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#1133219 --- 01/15/10 12:42 AM Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Average Joeeeee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/08
Posts: 327
Loc: Waterfalls NY
NEW YORK -- A brighter future, the 51st state, that's what State Senator Mike Nozzolio is pitching to New Yorkers. The goal is to find out if you would support the idea of upstate New York breaking away from downstate to become an independent state.

"I don't think it will work, because New York City would eventually collapse on itself, in a much larger tax need being spread across the same amount of people, says Jonathan Sandgarten.

Kimberly Fischmann of Fayetteville says it would be a good idea. "Our economy, jobs, in Upstate, businesses and corporations are closing around here. I think people are moving because the economy is down and it would benefit our local people more," says Fischmann.

In his article, Senator Nozzolio says, "...a separate upstate New York, creating the 51st state, would allow our region to shed the detrimental laws, regulations and taxes that inhibit development so that we can re-emerge as a leader in job growth and economic opportunity..."

The proposal to even ask the question would still have to pass the State Legislature to even be on a ballot. It would then be up to individual counties to decide if they would want to include it on the balllot during the next election cycle.

Gary Sega, of Syracuse, says, "Waste of time. Not gonna happen. Why even bother with it? There's bigger issues in this state. Our budget, for instance. There's better things to do."
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#1133221 --- 01/15/10 01:42 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Average Joeeeee]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Article? What article? How about the article, or a link, or a clue as to how to find it?
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#1133232 --- 01/15/10 03:18 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: VM Smith]
Ranger Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
Senator hopes to make upstate the 51st state
By Joe Roetz
Thursday, January 14, 2010 at 10:50 p.m.
Last updated: Thursday, January 14, 2010


NEW YORK -- A brighter future, the 51st state, that's what State Senator Mike Nozzolio is pitching to New Yorkers. The goal is to find out if you would support the idea of upstate New York breaking away from downstate to become an independent state.

"I don't think it will work, because New York City would eventually collapse on itself, in a much larger tax need being spread across the same amount of people, says Jonathan Sandgarten.

Kimberly Fischmann of Fayetteville says it would be a good idea. "Our economy, jobs, in Upstate, businesses and corporations are closing around here. I think people are moving because the economy is down and it would benefit our local people more," says Fischmann.

In his article, Senator Nozzolio says, "...a separate upstate New York, creating the 51st state, would allow our region to shed the detrimental laws, regulations and taxes that inhibit development so that we can re-emerge as a leader in job growth and economic opportunity..."

The proposal to even ask the question would still have to pass the State Legislature to even be on a ballot. It would then be up to individual counties to decide if they would want to include it on the balllot during the next election cycle.

Gary Sega, of Syracuse, says, "Waste of time. Not gonna happen. Why even bother with it? There's bigger issues in this state. Our budget, for instance. There's better things to do."


that's basically all there is to the article from the front page of FL1
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#1133272 --- 01/15/10 07:17 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: VM Smith]
Jelloshot Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 11043
Loc: Right behind you.
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Article? What article? How about the article, or a link, or a clue as to how to find it?


Article

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#1133278 --- 01/15/10 08:04 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Jelloshot]
AMP130 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 156
Loc: new york
Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard come out of anyone's mouth. But we just keep putting him back in office

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#1133280 --- 01/15/10 08:12 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: AMP130]
Average Joeeeee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/08
Posts: 327
Loc: Waterfalls NY
Sen. Nozzolio backs splitting up state
By Robert Harding / The Citizen

Friday, January 15, 2010 12:01 AM EST

Supporters of a bill in both houses of the state Legislature are hoping to get your opinions on New York being divided into two states.
The legislation would put a question on the ballot in November asking voters, “Do you support the division of New York into two separate states?”

It is sponsored in the Assembly by Assemblyman Jim Bacalles, R-Corning, and in the Senate by Sen. Joe Robach, R-Greece.

One local legislator is on board with the effort. Sen. Michael Nozzolio, R-Fayette, is a cosponsor of the Senate bill. In a column he wrote Thursday titled, “A Brighter Future: The 51st State,” Nozzolio criticizes downstate and New York City elected officials for upstate's economic woes and believes separation from the state's downstate elements would lead to prosperity for the upstate region.

“The distinct political and social needs of upstate have been virtually ignored in favor of policies that strictly favor New York City,” he wrote. “Now every New York state legislative leader is from New York City, including the governor, attorney general, comptroller and all other leaders in New York state government.”

Nozzolio criticized what he called the “tax and spend attitude” of downstate leaders.

The increased taxes and larger fees in last year's budget disproportionately affected upstate, he argued.

“Every day we can see examples of the downstate burden on our lives,” he said. “Nearly 15 years ago, Interstate 90 was fully paid for and yet we continue to pay tolls to drive on it. And why? So that we can continue to pump money into New York state's bloated general fund. Laws that force our cities and towns to use expensive labor and multiple contractors for new projects only continue to burden our taxpayers with skyrocketing costs.”

Assembly Minority Leader Brian Kolb, R-Canandaigua, said this is an issue he hears a lot about and believes it is worth looking into.

“We think the proposal to put this question on the ballot for public comment is a good idea,” he said. “We are very interested to hear what New Yorkers have to say on the matter.”

Reports conducted by the Center for Governmental Research in Rochester may contradict Nozzolio. CGR has found New York City to be a net contributor. On average, CGR says, New York City sends $5 billion more to state government than it receives in return.

Nozzolio countered what the CGR reports, by saying the money is meant to “subsidize the massive mandates that they place on our upstate regions.”

Austin Shafran, spokesman for the state Senate Democrats, took issue with Nozzolio's suggestion and believes the blame for upstate New York's economic downfall lies with past Republican Senate majorities, not with current leadership.

“For 40 years, instead of making responsible choices, the Republican Senate spent, borrowed and taxed New York into a crisis,” he said. “And now, rather than offer responsible solutions to very real problems, they continue to offer phony fixes and more of the same old pass the buck politics. The Republicans claim New Yorkers are dissatisfied with a state government controlled by one party from one region, but when the Republicans ran the Senate over the past 40 years, they ran upstate New York into the ground.”

According to Article IV of the U.S. Constitution, upstate New York could secede, but would need approval from the state Legislature and Congress. The last state to be formed as result of secession from another state is West Virginia, which split from Virginia in the Civil War era.

Online producer Robert Harding can be reached at 253-5311, ext. 220 or robert.harding@lee.net
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#1133281 --- 01/15/10 08:13 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: AMP130]
Code Red Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 6685
Loc: Out of my mind....
We may have to be careful what we wish for. Has anybody considered how much of a tax base, NYC contributes to the State? It would seem that with all the stock market trades, and the large garment district, that they collect a awful lot of sales tax. Just my guess but I would think they contribute a large portion of New Yorks tax revenues.

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#1133283 --- 01/15/10 08:16 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Code Red]
Average Joeeeee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/08
Posts: 327
Loc: Waterfalls NY
Think about how much of our tax dollars go to NYC to bail them out every year.
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#1133285 --- 01/15/10 08:20 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Average Joeeeee]
Average Joeeeee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/08
Posts: 327
Loc: Waterfalls NY
Plus, how much weight their votes carry due to population that effect upstate residents.
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#1133287 --- 01/15/10 08:24 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Code Red]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Originally Posted By: Code Red
We may have to be careful what we wish for. Has anybody considered how much of a tax base, NYC contributes to the State? It would seem that with all the stock market trades, and the large garment district, that they collect a awful lot of sales tax. Just my guess but I would think they contribute a large portion of New Yorks tax revenues.


Clearly, before the idea can even seriously be considered a study needs to be done to determine what happens with the differences in tax bases and if Upstate could be not only sustainable but able to grow. Wimpering by a Senator about how we need to the seperated from evil downstate, is an attempt to set emotions into full swing...they need to do the work and see how it would pan out...jmo
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#1133288 --- 01/15/10 08:25 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Average Joeeeee]
Code Red Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 6685
Loc: Out of my mind....
Look at sales tax collected by region in New York State. I tried to Cut and Paste but I couldn't. It really showed that upstate New York didn't contribute anywhere near a compairable percentage. Does this large amount of tax they do raise for the state, off set what they recieve in state aid? Just one thing to look at before we get the saws out and start cutting off the big city.

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#1133289 --- 01/15/10 08:26 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Senecamom]
Average Joeeeee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/08
Posts: 327
Loc: Waterfalls NY
Very good point Senecamom. I am all for that!
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#1133305 --- 01/15/10 08:48 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Average Joeeeee]
eagleman13148 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 102
Loc: sfalls
The Commitee is led by entire Seneca Falls Villiage Board...with the experience they have with Screwing the Towns people its a safe bet they will screw NY State and NY City will prevail.

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#1133311 --- 01/15/10 08:54 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: eagleman13148]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
As long as Paterson, Schumer and Gillibrand stay downstate.
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#1133379 --- 01/15/10 11:38 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Taxpayer14456]
Oldgzr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: NY
That would be a great way of us getting rid of Patterson. He could go down to be Governor of the new state of New York City and we could put someone in Albany more in tune to the upstate voters. Like that's ever going to happen, but we can still dream.

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#1133380 --- 01/15/10 11:39 AM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Oldgzr]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
It's ok to dream.
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Maybe we should chug on over to mamby pamby land...

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#1133391 --- 01/15/10 12:29 PM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Average Joeeeee]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: Average Joeeeee

In his article, Senator Nozzolio says, "...a separate upstate New York, creating the 51st state, would allow our region to shed the detrimental laws, regulations and taxes that inhibit development so that we can re-emerge as a leader in job growth and economic opportunity..."better things to do."


A 51st state, in this politically corrupt system, would just create more chaos. Before even considering this possibility, we need to first clean the existing political house . We need to "shed" the “business as usual politician” before we can move forward. Who wants the same old crap with a 51st state? Future Governor Nozzollio?

This will never happen. Mike just needs to get his name "out there" again in an attempt to garner support from those of us, who have become disillusioned with his representation. IMO . . . just another career politician. Just another photo opp.
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#1133395 --- 01/15/10 12:32 PM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Senecamom]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Originally Posted By: Senecamom
Originally Posted By: Code Red
We may have to be careful what we wish for. Has anybody considered how much of a tax base, NYC contributes to the State? It would seem that with all the stock market trades, and the large garment district, that they collect a awful lot of sales tax. Just my guess but I would think they contribute a large portion of New Yorks tax revenues.


Clearly, before the idea can even seriously be considered a study needs to be done to determine what happens with the differences in tax bases and if Upstate could be not only sustainable but able to grow. Wimpering by a Senator about how we need to the seperated from evil downstate, is an attempt to set emotions into full swing...they need to do the work and see how it would pan out...jmo


Just another emotional press release on something NOZZOLIO knows he can do NOTHING about.

Showing how "hard" he is working and all the other baloney he spews.

It's all he has done is carry PORK BARRELL money back into the district, held a plethora of PRESS and PHOTO Opportunity sessions.

He also has got his name on a Library in his hometown and is a master at sending out requests for campaign contributions....
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#1133397 --- 01/15/10 12:36 PM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Jelloshot]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
TY.
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#1133402 --- 01/15/10 12:46 PM Re: Go For it Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: VM Smith]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
With regard to sales tax, the stock transactions (although EXECUTED on Wall St) are TRANSACTED at brokerages all over th country, hence the distribution of the taxes. Also, the garment transactions are handled in much the same way. The garments are not actually produced in NYC (too expensive for labor). They are produced largely in rural America (at least the few we do produce).

When you consider the costs of running the city, think about things like $1B for stadiums, bridges, the concentration of police / fire / EMS, welfare rates, etc. Then, consider the fact that we can put a new road across an entire county for what it costs to build one mile of road in the city (a logistical nightmare).
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