrors that they saw at the show. It doesn't have to be true, you just have to be convincing. Welcome to the modern media. Whatever sells.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Dr. Lawrence J. Peter

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#1139333 --- 01/28/10 01:50 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
None of you one this forum knows what actually happened at that farm or how that video was made. Having grown up on a farm, if this is business as usual on that farm, I hope they shut it down tomorrow, but I will admit I am skeptical. Even the farmers who commented were surprised that THIS farm would commit such atrocities.
They admitted to Lusifer on the phone that they fired one guy for what was on the video! And they adnitted to him that they are correcting another action based on what was on the video! So obviously what was on the video was at least partially true. Be skeptical all you want. They have admitted wrong doing over the phone for gods sake without even knowing who they were talking to! That is not very smart of them at all. I think that farm is in big trouble.
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#1139334 --- 01/28/10 01:52 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
I have a blast at the show and if I ever saw abuse, I would correct it ON THE SPOT.
You would correct it on the spot how? By stealing someones dog? You make some amazing statements.
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#1139347 --- 01/28/10 02:20 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Yep, they were very accommodating of my questions today....

I should have had more, but thought I'd get hung up on again...
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#1139348 --- 01/28/10 02:26 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Greymane
None of you one this forum knows what actually happened at that farm or how that video was made. Having grown up on a farm, if this is business as usual on that farm, I hope they shut it down tomorrow, but I will admit I am skeptical. Even the farmers who commented were surprised that THIS farm would commit such atrocities.
They admitted to Lusifer on the phone that they fired one guy for what was on the video! And they adnitted to him that they are correcting another action based on what was on the video! So obviously what was on the video was at least partially true. Be skeptical all you want. They have admitted wrong doing over the phone for gods sake without even knowing who they were talking to! That is not very smart of them at all. I think that farm is in big trouble.


With people like you around, yes, they are. They fired the guy. Apparently he does not follow the rules under which they operate. As for the loading / unloading, certainly not the best method, but this happens ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
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#1139349 --- 01/28/10 02:28 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Greymane
I have a blast at the show and if I ever saw abuse, I would correct it ON THE SPOT.
You would correct it on the spot how? By stealing someones dog? You make some amazing statements.


Believe it or not, I have the animal control officer's number in my cell phone (since he farms the field next to my house).
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#1139387 --- 01/28/10 03:21 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Grey, I am trying to see things from your perspective and maybe I missed it, but have you watched the videos? Did you see the report on ABC news the other night? I did.

I don't want to watch the video again but those who have watched, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. At one point in the report, after the section showing video leading up to the tail being cut off of a cow, Mr. O'Dell (I believe that's who they said it was) was asked if the cow was given anything for pain. He said no. When asked if he thought that it might be painful for the cow he replied that you would have to ask the cow.

Now, to me that showed a HUGE lack of compassion on his part. Yes tail docking may be regular procedure at most dairy farms and I can see why it may need to be done for safety and sanitation, but in other reports it is stated that something should be given to the cow to reduce the pain, because a "happy", comfortable cow is going to be a better cow for milk production.

So, if I'm right and that was Mr. O'Dell who was interviewed, how can you say that it was edited or is being taken out of context? It was an unedited video in that particular segment. Questions being asked and answered directly with the interviewers face and voice and Mr. O'Dell's face and voice coming through the video camera all in one frame.

And any idiot (country bumpkin or city slicker) would be able to understand and make a law about how a dairy cow should be treated when docking it's tail. They would also understand issues such as it not being necessary to drag calves by their legs on their backs from their mothers, beating a cow for no reason or leaving sick cows untreated for days until they die. You wouldn't treat a dog like that so why should you treat a cow that way? And even if some cows or dogs are treated this way, it doesn't make it right and laws that prevent cruelty are certainly not going to ruin a dairy farmers business.

And these idiots in Cayuga County that do not want to prosecute are wimps. If they can't see reason enough to do an investigation and possibly press some charges I wouldn't trust them to protect our children from perverts. They should be put on probation for not taking their jobs seriously. Laws are there to uphold. If they don't want to do it, then move over and allow others to have the job.

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#1139390 --- 01/28/10 03:35 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2351
Loc: Seneca Lake
I think the farm in question is a CAFO. Here is how EPA describes CAFOs:

What is a CAFO?

Animal Feeding Operations (AFOs) are agricultural operations where animals are kept and raised in confined situations. AFOs congregate animals, feed, manure and urine, dead animals, and production operations on a small land area. Feed is brought to the animals rather than the animals grazing or otherwise seeking feed in pastures, fields, or on rangeland.

Your operation is an AFO if:

You confine animals for at least 45 days in a 12-month period, and
There's no grass or other vegetation in the confinement area during the normal growing season



Originally Posted By: redcowman
If your lucky 1cow to 2 acres. Midwest is anywheres from 1 to 3 to 1 to 18 acres depending on the soil and how they take care of it. Ive worked on large dairy farms and hauled alot of those pigs south of Waterloo. Bottom line is there is no money in dead or injured animals. It may not be right that it comes down to money but, it does.
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#1139582 --- 01/29/10 07:48 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: all seeing eye]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
I will agrue the point no further because most of you clearly have never spent time on a farm. (Claim what you like.) I hope you never eat a turkey at Thanksgiving. That is truly a sad situation. (Go ahead. Make you claims about that one too and ensure you review the government requirements for "free range" before you tell me about your turkey.)

As for the tail docking, tell me that a large number of dogs do not have their tails docked without proper vet supervision (and that is SOLELY for the asthetics). (And, I have heard the same arguement for dogs. "They don't really feel it." Yeah, right.)

I do not like it, but I accept it and continue to eat my steaks and drink my milk. When home, much of my meat is either venison or beef raised by a relative, but I don't ask where Abigail's gets their meat.

Before I worry about some cow getting her tail cut, I will struggle with the fact that kids are starving in Africa because the tons and tons of food that many of you send over their goes to the warehouses of the warlords so they can sell it to grow their war coffers. Children die of diseases that we hardly encounter in the US because they are PREVENTABLE with a pill costing a few cents.

That is my viewpoint. I don't ask you to subscribe to it.

(Oh, and ASE, I understand they have to have some guideline, but do you really think that confining an animal for four days a month is cruel? I guess I run an AFO for my kids because there are certainly four days a month (on average) that I don't think it is fit for them to go out and I have no grass in my living room.)
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#1139591 --- 01/29/10 08:07 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2351
Loc: Seneca Lake
The definition came from the EPA, not me.

Just wanted to make sure we know that the cows in question are not the ones in the "happy cows from california" ad.

PS, there is another bill pending to ban tail docking on dogs as well.
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#1139637 --- 01/29/10 09:17 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: all seeing eye]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
The definition came from the EPA, not me.

Just wanted to make sure we know that the cows in question are not the ones in the "happy cows from california" ad.

PS, there is another bill pending to ban tail docking on dogs as well.


No, I understand that.

Certainly, they are not the "happy cows". I don't know if I have ever seen a "happy cow". Not that they weren't happy, but how would you really know? Unless they are liking your nose, they really don't show much interaction.

I would support a ban on tail docking for dogs. I have to wonder what the AKCs stand would be on that. Wouldn't it affect the "standards" for many of the breeds? I know we talked about the dog show earlier. I don't doubt that these people love their animals, but some of them just don't get it. The levels they go to in the name of competition is crazy. (It is much like some people are with their kids when it comes to sports.)
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#1139675 --- 01/29/10 09:50 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
past tense Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29711
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Greymane
I do not like it, but I accept it and continue to eat my steaks and drink my milk. When home, much of my meat is either venison or beef raised by a relative, but I don't ask where Abigail's gets their meat.


What a copout. Seriously. Just because we're meat eaters doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about the practices by which we get our meat. Just because a farmer is doing the work for us doesn't mean we should just forgo interest or responsibility in how that animal was treated before it was treated in our own kitches.

And I'll be happy to spit your own words back on you - IF YOU REALLY DIDN'T LIKE IT YOU'D DRIVE TO THAT FARM TONIGHT.

Don't try telling me "you don't like it". You don't care and there's a difference.
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#1139686 --- 01/29/10 09:58 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: past tense]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: past tense
Originally Posted By: Greymane
I do not like it, but I accept it and continue to eat my steaks and drink my milk. When home, much of my meat is either venison or beef raised by a relative, but I don't ask where Abigail's gets their meat.


What a copout. Seriously. Just because we're meat eaters doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about the practices by which we get our meat. Just because a farmer is doing the work for us doesn't mean we should just forgo interest or responsibility in how that animal was treated before it was treated in our own kitches.

And I'll be happy to spit your own words back on you - IF YOU REALLY DIDN'T LIKE IT YOU'D DRIVE TO THAT FARM TONIGHT.

Don't try telling me "you don't like it". You don't care and there's a difference.


Don't be so foolish. Using your own logic, you approve of pedophiles. How much time did you spend monitoring chat rooms or tracking repeat sex offenders last night? That is what I though. It is called "picking your battles". None of us can do it all.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Dr. Lawrence J. Peter

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#1139688 --- 01/29/10 10:00 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
past tense Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29711
Loc: Houston, TX
LOL

That doesn't even make sense, first of all. Second, I'm using YOUR logic if you'll recall.
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#1139702 --- 01/29/10 10:10 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
(Oh, and ASE, I understand they have to have some guideline, but do you really think that confining an animal for four days a month is cruel? I guess I run an AFO for my kids because there are certainly four days a month (on average) that I don't think it is fit for them to go out and I have no grass in my living room.)
I linked to an operation that had 60,000 cows. I can guarantee you that all 60,000 of them are confined 365 days a year. That is where all tyoe of animal farming is going in the United States. If you don't believe me check into it further.
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#1139715 --- 01/29/10 10:23 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: kyle585
I can guarantee you that all 60,000 of them are confined 365 days a year.


Of course you can, because you have been there and personally monitored the cows for a full 365 days.

My point is that people are fully willing to ruin this farm as long as they can do it from a distance and it doesn't require too much effort. In reality, they don't like it, but they aren't willing to really do anything about it. I admit it. I am not passionate enough about this specific topic to drive out there and put a stop to it. Many of you claim you are. I would disagree.

We all have limits to our "passion". I love my kids. If my son ran into the road, I would dive in front of a car to protect him. I love dogs. If my dog ran into the road, I believe I would at least consider doing the same. If YOUR dog ran into the road, I AM NOT jumping in front of a car to save your dog. That is just the way it is.

I spent 17 years in the service defending what I thought was important. As a volunteer firefighter for over ten years, I went into burning buildings to protect life and property. My choice. BUT, I can't save everyone and everything. If I am not going to go the extra mile to fight a battle to conclusion, I am not going to research it to the level I should and, therefore, I surrender my right to make a decision on said topic. I can certainly express an opinion, but it is solely my opinion and I hold no one else accountable to follow it. For all I know, they may be better versed in the topic than I.
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#1139720 --- 01/29/10 10:33 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: kyle585
I can guarantee you that all 60,000 of them are confined 365 days a year.


Of course you can, because you have been there and personally monitored the cows for a full 365 days.


You are clueless. You could learn a lot using the internet if you knew how to use it but I doubt that you do.

http://www.nocafos.org/

In the last few years, 12 livestock factories, most of them dairies, have been built near the town of Hudson, Michigan. Large livestock operations that confine animals year-round are called Confined Animal Feeding Operations (CAFOs).Environmentally Concerned Citizens of South Central Michigan (ECCSCM) developed this website to provide information on the pollution and the damage CAFOs have caused in our community and its watersheds, and to promote Sustainable Alternatives (buy local food & pasture-based meat--see sources). We support vanguard, responsible agriculture, farming that looks ahead to the next generations, preserves biodiversity, raises animals in a healthy environment, does no harm to its neighbors, enhances the natural assets of living communities, and protects our natural resources -- air, soils, groundwater, streams, and lakes.

As family farmers and neighbors, we believe agriculture must take responsibility for its actions in rural communities. CAFOs have failed us. They have damaged our farming communities, degraded our natural resources, and polluted our watersheds.

CONFINED ANIMAL FEEDING OPERATIONS COST TAXPAYERS BILLIONS. The Union of Concerned Scientists calls for POLICIES THAT REDUCE CAFO SUBSIDIES AND ENCOURAGE MODERN, SUSTAINABLE MEAT, MILK AND EGG PRODUCTION. See "CAFOs Uncovered: The Untold Costs of Confined Animal Feeding Operations" for details of the policies that have allowed CAFOs to dominate U.S. meat and dairy production. "CAFOs aren't the natural result of agricultural progress, nor are they the result of rational planning or market forces," said Doug Gurian-Sherman, a senior scientist in UCS's Food and Environment Program and author of the report. "Ill-advised policies created them, and it will take new policies to replace them with more sustainable, environmentally friendly production methods."


Edited by kyle585 (01/29/10 11:07 AM)
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#1139734 --- 01/29/10 11:28 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Bottom line here is a news story like this brings awareness to an issue that many people are not aware of. I'm sure there are a lot of people who saw the ABC news that night and did not know what today's factory dairy farms are like. I've read a little bit about them and have heard but have not witnessed it or even saw a news story that showed today's modern dairy farm. I can't feel bad for the Willet Farm or any farm that may be made to feel uncomfortable by these reports.

Nothing is going to change overnight, if ever. Again, the issue here is over-population and too much consumption of meat/animal products. In order to meet the demand farms are going to be set up as factories that will produce the product in the most efficient, cost-saving way. People need to be aware, but Grey, if you don't want to be aware or you don't care, that is fine. But don't demean those of us who have concerns or want to bring more awareness to the issue. Don't keep insinuating that they don't exist or people are being over-sensitive or overly concerned about "cows".

No, I am not more concerned about a cow or even a dog who is mistreated (tail docking or what have you) over a starving child or a child in a burning building. I would save ANY child from a burning building before I would save an animal...even my own pet. But there is nothing wrong with people shedding light on animal rights and cruelty issues.

I think what bugs me the most about this is you first posted as if it was completely false because of what you have witnessed. Now you are changing your tune and saying, 'so what, that's the way it is. There are more important issues'. I don't care if you are not passionate about this or what you have done in the past (military etc.) it doesn't make you any more knowledgable in this discussion. For some reason this has touched a nerve with you and you don't like the truth, so you think you are going to talk down to those of us who have issues with it. You are reaching trying to make your point, but it's obviously not going to work on those of us who do care about this.

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#1139761 --- 01/29/10 11:57 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Animal Lover]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Sorry, Kyle. I forgot you know everything because you are Net-man! Did you know that Obama was not legally the president because he is not American? I read that on the internet (that I don't use). I bet you believe you save your children by not vaccinating them, as well.

Animal Lover, I am not arguing that these things should not be monitored or even that the "uncomfortable" feeling that the farms may feel is a bad thing (keeps them on their toes). I do KNOW that ABC (and every other major media service) is in it for the ratings and will at times go to whatever extremes they must to get the ratings. As such, everything they provide is taken with a grain of salt. I am not saying I don't watch, I just realize that the level of truth in the report is somewhere between 0% and 100% and I don't know exactly where it falls. I would hate to see a family ruined by a report from someone that certainly has an agenda (regardless of how appropriate that agenda may be).

Take, for example, the landfill discussions. If you had a "town meeting" about the landfill, both sides will provide experts. Both group's experts will provide facts, I have no doubt. What facts they provide and how they spin those facts will DIRECTLY relate to the side they are trying to support. Media is the same way. Do I believe some bad things have occured at that farm? Yes. Do I think they intentionally hurt the cattle? No. Do I think they could do better? Yes. Do I know for a fact what happens on the farm. Nope. And neither does anyone posting here. It is all opinion and all opinions are welcome (except, apparently, mine).

I have no doubt for your love of all creatures. I am just trying to balance the discussion. Remember the discussions about how the SPCA was out of control and animals were hurt because of their actions? I am sure both sides thought they were in the right. As a result, a very good organization which struggles to do more with less suffered (however slightly) from the comments of others.

Does that make sense? I am trying to say that in this particular case, I don't think either side is totally in the right and I don't think either side is totally in the wrong. Trust me, most people do not want to know how are food gets to the fridge. I have a couple of friends who are vegans as I said before. I respect that and their commitment to their beliefs. I, personally, could not make that commitment, but I understand it. Rigid belief that on certain items, there can be no difference of opinion is why we have had so many holy wars.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Dr. Lawrence J. Peter

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#1139769 --- 01/29/10 12:05 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Greymane sayd: "Do I think they intentionally hurt the cattle? No."


Better watch the Video....
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#1139771 --- 01/29/10 12:09 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
Greymane sayd: "Do I think they intentionally hurt the cattle? No."


Better watch the Video....


Alright, Lusi. You know I meant as a group, not a specific person. (Who, BTW, has been fired.)
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Dr. Lawrence J. Peter

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#1139777 --- 01/29/10 12:29 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
The one that was punching the cows and cracking them over the heads with the large monkey wrench. The one that laughed about how hard he hit the cows and he now thinks he will have arthritis in his hand from such powerful full out punches to the cows....that one
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#1139796 --- 01/29/10 01:12 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2351
Loc: Seneca Lake
Actually, tail docking (and ear cropping) is banned throughout Europe and many other countries.

As you guessed the AKC and many of the breed clubs oppose the ban, even though it is both painful and unnecessary.

Originally Posted By: Greymane

I would support a ban on tail docking for dogs. I have to wonder what the AKCs stand would be on that. Wouldn't it affect the "standards" for many of the breeds? I know we talked about the dog show earlier. I don't doubt that these people love their animals, but some of them just don't get it. The levels they go to in the name of competition is crazy. (It is much like some people are with their kids when it comes to sports.)


Edited by all seeing eye (01/29/10 01:13 PM)
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#1139801 --- 01/29/10 01:18 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
redcowman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 473
Loc: NOT THERE
OK people you have beat him up enough. Get as mad as you want, howl at the moon, whistle dixie. This is how its done other than the fool with the monkey wrench. I dont care who your great, great, half uncle on your step-mothers side was super farmer 4 million years ago. You really dont want to know where that stuff that sits on the store shelves comes from. Wake up. Horns are done, tails are done. The guy in the video is not very good at it and it can be done with alot,alot less pain. Any farmer in their right mind is going to tell you they fixed it to get you to leave them alone. Pick any farm and theres issues you dont ask for them, you dont want them. Just try your best to fix and move on. If you dont see a milking cow outside in a pasture its in the barn 24/7 365. most of the ones outside are heifers waiting to be mothers or dry cows. For those of you that are a little slow- Its like a taxi driver going out and sticking a knife in his tire. Car dont move NO MONEY. Cow dont move no money. Even you plant eaters out there may not really want to know where your food comes from. OK bring on the attack

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#1139808 --- 01/29/10 01:27 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: all seeing eye]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
And yet, they LOVE animals. I think if you asked the majority of the members, they would be against it. I think the whole physical doctoring, inbreeding and caging for travel is a bit ridiculous. It is about perspective.

Have you seen Avatar? The scene where the girl kills the wild dog(?) and talks about the sadness of taking the life. I think most would be surprised to find that many hunters feel the same way. They understand the complexity of population management and the value of all life. Very few things in life are black and white. (Of course, some hunters are just childish jerks that shoot anything and everything. Sad, but true.)

We could provide the most humane environment possible for all animals we intend to consume. We could also pay $50 per pound for ground beef as a result. (Have you ever had Kobe beef?) It is all about that fine balance. Until we reach Utopia, we can only strive for a practical balance of convenience and compassion. Most certainly, some changes are taking place already at this farm as a result of the attention. Baby steps, right?
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#1139812 --- 01/29/10 01:39 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
redcowman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 473
Loc: NOT THERE
Where did everyone go????????????

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#1139822 --- 01/29/10 01:51 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
redcowman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 473
Loc: NOT THERE
I guess no one wants to know where that cheap hamburger they sell at the store comes from.

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#1139864 --- 01/29/10 03:08 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: redcowman
I guess no one wants to know where that cheap hamburger they sell at the store comes from.


cowman, many of us know exactly where our meat comes from. I've been to a slaughterhouse and I saw the blood and guts on the floor. No, I didn't witness the actual killing but I know of the different methods. Don't talk down to those of us who want to eat meat but would hope there was a better way. And don't ignore the fact that the sadistic farm hand in those videos should be held accountable. Not only fired but charged with some sort of crime. Too damn bad if it makes the farm look bad. They would have let it continue if they hadn't been caught. That's what we are talking about here. And there is a lot of crap like this going on and if the farms know people are paying attention maybe more sadistic idiots will get fired.

I have family and friends who hunt deer, elk, moose, turkey, even wild boar. I've seen the deer hanging in trees and the pictures of the guys showing off their kill...holding up the heads to show off the rack. It doesn't bother me. But it does bother me to know that cows, yes the hambuger, steak and dairy products, that I enjoy eating, are being mistreated in the way they were in that video, and will continue to be mistreated because certain idiots think it is okay...because hey it's just a stupid animal and that's the way it is.

Again, don't talk down to those of us who get it but don't like it. In fact, I was just thinking if stories like this do upset people and they become vegans then we'll all be better off. Less animal waste going into the ground and water and healthier people. And I am willing to pay more for meat and dairy products if I can be assured they had a fairly decent life and weren't caged or beaten. I will eat less meat etc. It's a known fact that we consume way too much meat as it is. We eat too much in general...way more than we need to survive. There is no need for people to be eating huge steaks and prime ribs when it just turns to fat or we crap it out anyway.

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#1139876 --- 01/29/10 03:28 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Animal Lover]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Animal Lover
There is no need for people to be eating huge steaks and prime ribs when it just turns to fat or we crap it out anyway.
Health experts will tell you a daily serving of beef should be about the size of a deck of cards. i have seen guys eat a weeks worth of prime rib on a Saturday night.
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#1139877 --- 01/29/10 03:29 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Animal Lover]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Animal Lover
Too damn bad if it makes the farm look bad. They would have let it continue if they hadn't been caught. That's what we are talking about here. And there is a lot of crap like this going on and if the farms know people are paying attention maybe more sadistic idiots will get fired.
Exactly.
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#1139886 --- 01/29/10 03:53 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
redcowman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 473
Loc: NOT THERE
Finally a tree hugger with some stones.Thank you, I think you just like to talk about something you know nothing about. I also would hope that there was a better way. Did you get that part or do you need to have it repeated. If you take a look back i did address the hired hand. How do you know that they would have let it continue? (crystal ball) dont you think the owner would have stepped in when he found out. I would have and he would be lucky if being arrested was all that happened to him. I did not, again I did not say it was ok. I said that it happens. And to answer another statement you made. Who are you to tell the world or our state or county what people get to eat

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#1139892 --- 01/29/10 04:07 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
redcowman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 473
Loc: NOT THERE
Sorry it took so long to reply. I got tired of waiting. Come back, dont go away. This is a good one.

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#1139897 --- 01/29/10 04:17 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: redcowman
Finally a tree hugger with some stones.Thank you, I think you just like to talk about something you know nothing about.


Listen pal, I think that you are not far from those that we are posting about. I read these forums and I know who and what you are. I am not a tree hugger. I am a person, that has respect for the animals that I eat. I am a person that has a concern for people's health and concern for clean water.

Originally Posted By: redcowman
I also would hope that there was a better way. Did you get that part or do you need to have it repeated. If you take a look back i did address the hired hand. How do you know that they would have let it continue? (crystal ball) dont you think the owner would have stepped in when he found out. I would have and he would be lucky if being arrested was all that happened to him. I did not, again I did not say it was ok. I said that it happens.


Seriously, I am reading you but I am laughing, cause you are just that. LAUGHABLE. You are not a match for me or many of the people that post on these forums. Heck I wasn't even debating with you to begin with. I was speaking to Grey for the most part. And you somehow needed to jump in with the idea that people here care what you think. Believe me, most on here have no respect for your opinions. We got your number.

And as far as the owner stepping in when he found out, how long would it take? Surely others witnessed this but as you say that's the way it is so everything would stay status quo. Sometimes things need to be brought to light to make people wake up and do what is right.

Originally Posted By: redcowman
And to answer another statement you made. Who are you to tell the world or our state or county what people get to eat


Where did I tell ANYONE what they "get" to eat. I merely pointed out as a nation we consume way too much food that is not good for us, including meat. Everything in moderation can be good but eating HUGE steaks etc. is not good for anyone. Any doctor will tell you that. The obsession with over-eating is costing us a lot in many different ways. I won't take the time to explain it all to you because you won't get it. You are a waste of my time. Now go back to finding someone to sue.

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#1139899 --- 01/29/10 04:20 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Animal Lover]
redcowman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 473
Loc: NOT THERE
Wait dont go anywhere. Let me read all this so that I may reply

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#1139908 --- 01/29/10 04:38 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
redcowman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 473
Loc: NOT THERE
OK sorry, you have a little bit there.
#1 I am a ways away
#2 Im very happy that you respect the animals you eat. Im sure
they will be glad to know that. I dont think they will be
thanking you anytime soon.
#3 Peoples health and clean water have to do with a fool for
a hired hand?
#4 Grey had my support from afar
#5 Ya got my number, wow and I care what you think? Im just
trying to tell how it is.
#6 (READ) The guy with the monkey wrench is a fool
#7 I believe you wrote "No need for people to be eating huge
steak and prime rib.

I think that covers everything

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#1139911 --- 01/29/10 04:43 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
redcowman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 473
Loc: NOT THERE
Now dont get mad, lets break this down maybe I will learn something. Aside from the hired hand who needs to be shot, other than that pick something.

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#1139913 --- 01/29/10 04:46 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
redcowman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 473
Loc: NOT THERE
Come on its a forum, Ill be nice

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#1140077 --- 01/29/10 10:47 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
"#7 I believe you wrote "No need for people to be eating huge
steak and prime rib."

Your belief is correct. Now, are you going to answer AL's question?
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#1140155 --- 01/30/10 07:13 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: VM Smith]
redcowman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 473
Loc: NOT THERE
Sorry went to bed. The only question I see is how long it would take for the owner to step in. How am I to know? With 7000 head there has to be a vet there daily or close to it, you have milk inspector and why didnt the spy with the camera do anything? Hes got it on tape. Theres all the proof you need. Our was he too worried about his tape and not the animals. All Im saying you dont go shoot yourself in the foot. You dont go out and have to spend more money than you need to on vet bills. This was a younger heifer and even though the price of milk is way down these things are still very expensive. With a farm this size there should be a mgr. or foreman keeping tabs on the workers. There is not alot of money in farming. Its fast becoming one of those jobs that Americans dont want to do. Migrant workers are filling the spots more and more everyday and or the lower income classes that do have some sort to police record. (NOT ALL) spots but a good bunch of them. I hope I got the right question, if not let me know

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#1140237 --- 01/30/10 11:58 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
If anyone wants to talk to them first hand (as I did) I have their phone number - PM me and I'd pass it on.
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#1140240 --- 01/30/10 12:14 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Willet Dairy LP
379 State Route 34
Locke, NY 13092-3224

(315) 497-0723‎

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&...906844754876376
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#1140241 --- 01/30/10 12:17 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Oh yeah.....I got the phone number right into the milking barn...
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#1140320 --- 01/30/10 06:36 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
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Are you going to answer his question about where did he say anything about what people get to eat?
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#1140344 --- 01/30/10 07:16 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
tomwaits Offline
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Posts: 360
Loc: BetweenMud&FlintCreek
Willet Dairy LLC received payments totaling $1,252,366 from 1995 through 2006

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/persondetail.php?custnumber=010100160
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Willet Dairy LP
379 State Route 34
Locke, NY 13092-3224

(315) 497-0723‎

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&...906844754876376

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#1140547 --- 01/31/10 07:22 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: tomwaits]
redcowman Offline
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Ok, I thought I did. I think what your looking for is in #7 if not, lets break it down. Tell me what you want to know and if I know, Ill try and answer

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#1140639 --- 01/31/10 11:34 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: VM Smith]
Animal Lover Offline
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Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Are you going to answer his question about where did he say anything about what people get to eat?


I have no further comment at this time in regard to the actual discussion but once again I feel I need to let people know, I'm a she, not a he.

I know it really doesn't matter but I can't keep posting under an assumed identity of a male. I like being seen as a strong, opinionated female...because that's what I am. \:\)

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#1140705 --- 01/31/10 02:50 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Animal Lover]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Question:

Why do they drag the newly born calfs away from the mothers?

Wouldn't it be easier to have the mother feed the calf than the operation feed the newly born?
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#1140855 --- 01/31/10 06:34 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
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Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
Question:

Why do they drag the newly born calfs away from the mothers?

Wouldn't it be easier to have the mother feed the calf than the operation feed the newly born?
redcowman explained this in the third post.

Calves are taken away from their mothers so that the farmer can control what and when they eat also their health. Not all mother cows are nice when it comes time to tend to a sick calf. After the mother has the calf its her peak milk production time. After a few days shes ready to go. Way too much milk for a calf in dairy cows.

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#1140893 --- 01/31/10 07:36 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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thanks. missed that one.
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#1140897 --- 01/31/10 07:43 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
all seeing eye Offline
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Loc: Seneca Lake
Let me translate, the calf is dragged away so that the dairy gets the peak milk production, not the calf. Right?

Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
Question:

Why do they drag the newly born calfs away from the mothers?

Wouldn't it be easier to have the mother feed the calf than the operation feed the newly born?
redcowman explained this in the third post.

Calves are taken away from their mothers so that the farmer can control what and when they eat also their health. Not all mother cows are nice when it comes time to tend to a sick calf. After the mother has the calf its her peak milk production time. After a few days shes ready to go. Way too much milk for a calf in dairy cows.
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#1140899 --- 01/31/10 07:52 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: all seeing eye]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Either way, I don't like it at all.
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#1141082 --- 02/01/10 08:21 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
redcowman Offline
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OK, the calf is taken away from its mother for a couple of reasons. First yes, milk production. Before the calf is born the mother builts up whats called colostrom in her milk. This colostrom it vital to the calfs health, it jump starts its imune system. No colostrom, your just waiting for it to die. Colostrom is at its peak, prime, whatever, right when the calf is born and fades away after a few days. The calf MUST have this as soon as possible, ASAP. Some mothers are lazy and its done when she gets around to it or not done at all(mother nature.)The calves are taken away to insure the right amount is given. The cow is milked out and the calf is fed by the farmer. For the few days the milk is thrown away(left overs)till the colostrom is out of her system. Then she goes to milking full time shes at her peak. In dairy cows that is way too much milk for a calf now you get to deal with scours (diarrhea)Not pretty. The calf will actually sh-- itself to death. Dehydration more or less. So the calf is taken away for the health of the calf for the farmer to monitor its diet,water ,grain, health. Any health issues the farmer can deal with without momma standing there ready to kick his a--. The calf is dragged away because the calf can weight from 60+ to over 120+ lbs wet, slimey, slippery. You are going to drop it. They dont always hold still and the calves are flexible like babies. If you noticed the calving area is loaded with straw and the farmer is on the other side of the calf (calf in the middle) cow will not rush her own calf. Most of the time. If a calf is born premature as in the video and out in the free stall area you run the risk of an infection in the navel area or it getting stepped on. Farmers have records as to when each cow should calve and when it was bred along with a bunch of other stuff. Calves are VITAL to a farm its the entire future of that farm. Anything and everything is done to keep that calf alive. Also a calf that trusts people will be alot more gentle when dealing with people in the future. Per the heifer in the video that got smacked by the fool. If not worked with she turns into a wild child. You dont want that.

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#1141135 --- 02/01/10 10:22 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: redcowman]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Well, I can understand some of that....

Maybe I am too much of an animal purist in wanting nature to take care of itself....

Seeing the babies dragged away by thier legs wasn't a pretty sight...

I really am rethinking ever ordering veal again....
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#1141149 --- 02/01/10 10:38 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: tomwaits]
Greymane Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: tomwaits
Willet Dairy LLC received payments totaling $1,252,366 from 1995 through 2006

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/persondetail.php?custnumber=010100160
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Willet Dairy LP
379 State Route 34
Locke, NY 13092-3224

(315) 497-0723‎

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&...906844754876376


Just one of many farms that received LARGE sums of money during the last decade or two.
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#1141198 --- 02/01/10 11:49 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: tomwaits
Willet Dairy LLC received payments totaling $1,252,366 from 1995 through 2006

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/persondetail.php?custnumber=010100160
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Willet Dairy LP
379 State Route 34
Locke, NY 13092-3224

(315) 497-0723‎

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&...906844754876376
Just one of many farms that received LARGE sums of money during the last decade or two.
True and I don't see why any of them should have received any tax dollars.
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#1141200 --- 02/01/10 11:50 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
I really am rethinking ever ordering veal again....


I walked into a large barn once full of hundreds of veal calves in such small pens they could hardly move. I have not ate veal since.
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#1141201 --- 02/01/10 11:53 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Greymane Offline
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I wish I lived closer to my original home. We used to always get our beef and pork from family. No questions about the source then.
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#1141208 --- 02/01/10 12:15 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
I wish I lived closer to my original home. We used to always get our beef and pork from family. No questions about the source then.
Every day there are fewer and fewer people in America that can do that. That is why we need some fairly stringent controls on cattle/hog/chicken farms.
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#1141233 --- 02/01/10 01:19 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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When you really think about it, watch it and feel it first hand, it is a wonder that all people are not vegans...
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#1141336 --- 02/01/10 06:41 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
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Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
When you really think about it, watch it and feel it first hand, it is a wonder that all people are not vegans...
Hah, I worked at Carrolls in Auburn when I went to college there. They swatted flies with the spatulas they flipped burgers with. If you knew the ins and outs of every process, you would not eat anything.

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#1141571 --- 02/02/10 08:49 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Greymane Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
When you really think about it, watch it and feel it first hand, it is a wonder that all people are not vegans...


I know this is going to sound like I am way over the edge, but, just for arguement's sake, do we really have any knowledge that the trauma caused by eating plants is any less significant than that caused by eating meat? Going back to very early times, many groups have believed that the essence of all living things is equal. Plant, mammal, insect. All living things. As such, where do you draw the line? Just a thought.
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#1141584 --- 02/02/10 09:06 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
When you really think about it, watch it and feel it first hand, it is a wonder that all people are not vegans...

I know this is going to sound like I am way over the edge, but, just for arguement's sake, do we really have any knowledge that the trauma caused by eating plants is any less significant than that caused by eating meat?
I never heard a plant cry out in pain like I have an animal.

Quote:
Going back to very early times, many groups have believed that the essence of all living things is equal.
In those early times, they also believed the earth was flat.

Quote:
Plant, mammal, insect. All living things. As such, where do you draw the line? Just a thought.
I draw the line at animals. How about you?
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#1141604 --- 02/02/10 09:59 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Greymane Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
When you really think about it, watch it and feel it first hand, it is a wonder that all people are not vegans...

I know this is going to sound like I am way over the edge, but, just for arguement's sake, do we really have any knowledge that the trauma caused by eating plants is any less significant than that caused by eating meat?
I never heard a plant cry out in pain like I have an animal.



I have never heard it, therefore, as I am omnipotent, it has never occured.

Quote:
Quote:
Going back to very early times, many groups have believed that the essence of all living things is equal.
In those early times, they also believed the earth was flat.


Because we are more educated (in most cases), please do not ever assume we are more enlightened.

Quote:
Quote:
Plant, mammal, insect. All living things. As such, where do you draw the line? Just a thought.
I draw the line at animals. How about you?


I personally believe that animals are here for our use. As are plants. As are the minerals of the Earth. I don't think one should be abused any more than any of the others. Regardless, we abuse all on a regular basis because of our ignornace, haste and laziness. I strive to do the best I can.
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#1143350 --- 02/05/10 11:05 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
bco Offline
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Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 3
Loc: New York
I think there are a number of things that need to be clarified. 1. Cows that are routinely mistreated would not be productive or profitable, so any farm that allowed such treatment would put itself at a severe disadvantage. I'm sure the management at Willet does not condone such treatment and would discipline any employees caught abusing animals.
2. An animal that is not used to being tied with a halter will struggle and bawl just because she doesn't like being tied up. Cows need to be restrained to perform various treatments such as vaccinations, hoof trimming, and, yes, dehorning, which is an essential procedure. Any vet who has had to sew up a laceration caused by one cow goring another will tell you that.
3. While pasturing cattle is certainly one good way of caring for them, cattle who live in confinement systems enjoy some advantages: climate controlled environment, ready access to nutritionally balanced feed and water at all times, freedom from flies and other parasites that attack cows on pasture. Let's face it: cows on pasture eat grass that other cows have pooped on.
4. Holstein dairy calves weigh between 80 and 120 pounds at birth. Employees cannot be expected to lift and carry them. It does not hurt a calf to be pulled to the side of the pen by one leg. A newborn calf is removed from the mother after she has licked it off, so that humans can ensure that the calf receives colostrum (the first milk which is essential to provide immunity in the first two weeks of life while the calf's immune system is still maturing). Some cows are good mothers, others are not. I have seen a cow kill her newborn calf by stepping on it or lying on it, and not all cows will allow their calves to nurse.

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#1143757 --- 02/07/10 07:23 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: bco]
dottiehuckle Offline
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We draw the line as to living things with brains. Animals can think and therefore feel pain, it's been shown that plants can not think so no pain.
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#1143781 --- 02/07/10 07:50 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal right [Re: dottiehuckle]
dummy2 Offline
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Can you feel pain Dottie?
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#1144701 --- 02/09/10 12:20 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: dottiehuckle]
Greymane Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: dottiehuckle
We draw the line as to living things with brains. Animals can think and therefore feel pain, it's been shown that plants can not think so no pain.


To our level of understanding. Of course, for most of our existence, we thought the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. I am sure the plants are sitting there wondering when we will get it.
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#1144706 --- 02/09/10 12:26 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Registered: 11/16/01
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At some level even plant material must experience loss of existance. This is an interesting quandry. To eat or not to eat.
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#1144719 --- 02/09/10 12:38 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Greymane Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
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Loc: Central PA
I think I will turn canibal. Then I will only be hurting those that destroy all around them.
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#1144733 --- 02/09/10 01:04 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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good point. only destroy the destroyers...interesting..
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