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#1132156 --- 01/12/10 09:57 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Taxpayer14456]
DogsRPpl2 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 102
Loc: here
Let's not give too much creidt for the cops getting there at the right time, past knowledge of the Seneca County Cops and their abilities don't exactly impress me. Even a broken clock is right twice a day....

And as for people or "dopers" as you call them, complaining about the taxes....I'm pretty sure that statement can be made by many non-dopers about many things. And I'm sure that there are no "boozers" that skip a bill payment for their case of beer...nope, the only people in the world that would do that are "dopers." Ignorance must be bliss for you.
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#1132157 --- 01/12/10 09:58 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Taxpayer14456]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Of course they will find a way to afford it. Tell me you have never seen a woman with two packs of cigarettes in her purse complaining about how she will feed her kids?
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#1132158 --- 01/12/10 10:00 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: terrapinie]
Badge420 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 55
Loc: Tuson, AZ
Originally Posted By: terrapinie
Originally Posted By: oops12
Originally Posted By: terrapinie
Tom Mitchell is awaiting trial for 15 felonies+ ranging from Kidnapping, Criminal use of a Firearm, Assault, 9 counts of Rape, Stalking, etc. and he was released on $25K bail or $25K bond.... Who is the worse criminal here? Who really causes more damage to society?


Ok, honestly I haven't read this thread as of yet. This isn't Tom's first time either. I wish Mike well and hope he beats his cancer.


Thank you Oops - for further supporting how bizarre the legal system is when it comes to drug offenses. Why should Mike's bail be almost double, as a first time offender, and a much lesser crime (qty 1 Class C Felony) - than a rapist who's been previously arrested for similar offenses - and who's charges are far more heinous (qty 6 Class B Felonies - four of which are Rape in the 1st degree.....)?


As VM pointed out, MONEY! That's why. They get the house, the cars and trucks, all the toys and all the MONEY. They will trash your child's life forever and say oh well, they should have known better. And It won't get any better until we fight to make it better. They are raping and plundering at will. Well..... maybe not rape but It isn't far off.

Decriminalize it! Let everyone grow their own and they won't need a dealer that sells hard drugs and fights for his turf.
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#1132159 --- 01/12/10 10:04 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: DogsRPpl2]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: DogsRPpl2
Let's not give too much creidt for the cops getting there at the right time, past knowledge of the Seneca County Cops and their abilities don't exactly impress me. Even a broken clock is right twice a day....


I give credit when credit is due. And they deserve the credit on this one.


Originally Posted By: DogsRPpl2
Ignorance must be bliss for you.



No ignorance here. I think the ignorance is with those who think legalizing marijuana for the sake of taxing it is a good thing.
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#1132160 --- 01/12/10 10:06 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: american girl]
Badge420 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 55
Loc: Tuson, AZ
Originally Posted By: american girl
"more arrests are pending", why would they say that if he was only using it for himself medically? He was operating a business, give us a break!
(not directed at unique, just replying to last post on here)


They always say that. Makes it look like they are on the job. What they are saying is we really got this guy and he is going to roll over.
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#1132161 --- 01/12/10 10:09 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Badge420]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: Badge420
They always say that. Makes it look like they are on the job. What they are saying is we really got this guy and he is going to roll over.



I was wondering if he will cut a deal and name names.
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#1132162 --- 01/12/10 10:10 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Taxpayer14456]
Badge420 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 55
Loc: Tuson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Taxpayer14456

No ignorance here. I think the ignorance is with those who think legalizing marijuana for the sake of taxing it is a good thing.


I agree.
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#1132163 --- 01/12/10 10:11 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Taxpayer14456]
Badge420 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 55
Loc: Tuson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Taxpayer14456
Originally Posted By: Badge420
They always say that. Makes it look like they are on the job. What they are saying is we really got this guy and he is going to roll over.



I was wondering if he will cut a deal and name names.


Thats what they are counting on.
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#1132164 --- 01/12/10 10:12 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Badge420]
oops12 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3924
Loc: Absent
Me to and then go after the ones who are selling the hard drugs. I don't think I've ever read or heard of anyone overdosing on pot.
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#1132167 --- 01/12/10 10:26 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Taxpayer14456]
terrapinie Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 24
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Taxpayer14456

Originally Posted By: terrapinie
and the Pharmaceutical companies half run Washington at this point. With big businesses pouring money into good-ol-boy government officials' pockets to keep marijuana illegal - it'll stay illegal.


Nice try. If it was legalized then the pharmaceutical companies would be the first to be given the right to produce and sell marijuana.


Pharmaceutical Companies want to keep selling their super high priced pills. Pills can't be grown in basements across America. No one is in their kitchen cooking up Vicodin or Oxycontin. The Pharmaceutical companies are not going to be the ones making money on the legalization of marijuana. That's just ridiculous to think that....


Originally Posted By: Taxpayer14456

Originally Posted By: terrapinie
And there are a lot of "criminals" in prison today for extremely long prison sentences, simply due to possession of marijuana. Millions of dollars are spent every year on law enforcement to simply take pot from people. Case in point - Mike O'Malley.


These criminals are not in prison simply because of marijuana possession. No one and I repeat no one is doing prison time because they possessed a little marijuana. They are in prison because they are drug dealers. These criminals have lenghty criminal records which also adds to their sentence. A criminal with 2 strikes get's caught with a felony amount of marijuana is looking at a 3rd strike and a higher sentence.


Wow - you really should do some research Taxpayer... There are thousands of people incarcerated all over America on simple possession charges. That's what Mike O'Malley is charged with right now. If he was supposedly running some giant drug ring out of his house - why wasn't he charged with Distribution? Why wasn't he charged with Sale? Why wasn't he even charged with the Intent to Distribute?

One phenomenon you should look into is the increasing number of women and 'accessory' people involved who end up doing the most time. A lot of dealers involved in the game will plead for lesser sentences. They will provide information to law enforcement to get someone else in trouble, turn up more drugs or money, etc. to reduce their sentences. The wives, girlfriends, roommates, etc. of some of these people get charged in the whole conspiracy just for answering a phone and taking a message, or stopping by a friend's house on the way out to dinner. These 'accessory' people may have NO CLUE what's going on. Because of that - they have no information to provide to law enforcement for a reduced sentence.
It is a well-known fact that there are many incredibly stiff minimum sentence laws for drugs charges. And they leave little to no wiggle room for interpretation of the law, or determining the real culpability in the situation - all are equally guilty regardless of the involvement.

Here's some facts that might help....
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/69
http://www.drugpolicy.org/drugwar/mandatorymin/

Originally Posted By: Taxpayer14456

Originally Posted By: terrapinie
I would also like to submit a question for those of you who think a cancer patient with a green thumb deserves to sit in jail with hardened criminals -


I am sorry to hear he as cancer. But he is in jail because of what he did. It's not society's fault, it's not the pharmaceutical companies fault.

I would be asking what lead the police to this house. Was it because this guy occassionaly enjoys a joint in his livingroom? The answer would be no. I would guess law enforcement has been on this for quite sometime. Law enforcement even pulled off the raid at the right time catching him with the stash and cash.


First, Mike is not in jail currently. And there is innocence before being proven guilty in the US. So, before Mike gets blamed for everything - as I, nor anyone else has even said that everything found in that house was even his, lets remember we do have a judicial process.

Second, law enforcement went to his house because some other kid decided to get himself out of DWI and Leaving the Scene of an Accident by implicating others in wrong doings. Search online news - did anyone hear of a kid wrecking his car in downtown Waterloo and running home from the accident, only to have his mother make him turn himself in? Nope. And why? Because the cops didn't charge him with a single thing. Personally - I care more about the drunk kid driving down Virginia St. who might run me over while I'm smart enough to not drive home from the bar, than I care about someone exercising their green thumb in their house. Yes, growing marijuana is illegal. But again, I have yet to see ANYONE provide me information demonstrating why marijuana itself needs to be illegal....

Some of you folks say it's because of the violence of the drug game and because pot dealers never just sell pot. WRONG. Most potheads I know are the most anti-violent people you'll ever meet. Most people I know who have ever sold marijuana in their lives, only sold marijuana.... And to talk about turf wars... Are we in Compton? This is Waterloo and Seneca Falls we're talking about... There is no 'turf'. They don't fight for territory or fight rival dealers. These aren't guys standing on a corner with a giant black jacket with dime bags in their pockets, literally fighting to keep their post on that corner. I'm sorry to inform you this Taxpayer - but I'd have to venture the guess that probably 95% of drug dealers in our local communities - yes, there are many out there... and wow would you look how violent our streets are.... - anyways - they are just a few friends smoking a joint in a living room. Or - they are your favorite 20-something yr old pizza delivery boy - because delivering pizzas is his guise for stopping at 'clients' houses to drop off an eighth of weed. And those 'clients' - all friends of that person.

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#1132171 --- 01/12/10 10:43 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: terrapinie]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Terra, it is so easy to sit an play the blame game. Nobody got him into this situation but himself. All the acts of all the criminals in the world does not justify nor minimize what he did. Until people start taking responsibility for their stupid acts, the world is going to continue to spiral downward.
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#1132173 --- 01/12/10 10:50 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Greymane]
Badge420 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 55
Loc: Tuson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Greymane
Terra, it is so easy to sit an play the blame game. Nobody got him into this situation but himself. All the acts of all the criminals in the world does not justify nor minimize what he did. Until people start taking responsibility for their stupid acts, the world is going to continue to spiral downward.


Even if that is how the game is played?
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#1132174 --- 01/12/10 10:50 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Greymane]
terrapinie Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 24
Loc: NY
I'm not saying having a crop of plants in a basement is justified, nor should someone who is found in it's possession not have to pay their supposed debt to society.

The question was posed if he wasn't involved in some major drug dealing operation, why did they go to his house. Some other kid setting him up is why they went to his house.


Edited by terrapinie (01/12/10 10:51 AM)

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#1132175 --- 01/12/10 10:54 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: oops12]
Badge420 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 55
Loc: Tuson, AZ
Originally Posted By: oops12
Me to and then go after the ones who are selling the hard drugs. I don't think I've ever read or heard of anyone overdosing on pot.


A cop did once. called 911. HA HA HA HA

Cop over doses on pot brownies.
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#1132179 --- 01/12/10 11:05 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: terrapinie]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: terrapinie
Pharmaceutical Companies want to keep selling their super high priced pills. Pills can't be grown in basements across America. No one is in their kitchen cooking up Vicodin or Oxycontin. The Pharmaceutical companies are not going to be the ones making money on the legalization of marijuana. That's just ridiculous to think that....



Why are those pills super high priced? Because of the for-profit corporations. If marijuana is legalized there will be government imposed sanctions on who can grow and distribute just like the sanctions placed on pharmaceutical companies.


Originally Posted By: terrapinie
There are thousands of people incarcerated all over America on simple possession charges. That's what Mike O'Malley is charged with right now. If he was supposedly running some giant drug ring out of his house - why wasn't he charged with Distribution? Why wasn't he charged with Sale? Why wasn't he even charged with the Intent to Distribute?


Mr. O'Malley isn't charged with simple possession. Simple possession in NYS is NOT a crime. He is charged with a felony. A FELONY.

He is not charged with intent to distribute because in NYS marijuana is NOT a controlled subtance. NYS law defines the intent to sell as the intent to sell a controlled substance.


Originally Posted By: terrapinie
One phenomenon you should look into is the increasing number of women and 'accessory' people involved who end up doing the most time.


It's not really a phenomenon. It's a game. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time.


Originally Posted By: terrapinie
nor anyone else has even said that everything found in that house was even his, lets remember we do have a judicial process.



LOL! The 'it's not mine' is an all time classic. The charge is possession of, not ownership of.


Originally Posted By: terrapinie
Second, law enforcement went to his house because some other kid decided to get himself out of DWI and Leaving the Scene of an Accident by implicating others in wrong doings. Search online news - did anyone hear of a kid wrecking his car in downtown Waterloo and running home from the accident, only to have his mother make him turn himself in? Nope. And why? Because the cops didn't charge him with a single thing.


If that is true it just goes to show you that there is no honor amongst criminals. It further shows that everyone has a price.


Originally Posted By: terrapinie
But again, I have yet to see ANYONE provide me information demonstrating why marijuana itself needs to be illegal....


Same holds true as to why it should be legal. Do you really think if it's legalized that there will be absolutely no restrictions in place? That people can possess as much as they want and sell as much as they want? You can't really believe that because you seem reasonably intelligent.

If your only argument to legalize it is because alcohol and cigarettes are legal then you need to find a better lecture.


Originally Posted By: terrapinie
Some of you folks say it's because of the violence of the drug game and because pot dealers never just sell pot. WRONG.


Except this guy also had cocaine.


Originally Posted By: terrapinie
Most potheads I know are the most anti-violent people you'll ever meet. Most people I know who have ever sold marijuana in their lives, only sold marijuana.... And to talk about turf wars... Are we in Compton? This is Waterloo and Seneca Falls we're talking about... There is no 'turf'. They don't fight for territory or fight rival dealers. These aren't guys standing on a corner with a giant black jacket with dime bags in their pockets, literally fighting to keep their post on that corner. I'm sorry to inform you this Taxpayer - but I'd have to venture the guess that probably 95% of drug dealers in our local communities - yes, there are many out there... and wow would you look how violent our streets are.... - anyways - they are just a few friends smoking a joint in a living room. Or - they are your favorite 20-something yr old pizza delivery boy - because delivering pizzas is his guise for stopping at 'clients' houses to drop off an eighth of weed. And those 'clients' - all friends of that person.



The violence is all around us and much of it is linked to drugs. Maybe we don't have the street crime you indicated is because being a small community where people know other people's business allows law enforcement to focus on what some perceive to be the small stuff.

The common denominator for crime is drugs. Legalizing drugs of any kind will not stop the crime.

There is no Constitutional Amendment that allows someone to exercise their right to having a green thumb by growing marijuana.

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#1132184 --- 01/12/10 11:31 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Badge420]
DogsRPpl2 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 102
Loc: here
I heard that call, very funny!
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#1132186 --- 01/12/10 11:38 AM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Taxpayer14456]
DogsRPpl2 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 102
Loc: here
At the end of the day, what is done, is done. I would just like to point out that Mike is not, and has not been charged with, being a violent person. Nor has he had, as far a I know, any prior arrests for this type of conduct, so I think your comment about all drug dealers having "lenghty criminal records" is a bit judgemental. Grouping people into a subset and using the terms "all" or "these people" could be considered a bias, let's hope that he has a jury that is a little less biased so that the justice system can work. No one on here, either for or against him or the situation, can really judge until they have all the facts. Bottom line, do you really think that the legalization of marijuana is going to be resovled on the Seneca County forums, I doubt it.
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#1132191 --- 01/12/10 12:00 PM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Taxpayer14456]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Taxpayer14456

No ignorance here. I think the ignorance is with those who think legalizing marijuana for the sake of taxing it is a good thing.

How much revenue can realy be gained for a product people can grow just about anywhere? There is a reason it's called "weed." You'd have to legislate the growing of marijuana. Good luck with that. It's worked so well, up until now...
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#1132195 --- 01/12/10 12:16 PM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: DogsRPpl2]
Taxpayer14456 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 8109
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: DogsRPpl2
At the end of the day, what is done, is done. I would just like to point out that Mike is not, and has not been charged with, being a violent person. Nor has he had, as far a I know, any prior arrests for this type of conduct, so I think your comment about all drug dealers having "lenghty criminal records" is a bit judgemental. Grouping people into a subset and using the terms "all" or "these people" could be considered a bias, let's hope that he has a jury that is a little less biased so that the justice system can work. No one on here, either for or against him or the situation, can really judge until they have all the facts. Bottom line, do you really think that the legalization of marijuana is going to be resovled on the Seneca County forums, I doubt it.



I didn't mean Mr. O'Malley has a lenghty criminal record. The people doing time in prison for marijuana possession are not first time offenders who were caught smoking one joint in their livingroom. Nor is it the college kid who smokes weed in his dorm room or the working stiff who occassionally enjoys a joint now and then after a hard days work.

No, I don't think the matter of legalization will be solved at all anytime within the next decade.

The reason being is because the government can't control it effectively without more laws and more enforcement.

As things are now with the government wanting to force health care on us, forcing more taxes and fee's upon us, I don't see why anyone would want the government to even attempt to legalize marijuana and control it. Unless someone is dillusional enough to believe that legalization means there would be absolutely no enforcement of any kind and one can grow, sell and possess as much as he/she wants to. Which I think some people truly believe.
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#1132202 --- 01/12/10 12:27 PM Re: Another "retired" farmer [Re: Taxpayer14456]
DogsRPpl2 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 102
Loc: here
I think that people do expect that it will be regulated; I doubt anyone realistically thinks that the government would allow anything like that to go tax free. But I think that considerations should be made for medicinal use, many studies have shown that it does help certain conditions. And those considerations shouldn't get pushed to the wayside because some people don't like "dopers." Obviously many people will have their own agendas for why it should be decriminalized, legalized, or just legalized for medicinal use. But I feel that each side should have their chance to voice their opinions, and not disregard the notion just because you think everyone wants to get stoned.

I happen to have a condition that studies have shown would be helped with medicinal use of marijuana, but alas, I suffer because it is not available here. I choose not to buy it illegally because I have too much to risk in getting caught. But the day it is made legal, I'll be in the line at the "pharmacy" to fill my Rx. \:\)
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