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#1030795 --- 05/29/09 03:18 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: kyle585]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.
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#1030799 --- 05/29/09 03:32 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.


Oh you are so full of baloney. That is pure BS. All of North America was once occupied by the Indians, was it not? Why don't we give it all back to them? Do you think the people who own land in Seneca/Cayuga counties now being claimed by the 150 member "Cayuga Nation" that was owned by white people for hundreds of years brought their land thinking that someday the Indians would try to reclaim it? I am sure that was the farthest thing from their minds.

And you have never addressed California once belonging to Mexico, I notice.
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#1030800 --- 05/29/09 03:35 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: kyle585]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070725100147AA5reY9

Some nuts think part of the US belongs to Mexico.Are they willing to give Mexico back to Spain or Guatemala?

Mexico stole California for example from Spain, who in turn stole it from the Indian tribes that lived in California at the time. There were never any mexicans in California (not one) before Mexico stole the land from Spain or the California Indians. Also The Russians had settlements that were in turn taken by Mexico so the claim that California some how is part of Mexico by right is really silly but I'd love to hear what the illegal immigration crowd that supports this fantasy of Mexico having a moral right to California thinks.

Would they give it back to the Indians and have all those of Mexican and European descent leave the State to the few remaining native people?

By the Way both Spain and even France could make a claim for all of Mexico now if they support turning the land back to the "real" owners.

Where would it stop? Don't forget that 150 years before the Spanish came to Mexico that the Aztecs were stealing land form the Mayans in the South of Mexico...
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#1030805 --- 05/29/09 03:45 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Sure. My measly 8 Ontario County acres is available to the Senecas if they want it.


So if tommorrow some Indian tribe laid claim to your 8 acres in Ontario County you would just hand it over to them without a fight? That is the biggest crock of bull I have heard on here in quite a while. You would be fighting them for it tooth and nail.
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#1030807 --- 05/29/09 03:49 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: kyle585]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070725100147AA5reY9

Well, let's see....parts of the present-day United States used to belong to Mexico...which used to belong to Spain...which used to belong to the Holy Roman Empire, the Moors before them, and the Romans before them...and I'm not really sure past that.
On the other hand, it used to be in the hands of the Aztecs...and current evidence supports the claim that people skirted down the coast of North and South America after having originally made it across the Bering Strait from present-day Russia.

The premise of all of this "return the land to the original owners" nonsense is that no one group actually originally "owned" the land. Just because some ancient agronomers worked an area does not make it "theirs". The people who feel this way need to learn to accept reality for what it is and get over it.
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#1030821 --- 05/29/09 04:32 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: kyle585]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6485
Loc: Waterloo
To back your theory. The Cayugas were not the original owners of the lands in NYS. They were driven north to this area by other tribes in southern United States. When they arrived in this area they in turn drove out other tribes.

Quoted from A CAYUGA CHRONICLE
by Warren L. Hickman

"Unlike some other Indian tribes, the Cayuga had no "ancestral lands". Driven into central New York by other Indians, they in turn drove out tribes to which that area was ancestral land. By the time of the Revolutionary War there were relatively few full-blood Cayugas. So many captive Hurons and Eries had been adopted into the tribe to replace warriors killed in raids throughout the Piedmont from New Jersey to Alabama that most of the tribe could no longer claim more than partial Cayuga lineage."
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#1030849 --- 05/29/09 05:47 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: kyle585]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Sure. My measly 8 Ontario County acres is available to the Senecas if they want it.


So if tommorrow some Indian tribe laid claim to your 8 acres in Ontario County you would just hand it over to them without a fight? That is the biggest crock of bull I have heard on here in quite a while. You would be fighting them for it tooth and nail.


Your quite wrong actually.
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http://www.canorml.org

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#1030892 --- 05/29/09 06:56 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: SilverFox]
SkySoldier Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 25300
Loc: Finger Lakes National Forest, ...
[quote=SilverFox]To back your theory. The Cayugas were not the original owners of the lands in NYS. They were driven north to this area by other tribes in southern United States. When they arrived in this area they in turn drove out other tribes.

Quoted from A CAYUGA CHRONICLE
by Warren L. Hickman

"Unlike some other Indian tribes, the Cayuga had no "ancestral lands". Driven into central New York by other Indians, they in turn drove out tribes to which that area was ancestral land. By the time of the Revolutionary War there were relatively few full-blood Cayugas. So many captive Hurons and Eries had been adopted into the tribe to replace warriors killed in raids throughout the Piedmont from New Jersey to Alabama that most of the tribe could no longer claim more than partial Cayuga lineage." [quote]
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We can fix that.

America is not THE problem.

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#1031193 --- 05/30/09 11:49 AM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Sure. My measly 8 Ontario County acres is available to the Senecas if they want it.


why are you waiting to give it back to them for free?
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#1031195 --- 05/30/09 11:51 AM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32556
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?



_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1031268 --- 05/30/09 04:51 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: bluezone]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?



Your words bz...not mine.
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

Top
#1031269 --- 05/30/09 04:52 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: bluezone]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Sure. My measly 8 Ontario County acres is available to the Senecas if they want it.


why are you waiting to give it back to them for free?




A thoughtful idea. Maybe I will.
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

Top
#1031275 --- 05/30/09 05:14 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?



Your words bz...not mine.


??? So didn't the Indians own this whole continent? You comments are so confused sometimes it is very hard to debate with you.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1031293 --- 05/30/09 06:24 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: kyle585]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?





Your words bz...not mine.


??? So didn't the Indians own this whole continent? You comments are so confused sometimes it is very hard to debate with you.


Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership. I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

Top
#1031312 --- 05/30/09 06:44 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?





Your words bz...not mine.


??? So didn't the Indians own this whole continent? You comments are so confused sometimes it is very hard to debate with you.


Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership. I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?



Whats to debate is if we should give back land and how much. How much land should we give them? All they want?
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1031324 --- 05/30/09 06:50 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: kyle585]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?








Your words bz...not mine.


??? So didn't the Indians own this whole continent? You comments are so confused sometimes it is very hard to debate with you.


Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership. I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?



Whats to debate is if we should give back land and how much. How much land should we give them? All they want?


Whats the price of cultural genocide?...hmmmm.
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

Top
#1031349 --- 05/30/09 07:05 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?








Your words bz...not mine.


??? So didn't the Indians own this whole continent? You comments are so confused sometimes it is very hard to debate with you.


Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership. I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?



Whats to debate is if we should give back land and how much. How much land should we give them? All they want?


Whats the price of cultural genocide?...hmmmm.


All you do is talk in generalities. Should we all move back to Europe, Africa, etc?
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1031351 --- 05/30/09 07:08 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: kyle585]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?


Can't








Your words bz...not mine.


??? So didn't the Indians own this whole continent? You comments are so confused sometimes it is very hard to debate with you.


Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership. I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?



Whats to debate is if we should give back land and how much. How much land should we give them? All they want?


Whats the price of cultural genocide?...hmmmm.


All you do is talk in generalities. Should we all move back to Europe, Africa, etc?


If folks were so inclined. Yes.
So. What is the price for cultural genocide?
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

Top
#1031357 --- 05/30/09 07:13 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: Santa_Cruzer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?


Can't








Your words bz...not mine.


??? So didn't the Indians own this whole continent? You comments are so confused sometimes it is very hard to debate with you.


Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership. I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?



Whats to debate is if we should give back land and how much. How much land should we give them? All they want?


Whats the price of cultural genocide?...hmmmm.


All you do is talk in generalities. Should we all move back to Europe, Africa, etc?


If folks were so inclined. Yes.
So. What is the price for cultural genocide?


But what if they are not so inclined? I have read on here where the Indians have been paid eight times for the land they are now claiming.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1031363 --- 05/30/09 07:17 PM Re: Legislators mount land-trust opposition [Re: kyle585]
Santa_Cruzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Westside
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Santa_Cruzer
If my property was within the settler-occupied lands of contention my decision would quite easy.

Do you live on the moon?
Thought that the indians "owned" this whole continent and that would include your property?


Can't








Your words bz...not mine.


??? So didn't the Indians own this whole continent? You comments are so confused sometimes it is very hard to debate with you.


Indigenous folks have a different worldview regarding ownership. I'm down with the original peoples. What to 'debate'?



Whats to debate is if we should give back land and how much. How much land should we give them? All they want?


Whats the price of cultural genocide?...hmmmm.


All you do is talk in generalities. Should we all move back to Europe, Africa, etc?


If folks were so inclined. Yes.
So. What is the price for cultural genocide?


But what if they are not so inclined? I have read on here where the Indians have been paid eight times for the land they are now claiming.


Choices, of course.
Eight times 8,000,000. Never enough cash to cover euro-settler crimes of genocide against the indigenous folks in the Americas.
_________________________

LONG LIVE AARON COMETBUS!
http://www.freakradio.org
http://www.canorml.org

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