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#1133172 --- 01/14/10 08:43 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
quote=GiGi]If nepotism is so bad, then why do we have principals, superintendents, bus drivers, custodians, office workers and teachers related to each other and working at the schools? Gee, the schools seem to run just fine.

I don't think the schools are run so well. When budget cuts and staff are on the chopping block, then new money or aid is found we suddenly don't have to do the budget cuts or staff reductions.

Another case of abuse is when a School Board member is the Husband or Wife of a teacher. How do you really think they are going to vote?


If nepotism is so bad, then why do we have such great family run business in our town?

If is a family business then it is not nepotism. Whew! you are really naive with that remark.

Nepotism, like anything else, can be abused if left in the hands of the ignorant and corrupt.

Yeah - that is most of the point here.

Professionals do not worry about it (please underline professionals).

Again, in small, small communities like ours, it is impossible to avoid it.

It is not impossible, quit trying to defend this arrogant unethical move made by Ruth Same

If we follow your line of reasoning, then other people should raise our own kids for us. According to some,we couldn't possibly be objective and responsible parents solely because we are related. HOGWASH and you know it!

That makes absolutely no sense at all. [/quote]
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#1133173 --- 01/14/10 08:46 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: GiGi
Is it possible that this young man is qualified and will do a great job?


Is he qualified? Did he submit a resume? Was anyone other then mother involved in the decision to hire him? Was a job posted? Did she review any other resumes for someone, who may have been more qualified and do an even better job? Oh, too many questions.
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#1133174 --- 01/14/10 08:46 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
Originally Posted By: GiGi
.... Is there an assumption here that everyone will abuse employment protocol all the time? I fail to see the ethical and moral grandeur in that kind of thinking.



If it is abused once it is ethically and morally wrong just as if it was done a dozen times.
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#1133175 --- 01/14/10 08:50 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Ghosts]
Senecamom Offline
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Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Originally Posted By: Ghosts
Originally Posted By: GiGi
Is it possible that this young man is qualified and will do a great job?


Is he qualified? Did he submit a resume? Was anyone other then mother involved in the decision to hire him? Was a job posted? Did she review any other resumes for someone, who may have been more qualified and do an even better job? Oh, too many questions.


Carl Same graduated from Mynderse Academy in 1984 and attended the State University College at Delhi to study hotel and restaurant management.

He worked at Disney World and at several other hotels and restaurants in Florida; Atlanta, Ga.; San Francisco; and Syracuse; and currently works at the Red Dove Restaurant in Geneva.

GiGi was the same poster that was defending criticism about Laflers wife.....


Edited by Senecamom (01/14/10 08:54 PM)
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#1133176 --- 01/14/10 08:57 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
GiGi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 98
Loc: Seneca
I don't think the schools are run so well. When budget cuts and staff are on the chopping block, then new money or aid is found we suddenly don't have to do the budget cuts or staff reductions.

****(It would only hurt the kids to do so, that's why!)

Another case of abuse is when a School Board member is the Husband or Wife of a teacher. How do you really think they are going to vote?

***(They can't vote. The must recuse themselves)

If nepotism is so bad, then why do we have such great family run business in our town?

***My point was...being related in terms of employment and supervision of other family members is not a bad thing. I know what nepotism means.

If we follow your line of reasoning, then other people should raise our own kids for us. According to some,we couldn't possibly be objective and responsible parents solely because we are related. HOGWASH and you know it!

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

The point nepotism makes is if you are related then you can't make objective and responsible decisions. Favoritism is the expected outcome. This was a response to: being able to supervise and evaluate her own son.

I am always happy to clarify.
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#1133178 --- 01/14/10 09:00 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Senecamom]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: Senecamom
Originally Posted By: Ghosts
Originally Posted By: GiGi
Is it possible that this young man is qualified and will do a great job?


Is he qualified? Did he submit a resume? Was anyone other then mother involved in the decision to hire him? Was a job posted? Did she review any other resumes for someone, who may have been more qualified and do an even better job? Oh, too many questions.


Carl Same graduated from Mynderse Academy in 1984 and attended the State University College at Delhi to study hotel and restaurant management.

He worked at Disney World and at several other hotels and restaurants in Florida; Atlanta, Ga.; San Francisco; and Syracuse; and currently works at the Red Dove Restaurant in Geneva.


Okay, I'm sold! \:\)

Actually, he probably is a nice young man. Based on his work experience, undoubtably posted on his resume, he appears to be hard worker too. I'll bet all of his personal and business references were checked out too.
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#1133179 --- 01/14/10 09:00 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Senecamom]
GiGi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 98
Loc: Seneca
Seneca Mom: What's your point?


Edited by GiGi (01/14/10 09:07 PM)
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#1133180 --- 01/14/10 09:04 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: GiGi
This was a response to: being able to supervise and evaluate her own son.


My children are perfect!!!!!!!! As a loving mother, that's the only way I could evauate them.


Edited by Ghosts (01/14/10 09:06 PM)
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#1133182 --- 01/14/10 09:07 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Hogwash!

Disruption of the workforce
One of the chief complaints in a company that operates through nepotism is the patent lack of fairness.

Perceived favoritism of a relative can cause dissatisfaction among workers and lower morale.

Employees may have less incentive to perform their responsibilities diligently and proficiently if they feel that the path to promotion is undermined by nepotism.

Indeed, a company employing such tactics may find its more valuable employees seeking new employment where their talent is better recognized.

At a minimum, workers will likely complain and become embittered and less productive in the face of blatant nepotism.Loss of productivity
Nepotism usually leads to an inferior work product.

Employees who are rewarded and promoted because of their relationships with management are likely to be underqualified for the positions they are expected to fill.

That can lead to an erosion of leadership skills at the senior level of the corporation and also contribute to the demoralization of more deserving candidates.
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#1133183 --- 01/14/10 09:08 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Originally Posted By: GiGi
Seneca Mom: What's your point?

A reminder.
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#1133184 --- 01/14/10 09:09 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Ghosts]
Senecamom Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 7411
Loc: On a journey......
Originally Posted By: Ghosts
Originally Posted By: Senecamom
Originally Posted By: Ghosts
Originally Posted By: GiGi
Is it possible that this young man is qualified and will do a great job?


Is he qualified? Did he submit a resume? Was anyone other then mother involved in the decision to hire him? Was a job posted? Did she review any other resumes for someone, who may have been more qualified and do an even better job? Oh, too many questions.


Carl Same graduated from Mynderse Academy in 1984 and attended the State University College at Delhi to study hotel and restaurant management.

He worked at Disney World and at several other hotels and restaurants in Florida; Atlanta, Ga.; San Francisco; and Syracuse; and currently works at the Red Dove Restaurant in Geneva.


Okay, I'm sold! \:\)

Actually, he probably is a nice young man. Based on his work experience, undoubtably posted on his resume, he appears to be hard worker too. I'll bet all of his personal and business references were checked out too.


I was pointing out what the article stated-I am unsure as to how this qualifies him in civil service and election laws...
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#1133185 --- 01/14/10 09:09 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Ghosts]
GiGi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 98
Loc: Seneca
I know you don't believe that to be 100% true. I'm sure they are the best thing since peanut butter...but we do have to teach, train and correct them. I have a good feeling, you do that, too!
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#1133186 --- 01/14/10 09:14 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Nepotism is favoritism based on kinship. That's fine if it's your family business, and your money. If it's a public job, involving the public's money, it should be illegal at the local level, as it is at the state level. I wish people were ethical enough to just act ethically, without a law, but there are always a very few who aren't, or are just too stupid to grasp the issue, so laws have to be made, and there should be a local law:

"Section 73, subdivision 14 of New York's public officers law, adopted in March 2007, reads, in part: "No statewide elected official, state officer or employee, member of the Legislature or legislative employee may participate in any decision to hire, promote, discipline or discharge a relative for any compensated position at, for, or within any state agency, public authority, or the Legislature."
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#1133189 --- 01/14/10 09:20 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Senecamom]
GiGi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 98
Loc: Seneca
Look at the assumptions in these statements. Where does it say ALL and EVERY TIME and EVERYBODY. Again, is it possible he will do a great job and so will she? Is it possible that none of these blanket fears will ever happen at all? I would be more concerned about the love-ships between non-relatives as far as favoritism and low morale.
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#1133190 --- 01/14/10 09:25 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: VM Smith]
GiGi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 98
Loc: Seneca
Yes, I agree to a point. But these are people we know. These aren't stupid, ignorant, uneducated or unprofessional people at all. We need to deal with the reality of that, too. Is the debated harm being done here... real or perceived?
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#1133191 --- 01/14/10 09:31 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
"But these are people we know."

So what? And what does it matter if it happens all the time and every time? You can concern yourself with the hypothetical, if you have the time to waste, but the fact that it's unethical in this instance is what concerns me, and the fact that you can't see what the problem is doesn't concern me a bit.

If they are truly professional people, then they should act in a professional manner. If they don't, then they aren't.
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#1133192 --- 01/14/10 09:34 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: GiGi]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: GiGi
I know you don't believe that to be 100% true. I'm sure they are the best thing since peanut butter...but we do have to teach, train and correct them. I have a good feeling, you do that, too!


No, they are not 100% perfect(99.9% - maybe) because, like me, they are human. However, they sure do make me proud. They all landed their jobs based on their education, hard work and qualifications.

Again, if I owned a private business offering job opportunities with benefits, my children would be at the top of my hiring list. However, even in the private sector, if it didnít work out, it would be very difficult to fire a loved one.
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#1133194 --- 01/14/10 09:43 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: VM Smith]
GiGi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 98
Loc: Seneca
ok. Bottom line is that I respect how you feel. I just don't want to hurt these people. They are good people. If you know them, then you know that much. Yes, I tend to get philosophical, but can we agree to be gentle in our dealings? Let the County make a policy or lobby for a change. Let's not participate in ripping people apart for once in this place. I have come out on occasion and defended good people against horrible untruths because I cannot sit still for it. Have a good night...
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#1133196 --- 01/14/10 09:49 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: Ghosts]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Firing's not the main issue, ghosts; hiring is. In private business, using your own money, it's not at all unethical to show preference in hiring your own kids. In the public sphere, even the appearance of familial preference should be avoided like the plague, and actual preference should be illegal. How many apps were taken, and how was the job publicized? For how long, and where and how? Was proper notice of the opening given?

SC has a code of ethics, but I can't find it online. Do you know if it's online?
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#1133206 --- 01/14/10 10:32 PM Re: Nepotism at the Elections Office? [Re: VM Smith]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
SC has a code of ethics, but I can't find it online. Do you know if it's online?

This appears to be it:

They were changed and posted in the minutes of the July 12, 2005 regular meeting. Click on the link.

http://www.co.seneca.ny.us/bos_files/Min%20071205%20Brd.%20Mtg.%20-%20Approved.pdf

The ethics code appears to be posted on pages 6 through 13.

I would paste them here, but cleaning up the quotes and commas takes time when a copy and paste is done.

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