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#1133209 --- 01/14/10 10:47 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Thanks. I'd found that, but thought it just mentioned that the board had changed the code, so I didn't go far enough. I just skimmed it, and couldn't find anything about this situation.
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#1133216 --- 01/15/10 12:11 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: VM Smith]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Carl Same graduated from Mynderse Academy in 1984 and attended the State University College at Delhi to study hotel and restaurant management.

He worked at Disney World and at several other hotels and restaurants in Florida; Atlanta, Ga.; San Francisco; and Syracuse; and currently works at the Red Dove Restaurant in Geneva.


Oh Well! at least all the tables and desks will have fresh linens and the department silverware will be polished.


BTW - Is the Young (Ted's Daughter) and the Cramer (Anne's Daughter) still working in that office? I thought they were around only until the new voting machines were put in place.

Is this another case of a "temp job" turning into "Permanent" jobs?
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#1133275 --- 01/15/10 07:45 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: VM Smith]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Firing's not the main issue, ghosts; hiring is.



Yes, I know. I thought that I stated that pretty clearly in my other multiple postings on this thread.


Edited by Ghosts (01/15/10 08:01 AM)
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#1133279 --- 01/15/10 08:09 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Bottom Line, it's wrong!!!

"Section 73, subdivision 14 of New York's public officers law, adopted in March 2007, reads, in part: "No statewide elected official, state officer or employee, member of the Legislature or legislative employee may participate in any decision to hire, promote, discipline or discharge a relative for any compensated position at, for, or within any state agency, public authority, or the Legislature."
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#1133306 --- 01/15/10 08:49 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Senecamom]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
I was going to shoot off an email to the Seneca County Ethics Advisory Board, but it may be fruitless. Here's why:

Board of Supervisors

Committees:

BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
2009 STANDING COMMITTEES

COMMITTEE NO. 2 – PERSONNEL & TECHNOLOGY (Same, Chair; Reynolds, Vice-Chair, Westfall, Davidson, Barto) - Responsible for Personnel Department, civil service, employee contracts, employee salaries and benefits, employee relations, and affirmative action program. Responsible for computers and computer related equipment, AS400, electronic communications including telephones and cellular phones and the Information Technology Department

COMMITTEE NO. 3 - GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS (Amidon, Chair; Hayssen, Vice-Chair, Same, Westfall, Mooney) - Responsible for County Clerk, Board of Elections, Courts, Central Services, Records Management, County rules and order of business, ethics, legislative proposals and reviews, County Historian, County Manager, Clerk of the Board, Supervisors' expenses, Purchasing, County Law Department, and Weights and Measures

I'm still wading through the Ethics Code - yes,there is a board so there must be a code to advise upon:


Section Seven. Ethics Advisory Board

A. Membership. The members of the Board of Supervisor’s Personnel Committee, as appointed by the Chair of the Board of Supervisors, shall serve as the County’s ethics advisory board during their appointment to the personnel committee. The Chair of the Personnel Committee, or his or her designee, shall serve as the Chair of the Ethics Advisory Board. In the event that a quorum can not be had due to the disqualification of a board member, the Chair of the Board of Supervisors may sit as a voting member of the Ethics Advisory Board.

B. Quorum. One more than half of members of the Ethics Advisory Board shall constitute a quorum, with the vote of a majority members being required for action by the Board.

C. Procedure.
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#1133312 --- 01/15/10 08:57 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Ghosts]
Senecamom Offline
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Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
At the recent BOS meeting the Chair Lafler switched around some of the committee appointments...just an FYI.
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#1133317 --- 01/15/10 09:02 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Senecamom]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: Senecamom
At the recent BOS meeting the Chair Lafler switched around some of the committee appointments...just an FYI.


Thanks. Since their official website stated 2009 and seeing that we're only a couple of weeks into the new year, I assumed (yeah, I know) that it would be correct. Well, it justs goes to show that they are "Johnny on the Spot" with keeping us all up-to-date and informed. I guess I will try to locate the recent minutes to determine board memberships as of the last meeting . . . as if that will change anything.
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#1133318 --- 01/15/10 09:03 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Ghosts]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Margaret Lei would have that info.
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#1133331 --- 01/15/10 09:36 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Senecamom]
Footstepsabove Offline
Member

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 414
Unfortunately, what Mrs. Same has done is "legal" in terms of whether or not she can in fact make the appointment. Is it ethical? Not really. Does it "look bad." Yep. Were there other Democrats who could have been appointed who are not related in any way to anyone on the Democratic Committee? Absolutely! Could they be just as good at the job as Ruth and Pete Same's son? Of course.

The issue now becomes this - what is the Democratic Committee going to do about this? THEY have the power to "recommend" and put forth a candidate for the position of Elections Commissioner representing the Democratic party. When Ruth Same's term of office is up, THEY can recommend someone else to fill that position, and the County BOS would then have the ability to approve that appointment. It would be rare for the BOS not to approve an appointment recommended by the party Committee for either the Republicans or Democrats.

Given Mrs. Same's appointment of her son as her Deputy at a fairly decent salary with apparently no input from the Democratic Committee (if I understand how she made the appointment from the news reports), and given that this action is arguably a poor reflection on the Democratic Party organization in Seneca County, the onus is now on the Democratic Party Committee to take some kind of action that will reflect an ethical resolution to the situation.

Mrs. Same's position as Elections Commissioner is not civil service or elected, but she does have a term of office. So, next time she is up for reappointment, perhaps the Democratic Committee can reach outside its limited internal and familial ranks and find a good Seneca County Democrat who could serve in that capacity.

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#1133347 --- 01/15/10 10:20 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Footstepsabove]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: Footstepsabove
Unfortunately, what Mrs. Same has done is "legal" in terms of whether or not she can in fact make the appointment. Is it ethical? Not really. Does it "look bad." Yep. Were there other Democrats who could have been appointed who are not related in any way to anyone on the Democratic Committee? Absolutely! Could they be just as good at the job as Ruth and Pete Same's son? Of course.

The issue now becomes this - what is the Democratic Committee going to do about this? THEY have the power to "recommend" and put forth a candidate for the position of Elections Commissioner representing the Democratic party. When Ruth Same's term of office is up, THEY can recommend someone else to fill that position, and the County BOS would then have the ability to approve that appointment. It would be rare for the BOS not to approve an appointment recommended by the party Committee for either the Republicans or Democrats.

Given Mrs. Same's appointment of her son as her Deputy at a fairly decent salary with apparently no input from the Democratic Committee (if I understand how she made the appointment from the news reports), and given that this action is arguably a poor reflection on the Democratic Party organization in Seneca County, the onus is now on the Democratic Party Committee to take some kind of action that will reflect an ethical resolution to the situation.

Mrs. Same's position as Elections Commissioner is not civil service or elected, but she does have a term of office. So, next time she is up for reappointment, perhaps the Democratic Committee can reach outside its limited internal and familial ranks and find a good Seneca County Democrat who could serve in that capacity.



Totally agree. I have NO personal animus against anyone in the family. Like many others, I am just fed up with the way that some can play the system. It's wrong.

Besides the laws, hopefully they will all get familiar with the following:

Running a Local Municipal Ethics Board: Glossary of Municipal Ethics Terms

By Steven G. Leventhal

http://www.nysba.org/Content/NavigationM...uniLawSpr06.pdf

Some Excerpts:

Board of Ethics 5
Municipal board established to administer the local government ethics program by providing training and confidential ethics advice to municipal officers and employees, investigating complaints, imposing sanctions, and administering the annual financial disclosure program.

Code of Ethics 6
Standards of conduct set forth in Article 18 of the General Municipal Law, and in laws adopted by municipalities in local laws (in counties, cities, towns or villages) or in resolutions (in other municipalities). Intended to foster integrity in government, promote public confidence, and help municipal officers and employees to discharge their official duties without fear of unwarranted accusations of unethical conduct.

Recusal

Abstention from deliberating, deciding, or participating in an official matter in which the municipal officer or employee may have a conflict of interest. An abstention from voting will normally function as a “nay” vote since under New York law a municipal body must usually take action by an affirmative vote of a majority of the entire body, including absent members, abstentions, and vacancies.19

Relative 20
A spouse, child, step-child, sibling, or parent of the municipal officer or employee, or a person claimed as a dependent on his or her latest individual state income tax return.

Sanctions
The penalties that a board of ethics may be authorized to impose upon a municipal officer or employee, or other individual or firm, upon a finding that the code of ethics was violated, including fines, restitution, disgorgement of profits, or debarment from doing further business with the municipality.
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#1133353 --- 01/15/10 10:47 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Originally Posted By: GiGi
Yes, I agree to a point. But these are people we know. These aren't stupid, ignorant, uneducated or unprofessional people at all. We need to deal with the reality of that, too. Is the debated harm being done here... real or perceived?



So, in a nutshell, you support nepotism and selective morality and selective ethics....
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#1133355 --- 01/15/10 10:53 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
QUOTE --Mrs. Same's position as Elections Commissioner is not civil service or elected, but she does have a term of office. So, next time she is up for reappointment, perhaps the Democratic Committee can reach outside its limited internal and familial ranks and find a good Seneca County Democrat who could serve in that capacity.
_______________________________________________________________


That won't happen - she said she is retiring next year at 65 years old. She will not see another re-appointment request for herself.

Funny how this appointment of her son, CARL, came after the BOS meeting on Tuesday.

This is a DOUBLE - BANGER for the SAME family. Son gets Mothers appointment, mother retires 1 year later, Son gets put up for appointment...BAM - another whole generation of SAME RULE.....

I hope you DEMOCRATS are happy being cut out of any discussion or any jobs by just a few on the Committee.....

If it doesn't suit Ted Young, Ruth and Pete Same and Sue Sauvageau then it doesn't get support or happen.
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#1133369 --- 01/15/10 11:15 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer

This is a DOUBLE - BANGER for the SAME family. Son gets Mothers appointment, mother retires 1 year later, Son gets put up for appointment...BAM - another whole generation of SAME RULE.....


You are so astute. Oh, now I see the BIG picture! Setting up for future SAME-O, SAME-0. Keeping up the Family Business . . . assuring the Family Legacy. Seneca County may as well operate like the local hardware store (nothing against the way they operate . . . great family owned business.)
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#1133373 --- 01/15/10 11:19 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Senecamom]
Victoria Offline
Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 37
Originally Posted By: Senecamom
At the recent BOS meeting the Chair Lafler switched around some of the committee appointments...just an FYI.


Same is still the chair of the personnel committee for 2010. It was in the paper this week (Between the Lakes). Just the thing to help grease the wheels for his son's coronation.

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#1133383 --- 01/15/10 11:47 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Victoria]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: Victoria
Same is still the chair of the personnel committee for 2010. It was in the paper this week (Between the Lakes). Just the thing to help grease the wheels for his son's coronation.


Let's enjoy our royal family, Seneca County. That seems to be the norm for politics . . . grab as much power as you can and hold onto it as long as possible. Long live the King and Queen!
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#1133384 --- 01/15/10 11:51 AM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Ghosts]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Oops . . . forgot to Congrat Prince Carl.
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#1133388 --- 01/15/10 12:22 PM Re: Nepotism and Dynasty at the Elections Office? [Re: Ghosts]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: Ghosts
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Firing's not the main issue, ghosts; hiring is.



Yes, I know. I thought that I stated that pretty clearly in my other multiple postings on this thread.


I know you did. I'm just saying that whether it's hard to fire a relative is really a small issue, in an ethical sense, compared to possible favoritism in hiring.

Not vanishingly small, though. How do you like my title change?
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1133401 --- 01/15/10 12:45 PM Re: Nepotism and Dynasty at the Elections Office? [Re: VM Smith]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
How do you like my title change?


Title change? Help me out here. Did ya get a promotion or something?

Although I don’t agree with them 100%, I do enjoy your changing “Signatures.” I especially like your current signature. Personally, I have others that I can relate to for my own personal Signature, but this one seems suitable for me in this place in time.


Edited by Ghosts (01/15/10 01:10 PM)
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#1133405 --- 01/15/10 01:07 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
oldmedic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 825
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
QUOTE --Mrs. Same's position as Elections Commissioner is not civil service or elected, but she does have a term of office. So, next time she is up for reappointment, perhaps the Democratic Committee can reach outside its limited internal and familial ranks and find a good Seneca County Democrat who could serve in that capacity.
_______________________________________________________________


That won't happen - she said she is retiring next year at 65 years old. She will not see another re-appointment request for herself.

Funny how this appointment of her son, CARL, came after the BOS meeting on Tuesday.

This is a DOUBLE - BANGER for the SAME family. Son gets Mothers appointment, mother retires 1 year later, Son gets put up for appointment...BAM - another whole generation of SAME RULE.....

I hope you DEMOCRATS are happy being cut out of any discussion or any jobs by just a few on the Committee.....

If it doesn't suit Ted Young, Ruth and Pete Same and Sue Sauvageau then it doesn't get support or happen.

NOT HAPPY AT ALL!!
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#1133408 --- 01/15/10 01:17 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: oldmedic]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: oldmedic

NOT HAPPY AT ALL!!


Okay, we're mostly ALL with/behind you . . . D & R's alike (Yes, I have freinds from both sides.) Whatcha gonna do?
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