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#1031366 --- 05/30/09 07:19 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
[quote=Santa_Cruzer]If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?


Can't








Your words bz...not mine.


??? So didn't the Indians own this whole continent? You comments are so confused sometimes it is very hard to debate with you.


Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership. I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?



Whats to debate is if we should give back land and how much. How much land should we give them? All they want?


Whats the price of cultural genocide?...hmmmm.


All you do is talk in generalities. Should we all move back to Europe, Africa, etc?


If folks were so inclined. Yes.
So. What is the price for cultural genocide?


But what if they are not so inclined? I have read on here where the Indians have been paid eight times for the land they are now claiming.


Choices, of course.
Eight times 8,000,000. Never enough cash to cover euro-settler crimes of genocide against the indigenous folks in the Americas. [/quote]

It has been posted on here that far worse was done to black Americans than Indian Americans and they have not been paid a dime for it. Should they also?
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#1031371 --- 05/30/09 07:21 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: kyle585]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
[quote=bluezone][quote=Santa_Cruzer]If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?


Can't








Your words bz...not mine.


??? So didn't the Indians own this whole continent? You comments are so confused sometimes it is very hard to debate with you.


Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership. I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?



Whats to debate is if we should give back land and how much. How much land should we give them? All they want?


Whats the price of cultural genocide?...hmmmm.


All you do is talk in generalities. Should we all move back to Europe, Africa, etc?


If folks were so inclined. Yes.
So. What is the price for cultural genocide?


But what if they are not so inclined? I have read on here where the Indians have been paid eight times for the land they are now claiming.


Choices, of course.
Eight times 8,000,000. Never enough cash to cover euro-settler crimes of genocide against the indigenous folks in the Americas. [/quote]

It has been posted on here that far worse was done to black Americans than Indian Americans and they have not been paid a dime for it. Should they also? [/quote]

I think so. Better to bring your question to Black folks.
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#1031411 --- 05/30/09 09:27 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
pixie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 1912
Loc: Romulus
So what, were all suppose to just leave, do you think there is some where 300 million people could all go so 150 can keep the tax they illegally collect, with out American citizens to support the welfare given to the Indians, welfare because they could never get on with integrating into society. Who would pave their roads, who would provide their medical , who would generate their power, who would gamble at the casinos, who would buy there cigs , and best of all where would they buy the booze. Lets be real honest its all about tax money grab, how can they wiggle and squirm just out side the law and morality to make a few Indian chiefs rich while the rest wallow in poverty.
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#1031419 --- 05/30/09 09:53 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: pixie]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Forcing indigenous folks into this foul western culture was a cruel trap. Worry not, their Traditionals will ultimately 'bat last', ending the tribal/BIA black hole. Offering US a better life path example too (as they always have).
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http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

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#1031470 --- 05/31/09 09:50 AM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
pixie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 1912
Loc: Romulus
So SC you want to go back to hunting with arrows and living with war between tribes. I think what you believe was a paradise was in fact a paradox. The indians were so smart they did not even advance the bow and arrow in 10,000 years. Indians were very vicious and brutal on their own people way before we showed up.

USA beat the Indians in a war the Indians were very much a party too. Sorry you lost now get over it. Yep Indians are part of the land, live in harmony with nature , bla bla bla is that why the government is now paying to clean up huge piles of rusting steel drums full of very bad industrial waste on Indian reservations in the mid west. Seems the local Indians though of a illegal quick way to make money and get rich sound familiar. They got paid big bucks to illegally store chemical waste on there land, with out knowing the final consequences. And we keep paying, and paying for every aspect over and over again just for the very small Indian population left. So much for your Indian traditionals offering a better life path. Indian life path is selling cigs, transporting drugs and illegal people over borders, tax evasion,gambling and waste poluting chemical storage, whats next I can only imagine.
Ps if you do not like the foul western culture dont let the door hit you in the butt as you leave the country. Pss you sound like some idiot spouting idealistic phrases.


Edited by pixie (05/31/09 09:54 AM)
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chemical / electrical engineer .

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#1031562 --- 05/31/09 01:08 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: pixie]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: pixie
So SC you want to go back to hunting with arrows and living with war between tribes. I think what you believe was a paradise was in fact a paradox. The indians were so smart they did not even advance the bow and arrow in 10,000 years. Indians were very vicious and brutal on their own people way before we showed up.

USA beat the Indians in a war the Indians were very much a party too. Sorry you lost now get over it. Yep Indians are part of the land, live in harmony with nature , bla bla bla is that why the government is now paying to clean up huge piles of rusting steel drums full of very bad industrial waste on Indian reservations in the mid west. Seems the local Indians though of a illegal quick way to make money and get rich sound familiar. They got paid big bucks to illegally store chemical waste on there land, with out knowing the final consequences. And we keep paying, and paying for every aspect over and over again just for the very small Indian population left. So much for your Indian traditionals offering a better life path. Indian life path is selling cigs, transporting drugs and illegal people over borders, tax evasion,gambling and waste poluting chemical storage, whats next I can only imagine.
Ps if you do not like the foul western culture dont let the door hit you in the butt as you leave the country. Pss you sound like some idiot spouting idealistic phrases.



You actually ARE a racist....how SHOCKING indeed!
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

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#1031601 --- 05/31/09 03:24 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?

Your words bz...not mine.


Is it not your position that it is indian land?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1031602 --- 05/31/09 03:25 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Sure. My measly 8 Ontario County acres is available to the Senecas if they want it.

why are you waiting to give it back to them for free?

A thoughtful idea. Maybe I will.


Maybe???
Is that to suggest that it is not indian land?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1031603 --- 05/31/09 03:28 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership.

Nomads did not own land they just wandered.

Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?


So what reservation do you live on?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1031607 --- 05/31/09 03:32 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer

Whats the price of cultural genocide?...hmmmm.


Examples?
How much is owed to the Algonquin by the Cayugas?

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1031619 --- 05/31/09 04:07 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: bluezone]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
"lands of contention" - Current lands claims area.

Yes.
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

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#1031620 --- 05/31/09 04:09 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
"lands of contention" - Current lands claims area.
Yes.


Sorry but they lost their land claim.
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1031622 --- 05/31/09 04:11 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: bluezone]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer

Whats the price of cultural genocide?...hmmmm.


Examples?
How much is owed to the Algonquin by the Cayugas?



Ask the Cayugas what they think is fitting concerning the Algonquins. As an euro-american U.S. citizen it's the blood on OUR hands which concerns me.
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

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#1031625 --- 05/31/09 04:15 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
As an euro-american U.S. citizen it's the blood on OUR hands which concerns me.


You have blood on your hands?
Where is your homeland?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1031629 --- 05/31/09 04:18 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: bluezone]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership.

Nomads did not own land they just wandered.

Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?


So what reservation do you live on?

Nomadic societies and seasonal lifeways are not the same. Many indigenous peoples existed within areas of 100sq. miles for generations.



_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

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#1031631 --- 05/31/09 04:20 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: bluezone]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
"lands of contention" - Current lands claims area.
Yes.


Sorry but they lost their land claim.




Traditional societies generally identified themselves as part of the land and it's various life forms. 'All my Relations'.
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

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#1031636 --- 05/31/09 04:23 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: bluezone]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
As an euro-american U.S. citizen it's the blood on OUR hands which concerns me.


You have blood on your hands?
Where is your homeland?

I'm euro-american. A citizen of the United States. A prison house of nations. Pax-Americana, colonization and occupation is ALWAYS met with resistance, a bloody affair.

_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

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#1031652 --- 05/31/09 04:41 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
I'm euro-american. A citizen of the United States. A prison house of nations. Pax-Americana, colonization and occupation is ALWAYS met with resistance, a bloody affair.


Have you renounced your US citizenship yet?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1031655 --- 05/31/09 04:44 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: bluezone]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
I'm euro-american. A citizen of the United States. A prison house of nations. Pax-Americana, colonization and occupation is ALWAYS met with resistance, a bloody affair.


Have you renounced your US citizenship yet?

No.

_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

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#1031659 --- 05/31/09 04:50 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone

Have you renounced your US citizenship yet?


No.


And why not?

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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