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#1439111 --- 03/06/14 10:02 AM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4814
Loc: The Annex
Originally Posted By: Timbo

It sucks when the shoe's on the other foot, doesn't it?


Fuzzy Smith is just another pathetic crank grasping at straws to stroke his white-skin privilege.
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#1439114 --- 03/06/14 10:14 AM Re: More Tribal News [Re: VM Smith]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14335
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
you pretty clearly explain a game designed to confuse.

As his own haphazard demonstrations of the art, so clearly illustrate. whistle
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#1439115 --- 03/06/14 10:36 AM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
http://www.journal-register.com/local/x1196474238/Funds-are-available-for-tribal-lands
Funds are Available for Tribal Lands

Donald Pettit, State Conservationist for the United States Department of Agriculture's Natural Resources Conservation Service (USDA NRCS) in New York State, has announced the establishment of an American Indian "Tribal Set-aside" initiative that will direct a portion of New York’s USDA NRCS Environmental Quality Incentives Program (EQIP) allocation for use specifically on tribal and American Indian Nation lands within New York."Other states with sizeable Indian Nation holdings and reservations have used this approach very successfully for many years," said Pettit. "We feel there is enough interest and need on tribal lands in New York to give this strategy a try here in hopes of supporting Indian Nation conservation priorities through the USDA NRCS Environmental Quality Incentive Program." The conservation practices and conservation activity plans (CAPs) available under the set-aside will include all practices and plans offered in all EQIP funding codes with an emphasis on soil health, wildlife habitat enhancement and forest management.

[Note: well of course. The gas stations that faced prohibitive costs for securing fuel near waterways in competition with tribal stations that ignored the mandates and paid no taxes and the tribal marinas that ignored getting permits for dredging and pay no taxes and the golf course which pays no taxes that ignored state law and never called UFPO and built a helicopter pad on top of a major NYSEG gas line and would not allow NYSEG in to repair leaks they caused until the golf tournament was over will now have money thrown at them for conservation by a State that is broke.

Quite obviously the million dollars a day from their casinos and the multi millions in federal grants is not enough to entice tribes to care for mother earth. Imagine that? And with no enforceability or any jurisdiction by the State on any lands could get placed into trust and the State never enforcing any laws on the land they have jurisdiction over on reservations it compares so much with the federal government. ]

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#1439130 --- 03/06/14 02:43 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Welcome to socialism, which is always authoritarian. Pick a group that you want to have special advantages, at the expense of the rest, seize money from the rest, and bestow the special treatment. Rinse and repeat, and call it Progressive.

Continue your stupid and immoral project until there is no money left, and then blame greedy capitalists for your failure, and for objecting to having the product of their labor stolen.

You were smart to flee the Failed State Project, as so many have.
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1439132 --- 03/06/14 03:29 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN


It sucks when the shoe's on the other foot, doesn't it?

Sauce for the Goose:
http://www.onondaganation.org/land/faq.html
Nope, no sauce here. Typical tribal web site. The tribe explains their basis for the land claim which they lost and have not updated their web site. Nothing new and nothing about the UN here. I agree they were never defeated per say because I do not think they chose sides in the Revolution. The only thing new is Timbo discovered the Onondaga tribe.

http://www.honorindiantreaties.org/get-informed/governing-treaties/
Next link jumps to the Seneca Tribal web site. Their rant is typical Timbo selective style. Heaven forbid they actually post the treaties for people to read as opposed to selective words. They note the Canandaigua treaty guaranteed them free use and enjoyment of their land.

Lets look at the Treaty of Canandaigua: ARTICLE 2.
The United States acknowledge the lands reserved to the Oneida, Onondaga and Cayuga Nations, in their respective treaties with the state of New-York, and called their reservations, to be their property; and the United States will never claim the same, nor disturb them or either of the Six Nations, nor their Indian friends residing thereon and united with them, in the free use and enjoyment thereof: but the said reservations shall remain theirs, until they choose to sell the same to the people of the United States, who have the right to purchase.

OH, in their respective treaties with the State of New York because these are State reservations under State sovereignty. So, of course, the US would not claim the land. Furthermore the Oneida and Cayuga sold ALL their land to NYS in the NYS treaties and only had a use right to part of the State owned lands.

ARTICLE 4.
The United States having thus described and acknowledged what lands belong to the Oneidas, Onondagas, Cayugas and Senekas, and engaged never to claim the same, nor to disturb them, or any of the Six Nations, or their Indian friends residing thereon and united with them, in the free use and enjoyment thereof: Now, the Six Nations, and each of them, hereby engage that they will never claim any other lands within the boundaries of the United States; nor ever disturb the people of the United States in the free use and enjoyment thereof.
The TRIBES were the ones that broke the treaties.

ARTICLE 5.
The Seneka nation, all others of the Six Nations concurring, cede to the United States the right of making a wagon road from Fort Schlosser to Lake Erie, as far south as Buffaloe Creek; and the people of the United States shall have the free and undisturbed use of this road, for the purposes of travelling and transportation. And the Six Nations, and each of them, will forever allow to the people of the United States, a free passage through their lands, and the free use of the harbors and rivers adjoining and within their respective tracts of land, for the passing and securing of vessels and boats, and liberty to land their cargoes where necessary for their safety.
The TRIBES were the ones that broke the treaties.

Also it appears that this treaty was never ratified by the Senate. See American State Papers, Indian Affairs, vol. 1, p. 232.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.co...iolations-35792\
Ahh, an article in Ray Halbritter's own rag about the Seneca being one of those which spoke at the UN. From the article it states "President Barack Obama announced that the U.S. was ‘lending its support" to the Declaration "but the United States, which to date has failed to formally adopt the document, has taken no meaningful action," Seneca said.

That should not have been too hard for you to dig up being that I already told you the same thing and posted
As to the discussion on indigenous people and the UN: that is really all Hollywood hoopla and US laws do not really apply except as a minority status. Even Halbritter's tribal news makes this clear. http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.co...-experts-152114
Laws Needed to Enforce U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples: Legal Experts
Carol Berry 11/7/13

Well, Obama is a lame duck and it is the US Senate which has to approve such, so nothing has changed. Your sauce is getting rather watery with no meat.

https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/j/jemison-treaty.html
You really are getting desperate in your Google searches. This is just a book review written by pro tribal supporters with the same big lie theory you use such as in the book review "My point is that a treaty, according to Article 4 of the United States Constitution, is the supreme law of the land." OOPS, Peter selected a few words from the article just like you did. Well, I already exposed that BS.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=470&invol=226
Not even close and you do not even have a clue because you are not from here. But there is a noteworthy footnote: [ Footnote 14 ] Representative Morris, the sponsor of the proviso, stated:
"As it is now, the Indians, as we know, are WARDS of the Government and, therefore, the statute of limitations does not run against them as it does in the ordinary case. This [proviso] will preserve their rights so that the statute will not be running against them concerning those claims that might have arisen before the passage of this act." 96 Cong. Rec. 12460 (1950).

As cases proceeded the Oneida ended up losing claim to any land and losing any claim to any money BECAUSE of the Statute of limitations. But that was in 2005 and you are genuflecting to yourself relishing over a case that was heard in 1985 which only allowed the case to proceed. There was an Oneida I, II, & III. There was also an Oneida aboriginal claim to the six million acres they sold NYS in addition to these which they lost and did not appeal to SCOTUS.

This is noted in your Wiki link below
"Another Oneida claim, challenging the pre-constitutional conveyance of another 6-million-acre (24,000 km2) tract, was rejected by the Second Circuit in 1988, on the grounds that the Confederation Congress Proclamation of 1783 had neither the authority nor the intent to limit the acquisition of Indian lands within the borders of U.S. states.[40]
That is what I argued with the court appointed attorneys over because both tribes sold ALL their land to the State before the State joined the union." But I already explained that which you chose to ignore.

Evidently you did not pick up a program on Google. If you could actually read and comprehend it you would see that this is NOT even a ruling but rather a remand back to a lower court.

Your sauce has almost burned up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Oneida_v._Oneida_Indian_Nation_of_New_York_State
Oh no, You do know that anyone can post on Wiki and verify their statements with selective facts. The pro global warming promoters did just that throughout Wiki and were exposed a few years ago.

But while I do admit that this is a rather complete write up synopsis it only proves you have proven nothing. That your sauce has burned up and the only sucking sound is your butt sucking in your head. Sucks to be you when you put your shoes on the wrong feet. So much for your other foot and sauce.

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#1439134 --- 03/06/14 03:47 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
tubby Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 1341
Loc: N.Y.
Give it up Timbo you have no chance.

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#1439139 --- 03/06/14 04:20 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: tubby]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4814
Loc: The Annex
Originally Posted By: tubby
Give it up Timbo you have no chance.

Yeah okay Tubby.
Same ignorant advice given the Haudenosaunee. They're still here and will flourish long after this rotting empire is but a memory.
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"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1439140 --- 03/06/14 04:29 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Teonan]
tubby Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 1341
Loc: N.Y.
Take another toke.

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#1439142 --- 03/06/14 04:41 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: tubby]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4814
Loc: The Annex
Thanks! Don't mind if I do. cool

Next time slam down an extra thick sh*t sandwich and cough up something I might consider an insult; if that's your intention Tubster.
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"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1439146 --- 03/06/14 04:55 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: tubby]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: tubby
Give it up Timbo you have no chance.
Yup: when I posted the info about the UN it was wrong according to Timbo, but when he posted the same thing about the UN it becomes a fact. But he still could not comprehend that it did not apply because he cannot connect more than one dot together at the same time.

I have thought of calling him Timblow, as I think you have, or Bobo but the definition you found of Timbo suits him so well.

It is unfortunate that the attorneys misrepresenting the people intentionally passed over the State treaties as exposed in the 6 million acre land claim, noting the T of C recognized them as valid, for the obvious purpose of making millions off the State and dragging out the land claims. Were it not for UCE involvement with attorneys in Sherrill and Cayuga, laches would not have been presented as a defense for SCOTUS to consider. It was so obvious because Chief Justice Reinquist had a footnote in Oneida I in reference to that. It is all about the money and your Governor has been bought.

But I would hang my hat on the Central New York Fair Business Association lawsuit which has already had the Constitutional arguments NOT dismissed. It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.

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#1439151 --- 03/06/14 06:31 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Teonan]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Originally Posted By: tubby
Give it up Timbo you have no chance.
Yeah okay Tubby.
Same ignorant advice given the Haudenosaunee. They're still here and will flourish long after this rotting empire is but a memory.
Wow. What a traitor to America you are. The USA will let you live whereas any tribe would of had your scalp by now if you talked about them that way.
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#1439157 --- 03/06/14 08:32 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4814
Loc: The Annex
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Wow. What a traitor to America you are.


For Christsakes Kyle go mop your brow. crazy

Don't you have other pet projects that deserve your attention rather than trying to redefine a word?

trai·tor
noun

: a person who is not loyal to his or her own country, friends, etc. : a person who betrays a country or group of people by helping or supporting an enemy.

1 - One who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty.
2 - Who commits treason.

Merriam-Webster
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"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1439176 --- 03/07/14 06:36 AM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Teonan]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Same ignorant advice given the Haudenosaunee.


did you get that advice from the queen?

Originally Posted By: Teonan
They're still here


how is that US citizenship working for ya?

Originally Posted By: Teonan
and will flourish long after this rotting empire is but a memory.


yawn...
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#1439215 --- 03/07/14 10:36 AM Re: More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14335
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Originally Posted By: tubby
Give it up Timbo you have no chance.
Yeah okay Tubby.
Same ignorant advice given the Haudenosaunee. They're still here and will flourish long after this rotting empire is but a memory.
Wow. What a traitor to America you are. The USA will let you live whereas any tribe would of had your scalp by now if you talked about them that way.

Am I also a traitor for sharing the same opinions on our Native peoples's having the absolute right to do with their land, that which they choose, as opposed to being forced into subjugation by invading forces?

I served my country honorably for several years while in the Navy and have earned the right to my opinions and to remind others of the entire history of America, it's indigenous peoples and it's European visitors. Not just the sanitized whitewash promulgated over the past 100 years or so.

What have you done other than to have had the dumb good fortune to be born on the native's home continent?

I've never seen a more transparently ignorant and bigoted statement on these forums. For whatever reason, your otherwise progressive sensibilities drop straight off of a cliff, when it comes to this issue.

Sad.
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#1439222 --- 03/07/14 01:40 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Am I also a traitor for sharing the same opinions on our Native peoples's having the absolute right to do with their land, that which they choose, as opposed to being forced into subjugation by invading forces?
Just tell me one thing. What is their land in 2014? All of North and South America or what? Are you not also living on their land? What is your homeland?
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#1439224 --- 03/07/14 01:42 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
I served my country honorably for several years while in the Navy and have earned the right to my opinions and to remind others of the entire history of America, it's indigenous peoples and it's European visitors.
Is your country the USA? The country that stole all this land from the indigenous people?
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**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1439225 --- 03/07/14 01:43 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
I served my country honorably for several years while in the Navy and have earned the right to my opinions and to remind others of the entire history of America, it's indigenous peoples and it's European visitors. Not just the sanitized whitewash promulgated over the past 100 years or so.
Just the last 100 years? The 400 years before that were not a problem?
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#1439226 --- 03/07/14 01:46 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
What have you done other than to have had the dumb good fortune to be born on the native's home continent?
2,000 years almost everyone lived on their home continent. Do you think no one should of moved or explored since then and left their home continent? Shaking my head in amazement.
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**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1439233 --- 03/07/14 02:06 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14335
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
What have you done other than to have had the dumb good fortune to be born on the native's home continent?
2,000 years almost everyone lived on their home continent. Do you think no one should of moved or explored since then and left their home continent? Shaking my head in amazement.

More likely from confusion.

Now why don't you answer my questions?
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1439235 --- 03/07/14 02:08 PM Re: More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
What have you done other than to have had the dumb good fortune to be born on the native's home continent?
2,000 years almost everyone lived on their home continent. Do you think no one should of moved or explored since then and left their home continent? Shaking my head in amazement.
More likely in confusion.
Gee I thought this might be a simple question you could answer but I guess not.
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