Frack legislation

Posted by: Rich_Tallcot

Frack legislation - 06/15/11 04:56 PM

This is the last week of the legislative session in Albany. The New York State Senate is blocking all legislation to protect us from the dangers of hydrofracking. There are three important bills that the Senate should advance and vote on.

A.7400 Sweeney/S.5592 Carlucci -- One Year Moratorium on Hydrofracking: As we reported last week, the New York State Assembly has already passed a bill that would suspend all permitting for hydraulic fracturing until June 1, 2012. But this bill will go nowhere unless the Senate passes their own version and the governor signs it.

A.7013 Sweeney/S.4616 Avella -- Classifying Fracking Waste as Hazardous: Toxic drill cuttings and fluid wastes are coming over the border from Pennsylvanian gas wells into ill-equipped New York landfills and treatment centers, endangering the drinking water of millions. Even though fracking chemicals arrive at the drilling site as regulated hazardous materials, federal and state exemptions allow drillers to treat the same drilling wastes leaving the site as standard industrial waste. This bill will update current regulations so that all resulting waste from natural gas drilling meets the definition of hazardous waste under New York State law.

A.3245 Lifton/S.3472 Oppenheimer -- Restoring Local Protections Over Natural Gas Development (Home Rule): This bill will clarify a local government’s right to enact and enforce zoning laws within their jurisdiction to protect them from the negative impacts of oil and gas development. The burden of oil and gas development is an unfunded mandate on upstate communities if they are not allowed to use the most basic land-use planning tools to protect unique local assets.


If you would like to do more, call these members of the Senate Rules Committee:

Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos: (518) 455-3171
Senator James Alesi: (518) 455-2015

Senator Hugh Farley: (518) 455-2181
Senator Kemp Hannon: (518) 455-2200
Senator William Larkin: (518) 455-2770
Senator Kenneth LaValle: (518) 455-3121
Senator Thomas Libous: (518) 455-2677
Senator Carl Marcellino: (518) 455-2390
Senator George Maziarz: (518) 455-2024
Senator Michael Nozzolio: (518) 455-2366
Senator Stephen Saland: (518) 455-2411
Senator James Seward: (518) 455-3131
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 05:09 PM

Rich, I'm more concerned about the state passing a bill about Gay Marriage than I am about Gas Drillers polluting our beautiful water ways.
Posted by: Rich_Tallcot

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 05:38 PM

Harley - you can bet they will pass a gay marriage bill just to collect the license fees. Then they will lose three times as much on state income tax from the deductions.

I think these frack bills are good and those interetsed may contact theor reps, but I don't expect the State legislature to do anything.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 06:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Rich, I'm more concerned about the state passing a bill about Gay Marriage than I am about Gas Drillers polluting our beautiful water ways.
Wow. Your priorities are nothing short of amazing.
Posted by: looseleaf

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 07:18 PM

It's time to drill, with controls. Allowing energy companies to tap the Marcellus shale will mean jobs, increased prosperity and a general improvement in the Upstate economy. Those against this process which has been proven over 60 years are misinformed and most likely being misled by the same people who invested their hope in the left and are still waiting for their $change$. License the energy companies, inspect their work and punish violations, but drill we must. Farmers have caused more damage to the lakes than fracking will cause. Manure, chemical runoff and mud from sloppy practices are the existing threats to our drinking water, not regulated energy production.
Posted by: Senecamom

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 07:41 PM

NO FRACKING!!!!
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 07:48 PM

Originally Posted By: looseleaf
It's time to drill, with controls. Allowing energy companies to tap the Marcellus shale will mean jobs, increased prosperity and a general improvement in the Upstate economy. Those against this process which has been proven over 60 years are misinformed and most likely being misled by the same people who invested their hope in the left and are still waiting for their $change$. License the energy companies, inspect their work and punish violations, but drill we must. Farmers have caused more damage to the lakes than fracking will cause. Manure, chemical runoff and mud from sloppy practices are the existing threats to our drinking water, not regulated energy production.



Exactly you are 100% correct. These activist phonies need to find something better to do with their time instead of trying to stand in the way of progress. NY needs jobs and money and gas drilling will bring both.
Posted by: Senecamom

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 07:55 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: looseleaf
It's time to drill, with controls. Allowing energy companies to tap the Marcellus shale will mean jobs, increased prosperity and a general improvement in the Upstate economy. Those against this process which has been proven over 60 years are misinformed and most likely being misled by the same people who invested their hope in the left and are still waiting for their $change$. License the energy companies, inspect their work and punish violations, but drill we must. Farmers have caused more damage to the lakes than fracking will cause. Manure, chemical runoff and mud from sloppy practices are the existing threats to our drinking water, not regulated energy production.



Exactly you are 100% correct. These activist phonies need to find something better to do with their time instead of trying to stand in the way of progress. NY needs jobs and money and gas drilling will bring both.


Pfft.
Posted by: A Better SF

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 09:00 PM

Go to some of the Pennsylvania communities that have allowed hydrofracking, as I have. It has torn the communities apart.

At the very least we need more information and more resident input before this kind of mining is allowed in our community. The dump is bad enough - how much more pollution does our groundwater need...
Posted by: Rich_Tallcot

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 09:03 PM

Originally Posted By: looseleaf
It's time to drill, with controls. License the energy companies, inspect their work and punish violations, but drill we must.
The problem is that there are NO controls and it is NOT regulated. Halliburton's lobbyists got the feds to exempt this process even from federal EPA regulation. So without passing one or more of these bills at the State level, there is no regulation at all. Local zoning laws do not apply.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By: A Better SF
Go to some of the Pennsylvania communities that have allowed hydrofracking, as I have. It has torn the communities apart.

At the very least we need more information and more resident input before this kind of mining is allowed in our community. The dump is bad enough - how much more pollution does our groundwater need...





You have evidence of groundwater contamination. Show us the evidence we would all like to see it. You can't and you know it. You're just running your mouth and can't back up anything you say with actual physical evidence. Typical activist crap. Use scare tactics to stall everything. In the meantime there are no jobs or money in NY. Ask the people in Pa. how much the drilling has boosted the economy. They will tell you it has had a substantial impact. Yes there have problems in some isolated areas but the good far outweighs the bad.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: looseleaf
It's time to drill, with controls. License the energy companies, inspect their work and punish violations, but drill we must.
The problem is that there are NO controls and it is NOT regulated. Halliburton's lobbyists got the feds to exempt this process even from federal EPA regulation. So without passing one or more of these bills at the State level, there is no regulation at all. Local zoning laws do not apply.



To say there are no controls and drilling isn't regulated is a bunch of crap. Drilling in Pa. is regulated by the DEP and the EPA.
Posted by: Rich_Tallcot

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 09:23 PM

http://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org/node/290

and

http://catskillcitizens.org/index.cfm

http://njtoday.net/2011/06/13/nj-legislators-environmental-groups-call-for-nj-fracking-ban/

This backlash against fracking is reinforced by a report also released today by Food & Water Watch that highlights why natural gas drilling poses unacceptable risks to the American public. The Case for a Ban on Fracking shows how the natural gas industry's use of water-intensive, toxic, unregulated practices for natural gas extraction are compromising public health and polluting water resources necessary for human health and sanitation, businesses and agriculture.

"What we know and don't know about fracking is enough reason to ban it," said Jim Walsh, NJ Director of Food & Water Watch. "We are talking about our drinking water and a whole lot more," added Walsh.

Opponents of fracking cite the high potential for water and air pollution as a leading reason to ban the practice. Over 1,000 cases of water contamination have been reported near fracking sites. A study released by researchers at Duke University in April found methane levels in shallow drinking water wells near active gas drilling sites at a level 17 times higher than those near inactive ones. Similarly, a 2011 Cornell University study found that the process of fracking releases methane, which according to the EPA, is 21 times more damaging greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

"The first rule in public health and safety is do no harm and right now there is no fracking way that it is safe and a ban should be in place. Until we get rid of the Halliburton Loophole that exempts fracking from seven major federal environmental laws, including Superfund and the Clean Water Act, until all the different studies are done that independently analyze the impacts of fracking, we should not allow fracking to go forward. It is too risky to our environment and water supplies.

Read more: http://njtoday.net/2011/06/13/nj-legisla.../#ixzz1POvkENAI

for some light reading.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
http://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org/node/290

and

http://catskillcitizens.org/index.cfm

http://njtoday.net/2011/06/13/nj-legislators-environmental-groups-call-for-nj-fracking-ban/

This backlash against fracking is reinforced by a report also released today by Food & Water Watch that highlights why natural gas drilling poses unacceptable risks to the American public. The Case for a Ban on Fracking shows how the natural gas industry's use of water-intensive, toxic, unregulated practices for natural gas extraction are compromising public health and polluting water resources necessary for human health and sanitation, businesses and agriculture.

"What we know and don't know about fracking is enough reason to ban it," said Jim Walsh, NJ Director of Food & Water Watch. "We are talking about our drinking water and a whole lot more," added Walsh.

Opponents of fracking cite the high potential for water and air pollution as a leading reason to ban the practice. Over 1,000 cases of water contamination have been reported near fracking sites. A study released by researchers at Duke University in April found methane levels in shallow drinking water wells near active gas drilling sites at a level 17 times higher than those near inactive ones. Similarly, a 2011 Cornell University study found that the process of fracking releases methane, which according to the EPA, is 21 times more damaging greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

"The first rule in public health and safety is do no harm and right now there is no fracking way that it is safe and a ban should be in place. Until we get rid of the Halliburton Loophole that exempts fracking from seven major federal environmental laws, including Superfund and the Clean Water Act, until all the different studies are done that independently analyze the impacts of fracking, we should not allow fracking to go forward. It is too risky to our environment and water supplies.

Read more: http://njtoday.net/2011/06/13/nj-legisla.../#ixzz1POvkENAI

for some light reading.



Show me some real evidence not crap from activist groups. The fracking fluid that is used is the same fluid that was used to drill all the wells in southern SC and millions of wells nationwide. Why isn't water contamination showing up in SC where hundreds of wells have been drilled?
Posted by: Rich_Tallcot

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
To say there are no controls and drilling isn't regulated is a bunch of crap. Drilling in Pa. is regulated by the DEP and the EPA.
exempts fracking from seven major federal environmental laws, including Superfund and the Clean Water Act. The environmental laws do not apply. What are they regulating, the card playing?
Posted by: Rich_Tallcot

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Show me some real evidence not crap from activist groups. The fracking fluid that is used is the same fluid that was used to drill all the wells in southern SC and millions of wells nationwide. Why isn't water contamination showing up in SC where hundreds of wells have been drilled?
There is no telling what fluid was used anywhere because the gas industry isn't telling what they use. All I was mentioning is that there should be regulations to assure that it is safe before it is done. You obviously are not concerned about that.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 10:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: brainman
Show me some real evidence not crap from activist groups. The fracking fluid that is used is the same fluid that was used to drill all the wells in southern SC and millions of wells nationwide. Why isn't water contamination showing up in SC where hundreds of wells have been drilled?
There is no telling what fluid was used anywhere because the gas industry isn't telling what they use. All I was mentioning is that there should be regulations to assure that it is safe before it is done. You obviously are not concerned about that.


I agree there should be regulations but not stalling tactics like what is being done now. NY needs the economic benefits of drilling now not two years from now. As far as the contents of fracking fluid it has been widely published despite what anti-frackers claim. It's 95% water and the chemicals are listed on Chesapeake Energy's website or you can find the list at the DEC website.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 10:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: brainman
To say there are no controls and drilling isn't regulated is a bunch of crap. Drilling in Pa. is regulated by the DEP and the EPA.
exempts fracking from seven major federal environmental laws, including Superfund and the Clean Water Act. The environmental laws do not apply. What are they regulating, the card playing?



Where do you dream up your staements from? It has been widely publicized the fines that have been levied by the EPA and DEP for violations of enviromental laws.
Posted by: all seeing eye

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 10:51 PM

How is this???

Chesapeake handed record fine for Pennsylvania gas drillingBy Edward McAllister
NEW YORK | Tue May 17, 2011 3:44pm EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Pennsylvania regulators levied a record fine for contaminating drinking water against major natural gas producer Chesapeake Energy, a move that threatens to intensify a fierce debate over drilling for natural gas in the state.

The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection fined Chesapeake $900,000 for contaminating water supplies in Bradford County, a busy drilling area in the prolific Marcellus shale gas formation, the agency said on Tuesday. It was fined another $188,000 for a fire that injured three workers

The fine will again put a spotlight on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, a controversial process used to extract natural gas from shale formations, which involves blasting a mix of water, chemicals and sand into the rock.
While public criticism has recently been focused on the possible contamination from fracking waste products, Tuesday's action stems from complaints that the gas itself had seeped into the drinking water.
The agency began an investigation in 2010 after receiving complaints from residents about drinking water near Chesapeake shale gas drilling sites. The agency concluded that coBOSntamination was caused by improper well casing and cementing, allowing seepage from non-shale shallow gas formations.
"The water well contamination fine is the largest single penalty DEP has ever assessed against an oil and gas operator," said Mike Krancer, secretary for the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP).
"Our message to drillers and to the public is clear."
Chesapeake Energy said in a statement that it will pay the fines and has improved its cementing and casing practices since the investigation.
The incidents occurred in the Marcellus shale gas formation, which is estimated to hold enough natural gas to meet U.S. demand for a decade or more. Attention is being drawn to the region by groups concerned about possible health risks from fracking, especially in relation to drinking water.
Neighboring New York state, home to a smaller stretch of the Marcellus shale formation, has halted permissions for shale drilling while it mulls the affect on drinking water.
Chesapeake suspended completion of natural gas wells in Pennsylvania for three weeks after a well blowout on April 19 sent thousands of gallons of drilling fluid spewing into the surrounding area and into local waterways.
Well completion is work to prepare a site for production after drilling has been completed and involves fracking.


Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: A Better SF
Go to some of the Pennsylvania communities that have allowed hydrofracking, as I have. It has torn the communities apart.

At the very least we need more information and more resident input before this kind of mining is allowed in our community. The dump is bad enough - how much more pollution does our groundwater need...





You have evidence of groundwater contamination. Show us the evidence we would all like to see it. You can't and you know it. You're just running your mouth and can't back up anything you say with actual physical evidence. Typical activist crap. Use scare tactics to stall everything. In the meantime there are no jobs or money in NY. Ask the people in Pa. how much the drilling has boosted the economy. They will tell you it has had a substantial impact. Yes there have problems in some isolated areas but the good far outweighs the bad.
Posted by: all seeing eye

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 10:56 PM

Here's more food for thought:

Researchers Study Link To Earthquakes In Arkansas By SARAH EDDINGTON 04/20/11 11:41 PM ET

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- Two natural gas exploration companies have agreed to extend the shutdowns of two injection wells in Arkansas as researchers study whether the operations are linked to more than 1,000 unexplained earthquakes in the region, a state commission said Wednesday.Chesapeake Energy Corp. and Clarita Operating LLC asked to postpone a scheduled April 26 hearing on the shutdowns until the Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission's next meeting on May 24, said Shane Khoury, deputy director and general counsel for the commission.

Khoury said the commission agreed to the continuance provided the companies not restart injection well operations at the two wells, both located in Faulkner County, before the May hearing.

"It was fine with us," Khoury said. "Our goal was to request a 60-day continuance of the shutdown at that meeting anyway. The more time we have, the more confident we will be with results of study."

BHP Billiton acquired the well from Chesapeake on March 31, but Khoury said the transfer request has not yet been received, so the commission recognizes Chesapeake as the owner.

It was the second time the owners of the two wells have filed for a continuance, with the first occurring before the March 29 hearing. The wells are used to dispose of waste fluid from natural gas production.

Clarita and Chesapeake agreed March 4 to temporarily cease injection operations at the request of the commission so scientists could analyze whether injection well operations were possibly causing the tremors.

The commission has said preliminary studies showed evidence potentially linking injection activities with more than 1,000 quakes in the north-central cities of Greenbrier and Guy since September, including the largest quake to hit the state in 35 years – a magnitude 4.7 on Feb. 27.

Kris Sava, BHP Billiton spokesperson, said in a written statement that the company's goal is "to develop the Fayetteville shale in line with our values of ensuring we fully protect people, the environment and communities where we operate."

Posted by: mimi33

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 11:07 PM

The dangers of hydrofracking are well known, and to attempt to bring this into NY is disgusting. To continue to lie about the dangers of this industry is disgusting. To continue to lie to people in an attempt to pocket a few dollars is , disgusting. Just, how can you look at yourself in the mirror everyday and try to sell this crap to people? Really? I don't understand that part of it. You all know how dangerous this is and how it hurts people and yet you can wake up every morning, and put on your little tie or whatever, and then go and tell someone it's the best thing since sliced bread? Wow, remember that money isn't everything. Sometimes you have to have some self respect.
Posted by: Victoria Rose

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 11:16 PM

I think the puss pile on 414 is doing as much or more long term damage than we are told. The big money will win, as it has with the landfill. Once the wheels get rolling, any activist efforts are thwarted. As for voicing opposition to our legislators, look at thier track record. All talk, no reults.
Posted by: mimi33

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 11:20 PM

I think that short term thinking will prevail, as always. We live in the Finger Lakes, for goodness sakes. Do we really want to eff up our water? It's our most valuable resource!
Posted by: mimi33

Re: Frack legislation - 06/15/11 11:35 PM

Go to the EPA Website. Their studies are from February 2011, and they are still asking a lot of questions. I think it's just a bad idea, and needs to be put to bed. No hydrofracking, period. Anywhere.
Posted by: SportsNut

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 05:12 AM

Its funny how people say it is tearing apart towns in PA. Someone wrote into the newest issue of NY Outdoor News saying he took a drive to PA area where the spill was. He noticed the streams where full of fisherman (it was trout Season), also the towns where busy and there where NO HIRING SIGN'S in windows of local business, and he stated the mood of everyone was happy.

How many of you anti-frackers drive a car like the Toyota Prius ? People that own these think they are doing the best thing for the environment, but in reality they are cause more damage to the earth then Fracking.These eco friendly cars use 44 pounds of rare earth. Have you every seen a rare earth mine, google a picture of it and you will be amazed.Also you will notice China owns 90 percent of the worlds rare earth.
Google Toyota Prius and rare earth.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 05:21 AM

Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
How is this???

Chesapeake handed record fine for Pennsylvania gas drillingBy Edward McAllister
NEW YORK | Tue May 17, 2011 3:44pm EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Pennsylvania regulators levied a record fine for contaminating drinking water against major natural gas producer Chesapeake Energy, a move that threatens to intensify a fierce debate over drilling for natural gas in the state.

The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection fined Chesapeake $900,000 for contaminating water supplies in Bradford County, a busy drilling area in the prolific Marcellus shale gas formation, the agency said on Tuesday. It was fined another $188,000 for a fire that injured three workers

The fine will again put a spotlight on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, a controversial process used to extract natural gas from shale formations, which involves blasting a mix of water, chemicals and sand into the rock.
While public criticism has recently been focused on the possible contamination from fracking waste products, Tuesday's action stems from complaints that the gas itself had seeped into the drinking water.
The agency began an investigation in 2010 after receiving complaints from residents about drinking water near Chesapeake shale gas drilling sites. The agency concluded that coBOSntamination was caused by improper well casing and cementing, allowing seepage from non-shale shallow gas formations.
"The water well contamination fine is the largest single penalty DEP has ever assessed against an oil and gas operator," said Mike Krancer, secretary for the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP).
"Our message to drillers and to the public is clear."
Chesapeake Energy said in a statement that it will pay the fines and has improved its cementing and casing practices since the investigation.
The incidents occurred in the Marcellus shale gas formation, which is estimated to hold enough natural gas to meet U.S. demand for a decade or more. Attention is being drawn to the region by groups concerned about possible health risks from fracking, especially in relation to drinking water.
Neighboring New York state, home to a smaller stretch of the Marcellus shale formation, has halted permissions for shale drilling while it mulls the affect on drinking water.
Chesapeake suspended completion of natural gas wells in Pennsylvania for three weeks after a well blowout on April 19 sent thousands of gallons of drilling fluid spewing into the surrounding area and into local waterways.
Well completion is work to prepare a site for production after drilling has been completed and involves fracking.


Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: A Better SF
Go to some of the Pennsylvania communities that have allowed hydrofracking, as I have. It has torn the communities apart.

At the very least we need more information and more resident input before this kind of mining is allowed in our community. The dump is bad enough - how much more pollution does our groundwater need...





You have evidence of groundwater contamination. Show us the evidence we would all like to see it. You can't and you know it. You're just running your mouth and can't back up anything you say with actual physical evidence. Typical activist crap. Use scare tactics to stall everything. In the meantime there are no jobs or money in NY. Ask the people in Pa. how much the drilling has boosted the economy. They will tell you it has had a substantial impact. Yes there have problems in some isolated areas but the good far outweighs the bad.



You people are saying there is no regulation and no enforcement. Which story you are trying to push is the accurate one?
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 05:25 AM

Originally Posted By: mimi33
Go to the EPA Website. Their studies are from February 2011, and they are still asking a lot of questions. I think it's just a bad idea, and needs to be put to bed. No hydrofracking, period. Anywhere.



You're a close minded thinker. SC has hundreds of gas wells already with no harm to the enviroment. There are millions nationwide. People like you are why NY is in the shape it is in. No jobs or money.
Posted by: looseleaf

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 06:46 AM

Lemmings. Remember Alar? Apples were going to kill us. Nuclear power was going to crash and burn all the way to China and take us with it. Global warming? YY2K? Each of those panics were led by the same mobs who now want us to believe that meeting the nation's engery needs and creating jobs in a ravished ecomony (wrecked by their president) is going to ruin our environment. Loon groups always lead the way with this stuff...they take incidental information and call it science.
Posted by: Greymane

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 07:25 AM

Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Its funny how people say it is tearing apart towns in PA. Someone wrote into the newest issue of NY Outdoor News saying he took a drive to PA area where the spill was. He noticed the streams where full of fisherman (it was trout Season), also the towns where busy and there where NO HIRING SIGN'S in windows of local business, and he stated the mood of everyone was happy.

How many of you anti-frackers drive a car like the Toyota Prius ? People that own these think they are doing the best thing for the environment, but in reality they are cause more damage to the earth then Fracking.These eco friendly cars use 44 pounds of rare earth. Have you every seen a rare earth mine, google a picture of it and you will be amazed.Also you will notice China owns 90 percent of the worlds rare earth.
Google Toyota Prius and rare earth.


Hey, Nuts, I would love to know exactly what planet this person was on. I am from PA and most of my family still lives there. NO HIRING signs? Busy towns? The reason everyone is fishing is because there ARE NO JOBS!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 08:00 AM

Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Here's more food for thought:

Researchers Study Link To Earthquakes In Arkansas By SARAH EDDINGTON 04/20/11 11:41 PM ET

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- Two natural gas exploration companies have agreed to extend the shutdowns of two injection wells in Arkansas as researchers study whether the operations are linked to more than 1,000 unexplained earthquakes in the region, a state commission said Wednesday.Chesapeake Energy Corp. and Clarita Operating LLC asked to postpone a scheduled April 26 hearing on the shutdowns until the Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission's next meeting on May 24, said Shane Khoury, deputy director and general counsel for the commission.
Wow. 1,000 earthquakes from drilling! Now who was the first guy to suggest that on here and get laughed at by some wise guy?
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 08:48 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Wow. 1,000 earthquakes from drilling! Now who was the first guy to suggest that on here and get laughed at by some wise guy?


Don't worry kyle everyone will still laugh at you.

We need to stop worrying about fracking and earthquakes! We need to focus all our energy on getting the Gay Marriage bill passed!
Posted by: looseleaf

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 09:17 AM

If you lemmings want something to fear, look at these links and then think about the web of salt mines operating beneath the full breadth of Cayuga Lake and under Seneca Lake. Then think about a bathtub effect....a real giant sucking sound....

http://www.damninteresting.com/lake-peigneur-the-swirling-vortex-of-doom/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_feWtkSucvE

http://ny.water.usgs.gov/pubs/fs/fs01798/FS017-98.pdf
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 09:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Wow. 1,000 earthquakes from drilling! Now who was the first guy to suggest that on here and get laughed at by some wise guy?
Don't worry kyle everyone will still laugh at you.

We need to stop worrying about fracking and earthquakes! We need to focus all our energy on getting the Gay Marriage bill passed!
You are so worried about that Gay Marriage bill makes me think you have a male lover waiting for you?
Posted by: DeadDave

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 10:55 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Wow. 1,000 earthquakes from drilling! Now who was the first guy to suggest that on here and get laughed at by some wise guy?
Don't worry kyle everyone will still laugh at you.

We need to stop worrying about fracking and earthquakes! We need to focus all our energy on getting the Gay Marriage bill passed!
You are so worried about that Gay Marriage bill makes me think you have a male lover waiting for you?
are u looking for a date?
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 11:11 AM

From Finger Lakes regarding BOS meeting:

Approved a motion urging the state to require a separate Environmental Impact Statement for each horizontally-drilled, hydraulic fractured natural gas well that may be drilled in the Finger Lakes.

In committee, it was noted that a request to the state to impose the same environmental protections for the Finger Lakes watersheds as it plans to impose for the Syracuse and New York City watersheds was removed.

Local farmers Frederick Jensen and Douglas Freier voiced support for expanded natural gas drilling in the county. They said technology has improved to minimize environmental damage. And they touted the economic benefits to landowners from leases.

The committee approved the motion 3-2. Michael Reynolds, R-Covert, and Walt Prouty, R-Ovid, were opposed. When it came to the full board, it was approved 7-4, with a weighted vote of 435-183, with 133 votes absent.

Supporters said there are significant concerns about nvironmental damage to ground and surface water and pollution from the chemical-laden hydrofracking fluids.
Posted by: SportsNut

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 11:17 AM

No Jobs in PA, that is funny. I have some buddies that work in the Local Labor's Union, and they got a letter a couple weeks ago saying that if they wanted to work, the only jobs in the area are in PA working on the pipe lines and gas wells.One friend went back to work last week in PA on a pipe line, and they said they will be hiring another 200 people soon. This is in the Manfield's Area.
Posted by: looseleaf

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 11:40 AM

People in PA hate 'fracking? Read this: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1327.xml?ReleaseID=1610
Posted by: LittleKing

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 12:01 PM

I'm very surprised to see the anti-Indian crusaders supporting state anti-Frack laws.

The only thing those laws will accomplish in Seneca and Cayuga Counties is create more unfair competition.

The Cayugas will buy up land in the claim area, claim exemption from environmental regulations and then frack away to their heart's content. In addition, because gas can "travel" from parcel to parcel, they'll be able to suck up the gas under land they don't own as well.

As a result, the non-Indian landowners will lose out on their royalties while the tribes will get richer.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/16/11 09:17 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Here's more food for thought:

Researchers Study Link To Earthquakes In Arkansas By SARAH EDDINGTON 04/20/11 11:41 PM ET

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- Two natural gas exploration companies have agreed to extend the shutdowns of two injection wells in Arkansas as researchers study whether the operations are linked to more than 1,000 unexplained earthquakes in the region, a state commission said Wednesday.Chesapeake Energy Corp. and Clarita Operating LLC asked to postpone a scheduled April 26 hearing on the shutdowns until the Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission's next meeting on May 24, said Shane Khoury, deputy director and general counsel for the commission.
Wow. 1,000 earthquakes from drilling! Now who was the first guy to suggest that on here and get laughed at by some wise guy?



There's no evidence just theories like yours Kyle. We all know how good yours are don't we Kyle.
Posted by: DeadDave

Re: Frack legislation - 06/17/11 05:55 AM

Originally Posted By: DeadDave
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Wow. 1,000 earthquakes from drilling! Now who was the first guy to suggest that on here and get laughed at by some wise guy?
Don't worry kyle everyone will still laugh at you.

We need to stop worrying about fracking and earthquakes! We need to focus all our energy on getting the Gay Marriage bill passed!
You are so worried about that Gay Marriage bill makes me think you have a male lover waiting for you?
are u looking for a date?
Kyle did Bob quake ur world yet?
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/17/11 10:38 AM

Originally Posted By: DeadDave
Originally Posted By: DeadDave
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Wow. 1,000 earthquakes from drilling! Now who was the first guy to suggest that on here and get laughed at by some wise guy?
Don't worry kyle everyone will still laugh at you.

We need to stop worrying about fracking and earthquakes! We need to focus all our energy on getting the Gay Marriage bill passed!
You are so worried about that Gay Marriage bill makes me think you have a male lover waiting for you?
are u looking for a date?
Kyle did Bob quake ur world yet?
Ahahahahaha...Dave, I don't swing that way!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/17/11 11:39 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Here's more food for thought:

Researchers Study Link To Earthquakes In Arkansas [/size] By SARAH EDDINGTON 04/20/11 11:41 PM ET

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- Two natural gas exploration companies have agreed to extend the shutdowns of two injection wells in Arkansas as researchers study whether the operations are linked to more than 1,000 unexplained earthquakes in the region, a state commission said Wednesday.[/size]Chesapeake Energy Corp. and Clarita Operating LLC asked to postpone a scheduled April 26 hearing on the shutdowns until the Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission's next meeting on May 24, said Shane Khoury, deputy director and general counsel for the commission.
Wow. 1,000 earthquakes from drilling! Now who was the first guy to suggest that on here and get laughed at by some wise guy?
There's no evidence just theories like yours Kyle. We all know how good yours are don't we Kyle.
I heard a rumor that the earth revolves around the sun. Can you prove that or is that just a theory?
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/17/11 11:46 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Here's more food for thought:

Researchers Study Link To Earthquakes In Arkansas [/size] By SARAH EDDINGTON 04/20/11 11:41 PM ET

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- Two natural gas exploration companies have agreed to extend the shutdowns of two injection wells in Arkansas as researchers study whether the operations are linked to more than 1,000 unexplained earthquakes in the region, a state commission said Wednesday.[/size]Chesapeake Energy Corp. and Clarita Operating LLC asked to postpone a scheduled April 26 hearing on the shutdowns until the Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission's next meeting on May 24, said Shane Khoury, deputy director and general counsel for the commission.
Wow. 1,000 earthquakes from drilling! Now who was the first guy to suggest that on here and get laughed at by some wise guy?
There's no evidence just theories like yours Kyle. We all know how good yours are don't we Kyle.
I heard a rumor that the earth revolves around the sun. Can you prove that or is that just a theory?
I heard a rumor you think that everyone on this planet revolves you and the Messiah Bradford Jones...AAAAAmeeeeeem
Posted by: Here's Johnny

Re: Frack legislation - 06/17/11 02:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Here's more food for thought:

Researchers Study Link To Earthquakes In Arkansas [/size] By SARAH EDDINGTON 04/20/11 11:41 PM ET

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- Two natural gas exploration companies have agreed to extend the shutdowns of two injection wells in Arkansas as researchers study whether the operations are linked to more than 1,000 unexplained earthquakes in the region, a state commission said Wednesday.[/size]Chesapeake Energy Corp. and Clarita Operating LLC asked to postpone a scheduled April 26 hearing on the shutdowns until the Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission's next meeting on May 24, said Shane Khoury, deputy director and general counsel for the commission.
Wow. 1,000 earthquakes from drilling! Now who was the first guy to suggest that on here and get laughed at by some wise guy?
There's no evidence just theories like yours Kyle. We all know how good yours are don't we Kyle.
I heard a rumor that the earth revolves around the sun. Can you prove that or is that just a theory?
I heard a rumor you think that everyone on this planet revolves you and the Messiah Bradford Jones...AAAAAmeeeeeem


Sooner deal with Brad than throw backs.
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation *DELETED* - 06/17/11 03:39 PM

Post deleted by FL1 Mod 2
Posted by: Here's Johnny

Re: Frack legislation - 06/17/11 05:54 PM

Given the glacial pace of our State Legislature it is a miracle that this will "perhaps" occur. Great. The only thing they could do this year was gay marriage and maybe, just maybe, it won't happen. That isn't much comfort. Actually I am pretty much convinced that we are screwed. Douchebags are in charge and with all the stuff out there to do they almost think they may pass gay marriage. Thanks for nothing. GTFOH!!!!!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/19/11 08:04 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43443146/ns/business-us_business/t/water-new-liquid-gold-texas/

Bruce Frasier sweats in the 106-degree heat at his Carrizo Springs, Texas, farm while stacking 42-pound boxes of cantaloupes bound for Kroger supermarkets and Wal-Mart Stores. But he's turning away all offers for his most prized commodity: water. Texas's worst drought since record-keeping began in 1895 is fueling a rally in water prices as energy prospectors from ExxonMobil to Korea National Oil expand the use of a drilling technique known as hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, that uses up to 13 million gallons in a single well.

Frasier, whose Dixondale Farms is the state's largest cantaloupe grower, has been offered as much as 70 cents per 42-gallon barrel of water he pumps from an aquifer beneath his land. That same water fetched no price at all as recently as three years ago, before oil exploration boomed in Texas's Eagle Ford Shale rock formation. So far, Frasier is standing firm. "I've got to have that water for my farming operation," he explains.

With the region having received less than 2 inches of rainfall since Oct. 1, oil producers are buying water from anyone willing to sell. "It's pretty dry down here and a lot of oil companies are looking for water," says Robert Mace, a deputy executive administrator at the Texas Water Development Board.

The water crisis in Texas, the biggest oil- and gas-producing state in the United States, highlights a continuing debate in North America and Europe over fracking's impact on water supplies. Environmentalists say the method poses a contamination threat, while farmers face growing competition for scarce water.

Fracking is a 60-year-old method of shattering rocks to unleash oil and natural gas with high-pressure jets of sand- and chemical-infused water. In the past decade, the technique has been refined and coupled with new ways of drilling sideways through oil-rich shale formations, spurring an onshore exploration boom, says Robert Ineson, senior director of global gas at researcher IHS CERA.

The Eagle Ford's peculiar geology means each well fracked requires an amount of water equivalent to that used by 240 adults in an entire year for cooking, washing and drinking. A study by the Texas Water Development Board and the University of Texas at Austin's Bureau of Economic Geology estimates fracking-water demand in the area will jump tenfold by 2020 and double again by 2030. "This is not the drilling your grandparents knew in West Texas," says Sharon Wilson, an organizer for Earthworks' Oil & Gas Accountability Project, which lobbies for tougher regulation of oil drillers. "It's a heavy industrial activity with massive amounts of water and chemicals."

For now, local water departments, farmers and oil drillers near Laredo are relying on water from two reservoirs and underground aquifers filled by last summer's tropical storm season. But that won't last forever.

The bottom line: A record drought in Texas is boosting water prices and competition between agricultural and energy interests over the commodity.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/19/11 08:32 AM

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_11/b4219025777026.htm?campaign_id=msnbc

The Pennsylvania homes of Karl Wasner and Arline LaTourette both sit atop the Marcellus Shale, a geologic formation that stretches from Tennessee to New York and holds vast deposits of natural gas. They also sit on opposite sides of a national debate over hydraulic fracturing, or fracking. That's the process that makes it economical for energy companies to tunnel 5,000 feet below ground and remove the gas—but also poses environmental risks.

Wasner settled 14 years ago in Milanville, in the state's northeast corner, and will leave if drilling companies set up derricks nearby. He already moved away for six weeks last year while an exploratory well was drilled nearby. The noise, muddy water pouring from his taps, and chemicals that turned up in a neighbor's well drove him off, he says. "I moved to a beautiful rural residential area," says Wasner, "not an industrial park."
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/19/11 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_11/b4219025777026.htm?campaign_id=msnbc

The Pennsylvania homes of Karl Wasner and Arline LaTourette both sit atop the Marcellus Shale, a geologic formation that stretches from Tennessee to New York and holds vast deposits of natural gas. They also sit on opposite sides of a national debate over hydraulic fracturing, or fracking. That's the process that makes it economical for energy companies to tunnel 5,000 feet below ground and remove the gas—but also poses environmental risks.

Wasner settled 14 years ago in Milanville, in the state's northeast corner, and will leave if drilling companies set up derricks nearby. He already moved away for six weeks last year while an exploratory well was drilled nearby. The noise, muddy water pouring from his taps, and chemicals that turned up in a neighbor's well drove him off, he says. "I moved to a beautiful rural residential area," says Wasner, "not an industrial park."



What do you think a industrial work zone is going to be like? If people like you used a little common sense which I know is hard for some you would realize this is not a forever thing. Once the wells are drilled and the pipe is run everything will return to normal and you won't even know anything ever happened there. Drive through southern SC with all the gas wells that are drilled there and show me where there are any problems. You can't. This is just another case of idiots blowing everything way out of proportion with no facts to back up anything they say. That's normal for you though Kyle. First the landfill,then the oil spill and now fracking. People should realize by now what kind of person you are and just ignore you and your theories because we all know how valuable they are. You can't back up anything with facts and can only use scare tactics to get your point across.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/21/11 01:13 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43479398/ns/world_news-world_environment/

WASHINGTON — Mass extinctions of species in the world's oceans are inevitable if current trends of overfishing, habitat loss, global warming and pollution continue, a panel of renowned marine scientists warned Tuesday.

The combination of problems suggests there's a brewing worldwide die-off of species that would rival past mass extinctions, the 27 scientists said in a preliminary report presented to the United Nations.

Vanishing species — from sea turtles to coral — would upend the ocean's ecosystem. Fish are the main source of protein for a fifth of the world's population and the seas cycle oxygen and help absorb carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas from human activities.

"Things seem to be going wrong on several different levels," said Carl Lundin, director of global marine programs at the International Union for Conservation of Nature, which helped produce the report with the International Programme on the State of the Ocean.

Some of the changes affecting the world's seas — which have been warned about individually in the past — are happening faster than the worst case scenarios that were predicted just a few years ago, the report said.

"It was a more dire report than any of us thought because we look at our own little issues," Lundin said. "When you put them all together, it's a pretty bleak situation."

Climate and coral

Coral deaths alone would be considered a mass extinction, according to study chief author Alex Rogers of the University of Oxford. A single bleaching event in 1998 killed one-sixth of the world's tropical coral reefs.

Lundin pointed to deaths of 1,000-year-old coral in the Indian Ocean and called it "really unprecedented."

"Not only are we already experiencing severe declines in many species to the point of commercial extinction in some cases, and an unparalleled rate of regional extinctions of habitat types (e.g. mangroves and seagrass meadows), but we now face losing marine species and entire marine ecosystems, such as coral reefs, within a single generation," the experts said.

The chief causes for extinctions at the moment are overfishing and habitat loss, but global warming is "increasingly adding to this," the report said.

Carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels ends up sinking in the oceans, which then become more acidic, devastating sensitive coral reefs. Warmer ocean temperatures also are shifting species from their normal habitats, Rogers said. Non-native species moving into new areas can cause havoc to those ecosystems.
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/21/11 01:58 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43479398/ns/world_news-world_environment/

WASHINGTON — Mass extinctions of species in the world's oceans are inevitable if current trends of overfishing, habitat loss, global warming and pollution continue, a panel of renowned marine scientists warned Tuesday.

The combination of problems suggests there's a brewing worldwide die-off of species that would rival past mass extinctions, the 27 scientists said in a preliminary report presented to the United Nations.

Vanishing species — from sea turtles to coral — would upend the ocean's ecosystem. Fish are the main source of protein for a fifth of the world's population and the seas cycle oxygen and help absorb carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas from human activities.

"Things seem to be going wrong on several different levels," said Carl Lundin, director of global marine programs at the International Union for Conservation of Nature, which helped produce the report with the International Programme on the State of the Ocean.

Some of the changes affecting the world's seas — which have been warned about individually in the past — are happening faster than the worst case scenarios that were predicted just a few years ago, the report said.

"It was a more dire report than any of us thought because we look at our own little issues," Lundin said. "When you put them all together, it's a pretty bleak situation."

Climate and coral

Coral deaths alone would be considered a mass extinction, according to study chief author Alex Rogers of the University of Oxford. A single bleaching event in 1998 killed one-sixth of the world's tropical coral reefs.

Lundin pointed to deaths of 1,000-year-old coral in the Indian Ocean and called it "really unprecedented."

"Not only are we already experiencing severe declines in many species to the point of commercial extinction in some cases, and an unparalleled rate of regional extinctions of habitat types (e.g. mangroves and seagrass meadows), but we now face losing marine species and entire marine ecosystems, such as coral reefs, within a single generation," the experts said.

The chief causes for extinctions at the moment are overfishing and habitat loss, but global warming is "increasingly adding to this," the report said.

Carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels ends up sinking in the oceans, which then become more acidic, devastating sensitive coral reefs. Warmer ocean temperatures also are shifting species from their normal habitats, Rogers said. Non-native species moving into new areas can cause havoc to those ecosystems.




Ahahahahahahahahq... I can't stop laughing. That's part of life on this planet screwball. You forget everything that is alive today will be dead sooner or later. And you need to understand nobody gets off this rock alive, stop fearing the other side of life (death) and start living!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/21/11 02:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43479398/ns/world_news-world_environment/

WASHINGTON — Mass extinctions of species in the world's oceans are inevitable if current trends of overfishing, habitat loss, global warming and pollution continue, a panel of renowned marine scientists warned Tuesday.

Ahahahahahahahahq... I can't stop laughing. That's part of life on this planet screwball. You forget everything that is alive today will be dead sooner or later. And you need to understand nobody gets off this rock alive, stop fearing the other side of life (death) and start living!
I would like to see the current generation of humans leave a healthy planet for future generations. Apparently you don't care if we do or not?
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/21/11 02:32 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43479398/ns/world_news-world_environment/

WASHINGTON — Mass extinctions of species in the world's oceans are inevitable if current trends of overfishing, habitat loss, global warming and pollution continue, a panel of renowned marine scientists warned Tuesday.

Ahahahahahahahahq... I can't stop laughing. That's part of life on this planet screwball. You forget everything that is alive today will be dead sooner or later. And you need to understand nobody gets off this rock alive, stop fearing the other side of life (death) and start living!
I would like to see the current generation of humans leave a healthy planet for future generations. Apparently you don't care if we do or not?
They need help in Afghanistan maybe you can help?
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/21/11 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43479398/ns/world_news-world_environment/

WASHINGTON — Mass extinctions of species in the world's oceans are inevitable if current trends of overfishing, habitat loss, global warming and pollution continue, a panel of renowned marine scientists warned Tuesday.

The combination of problems suggests there's a brewing worldwide die-off of species that would rival past mass extinctions, the 27 scientists said in a preliminary report presented to the United Nations.

Vanishing species — from sea turtles to coral — would upend the ocean's ecosystem. Fish are the main source of protein for a fifth of the world's population and the seas cycle oxygen and help absorb carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas from human activities.

"Things seem to be going wrong on several different levels," said Carl Lundin, director of global marine programs at the International Union for Conservation of Nature, which helped produce the report with the International Programme on the State of the Ocean.

Some of the changes affecting the world's seas — which have been warned about individually in the past — are happening faster than the worst case scenarios that were predicted just a few years ago, the report said.

"It was a more dire report than any of us thought because we look at our own little issues," Lundin said. "When you put them all together, it's a pretty bleak situation."

Climate and coral

Coral deaths alone would be considered a mass extinction, according to study chief author Alex Rogers of the University of Oxford. A single bleaching event in 1998 killed one-sixth of the world's tropical coral reefs.

Lundin pointed to deaths of 1,000-year-old coral in the Indian Ocean and called it "really unprecedented."

"Not only are we already experiencing severe declines in many species to the point of commercial extinction in some cases, and an unparalleled rate of regional extinctions of habitat types (e.g. mangroves and seagrass meadows), but we now face losing marine species and entire marine ecosystems, such as coral reefs, within a single generation," the experts said.

The chief causes for extinctions at the moment are overfishing and habitat loss, but global warming is "increasingly adding to this," the report said.

Carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels ends up sinking in the oceans, which then become more acidic, devastating sensitive coral reefs. Warmer ocean temperatures also are shifting species from their normal habitats, Rogers said. Non-native species moving into new areas can cause havoc to those ecosystems.
How come you only posted half the article?
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/21/11 11:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43479398/ns/world_news-world_environment/

WASHINGTON — Mass extinctions of species in the world's oceans are inevitable if current trends of overfishing, habitat loss, global warming and pollution continue, a panel of renowned marine scientists warned Tuesday.

The combination of problems suggests there's a brewing worldwide die-off of species that would rival past mass extinctions, the 27 scientists said in a preliminary report presented to the United Nations.

Vanishing species — from sea turtles to coral — would upend the ocean's ecosystem. Fish are the main source of protein for a fifth of the world's population and the seas cycle oxygen and help absorb carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas from human activities.

"Things seem to be going wrong on several different levels," said Carl Lundin, director of global marine programs at the International Union for Conservation of Nature, which helped produce the report with the International Programme on the State of the Ocean.

Some of the changes affecting the world's seas — which have been warned about individually in the past — are happening faster than the worst case scenarios that were predicted just a few years ago, the report said.

"It was a more dire report than any of us thought because we look at our own little issues," Lundin said. "When you put them all together, it's a pretty bleak situation."

Climate and coral

Coral deaths alone would be considered a mass extinction, according to study chief author Alex Rogers of the University of Oxford. A single bleaching event in 1998 killed one-sixth of the world's tropical coral reefs.

Lundin pointed to deaths of 1,000-year-old coral in the Indian Ocean and called it "really unprecedented."

"Not only are we already experiencing severe declines in many species to the point of commercial extinction in some cases, and an unparalleled rate of regional extinctions of habitat types (e.g. mangroves and seagrass meadows), but we now face losing marine species and entire marine ecosystems, such as coral reefs, within a single generation," the experts said.

The chief causes for extinctions at the moment are overfishing and habitat loss, but global warming is "increasingly adding to this," the report said.

Carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels ends up sinking in the oceans, which then become more acidic, devastating sensitive coral reefs. Warmer ocean temperatures also are shifting species from their normal habitats, Rogers said. Non-native species moving into new areas can cause havoc to those ecosystems.
How come you only posted half the article?



That's Kyle's MO. Selective censorship.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: Frack legislation - 06/22/11 12:40 AM

Quote:
I would like to see the current generation of humans leave a healthy planet for future generations.


Seems like a lot of bother. Wouldn't it be easier if humans just went extinct?
Posted by: DeadDave

Re: Frack legislation - 06/22/11 07:08 AM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
I would like to see the current generation of humans leave a healthy planet for future generations.


Seems like a lot of bother. Wouldn't it be easier if humans just went extinct?
the debate goes back to gay marriage . Harley is ahead of the curve on this one!
Posted by: Greymane

Re: Frack legislation - 06/22/11 07:32 AM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
I would like to see the current generation of humans leave a healthy planet for future generations.


Seems like a lot of bother. Wouldn't it be easier if humans just went extinct?


That would certainly be the easiest solution. Mother Earth figured things out before we got here and she will figure things out long after we are gone.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/22/11 08:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
How come you only posted half the article?
I posted the link so that those who are interested could read the whole long article.
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/22/11 09:54 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
How come you only posted half the article?
I posted the link so that those who are interested could read the whole long article.
Are these the same scientists that cooked the books on the global warming scam?
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/22/11 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
How come you only posted half the article?
I posted the link so that those who are interested could read the whole long article.
Are these the same scientists that cooked the books on the global warming scam?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/science/earth/23gore.html?_r=1&hpw

Former Vice President Al Gore sharply criticized President Obama for lack of leadership on climate change in a magazine essay published online on Wednesday, saying his policies had been little more effective than those of President George W. Bush.

In the 7,000-word article in Rolling Stone, Mr. Gore said that Mr. Obama clearly understood the threat to the planet posed by global warming and that he had appointed a number of committed environmental advocates to key positions.

But Mr. Gore charged that in the face of well-financed attacks from fossil fuel industries and denial and delay from Republicans in Congress, Mr. Obama had failed to act decisively to alter the nation’s policies on climate change and energy.

Addressing climate change on a national and international level will require forceful American leadership, Mr. Gore said.

“Yet President Obama has never presented to the American people the magnitude of the climate crisis,” Mr. Gore wrote. “He has simply not made the case for action. He has not defended the science against the ongoing, withering and dishonest attacks. Nor has he provided a presidential venue for the scientific community — including our own National Academy — to bring the reality of the science before the public.”
Posted by: SportsNut

Re: Frack legislation - 06/22/11 04:38 PM

You posted Al Gore that is funny. Look at his house.He uses more energy most people and George Bush's house. And GOre talks about being green. LOL


http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/22/11 05:07 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
How come you only posted half the article?
I posted the link so that those who are interested could read the whole long article.
Are these the same scientists that cooked the books on the global warming scam?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/science/earth/23gore.html?_r=1&hpw

Former Vice President Al Gore sharply criticized President Obama for lack of leadership on climate change in a magazine essay published online on Wednesday, saying his policies had been little more effective than those of President George W. Bush.

In the 7,000-word article in Rolling Stone, Mr. Gore said that Mr. Obama clearly understood the threat to the planet posed by global warming and that he had appointed a number of committed environmental advocates to key positions.

But Mr. Gore charged that in the face of well-financed attacks from fossil fuel industries and denial and delay from Republicans in Congress, Mr. Obama had failed to act decisively to alter the nation’s policies on climate change and energy.

Addressing climate change on a national and international level will require forceful American leadership, Mr. Gore said.

“Yet President Obama has never presented to the American people the magnitude of the climate crisis,” Mr. Gore wrote. “He has simply not made the case for action. He has not defended the science against the ongoing, withering and dishonest attacks. Nor has he provided a presidential venue for the scientific community — including our own National Academy — to bring the reality of the science before the public.”

Ahahahah...Al the Groper Gore the guys is a load of human waste!
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/23/11 07:27 AM

I'll bet you bought into the line crap of the International Council of Local Environmental Initiatives?
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/23/11 10:36 AM

From today's FL Times:

To the Editor:

Tuesday night 45 people, most of them representatives of of Yates County towns, met at the First Presbyterian Church in Penn Yan to hear Community Environmental Defense Council attorney Helen Holden Slottje speak on the legal options available to towns in the face of destructive high-volume hydraulic fracture gas drilling that could soon be widespread in Yates County.

Slottje said that towns have much more authority than they often realize. While they do not have power to regulate the process of gas drilling, they do have considerable powers to protect the health, safety and welfare of people in their towns — including authority to preempt gas companies and landowners from pursuing unsafe or deleterious actions to other people or interests within the towns.

She explained that it is one of the oldest principles in property law that one person’s right to do what he wants with his own property does not include the right to harm his neighbors or their property. Under New York state’s power of Home Rule, towns themselves have broad powers to protect their citizens and local character, a very different system than exists in Pennsylvania and most other states. For example, towns not only have the right to regulate their roads but also to control inappropriate activities by way of comprehensive zoning. Such inappropriate activities may also include those that are likely to be detrimental to established traditions and local values — for instance, a tourist region, residential area or sensitive agricultural land that might be ruined by heavy industrialization like hydrofracking.

To create effective town ordinances, Slottje stressed that each town should consider the specific dangers to its own distinct character and needs, and not allow itself to be pushed into a one-size-fits-all mold.

She also made it clear that each town needed to act on its own behalf and needed to define its rules before the fracking industry took hold, as power to limit such heavy industrialization would be greatly diminished after the fact. Slottje’s clear warning was that towns should not expect the state or federal government to protect them, that they needed to use their Home Rule and zoning powers to protect themselves — and they needed to act soon, while they still could.

STEVE COFFMAN
Committee to Protect the
Finger Lakes
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/23/11 10:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
I'll bet you bought into the line crap of the International Council of Local Environmental Initiatives?
kyle did you buy it to this crap??
Posted by: SportsNut

Re: Frack legislation - 06/23/11 02:42 PM

I guess this lawyer Helen Holden Slottje better read the NYS Home rules alittle better. It says Localities have very little immunity from state intervention. So I would guess the State could come in and do what it wants.

http://www.nyslocalgov.org/pdf/Strengthening_Home_Rule.pdf
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/27/11 06:13 AM

http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/...xt|Local%20News

Thousands share anti-fracking sentiments at Ithaca College

Most of the cars that filled the parking lot in front of the Campus Center on Ithaca College's campus had one thing in common: bumper stickers.

Many cars had a small black sticker that said FRACK in white letters with a red slash through it.

Another read, "Hydrofracking is immoral: Thou shalt not poison thy neighbor's water and air." Still another read, "Stop Marcellus Shale. Fracking = poison water."

One blue pick-up truck had two wooden panels attached to each side of the car that read: "Solar and wind power = green jobs now. Say no to gas drilling. Say yes to clean air and water."

The cars were at the campus Saturday for the "EPIC No Frack Event," a day-long educational session to raise awareness of potential environmental hazards related to horizontal, high-volume hydraulic fracturing -- pumping water and chemicals into the ground to release natural gas from the Marcellus Shale.
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/27/11 07:35 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/...xt|Local%20News

Thousands share anti-fracking sentiments at Ithaca College

Most of the cars that filled the parking lot in front of the Campus Center on Ithaca College's campus had one thing in common: bumper stickers.

Many cars had a small black sticker that said FRACK in white letters with a red slash through it.

Another read, "Hydrofracking is immoral: Thou shalt not poison thy neighbor's water and air." Still another read, "Stop Marcellus Shale. Fracking = poison water."

One blue pick-up truck had two wooden panels attached to each side of the car that read: "Solar and wind power = green jobs now. Say no to gas drilling. Say yes to clean air and water."

The cars were at the campus Saturday for the "EPIC No Frack Event," a day-long educational session to raise awareness of potential environmental hazards related to horizontal, high-volume hydraulic fracturing -- pumping water and chemicals into the ground to release natural gas from the Marcellus Shale.
Ahahahahahaha....They should have taken the Granola-head Shuttle Bus or walked! Oh wait that's what they want you to do... they are saving the planet. Wait until their butts get cold in the winter then they will be saying Drill-Baby-Drill.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/27/11 11:59 AM

From today's FL Times:

By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA — The hydrofracking method of drilling for natural gas would be prohibited in the town under the terms of a proposed local law.

The law would add the activity to the list of prohibited industrial uses in the town zoning code. The ban would be for horizontal or directional drilling operations, hydraulic fracturing or hydrofracking operations, and the storage, processing, handling and disposal of hydrofracking fluids and other byproducts.

There will be a public hearing on the local law, amending Chapter 165 of the town code, at 7 p.m. July 12 at the Town Hall.
Posted by: Rich_Tallcot

Re: Frack legislation - 06/27/11 02:48 PM

The town I own property in in Onondaga County also has such zoning laws, but acknowledge federal exemptions make the law moot. Good luck.
Posted by: all seeing eye

Gas driller fined $180,000 for Marcellus violation - 06/28/11 06:23 PM

Gas driller fined $180,000 for Marcellus violations

NEW YORK | Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:14pm EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Independent energy producer Chief Oil & Gas has been fined $180,000 by Pennsylvania regulators for environmental violations in the Marcellus Shale, the Department of Environmental Protection said on Tuesday.

Chief Oil & Gas has paid the civil fine, which was related to a hydraulic oil spill and the failure to maintain a drill pit at a natural gas well in Somerset County, the Pennsylvania DEP said in a statement.

"A June 10, 2010 site inspection by DEP found evidence of the discharge of hydraulic oil onto the ground," the DEP said. "Chief did not notify DEP of the spill and was not permitted to discharge residual waste at the site."

The company has since made repairs at the site to prevent future spills, the statement said.

The Marcellus shale is an underground rock formation that stretches across much of Pennsylvania, as well as portions of New York and West Virginia. Drilling in the Marcellus accounted for 271.5 billion cubic of natural gas during the last six months of 2010 (1.5 bcf per day).
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 06/28/11 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
From today's FL Times:

By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA — The hydrofracking method of drilling for natural gas would be prohibited in the town under the terms of a proposed local law.

The law would add the activity to the list of prohibited industrial uses in the town zoning code. The ban would be for horizontal or directional drilling operations, hydraulic fracturing or hydrofracking operations, and the storage, processing, handling and disposal of hydrofracking fluids and other byproducts.

There will be a public hearing on the local law, amending Chapter 165 of the town code, at 7 p.m. July 12 at the Town Hall.



Waste of time. Federal law will overrule it. People are just trying to grandstand.
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 09:33 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
From today's FL Times:

By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA — The hydrofracking method of drilling for natural gas would be prohibited in the town under the terms of a proposed local law.

The law would add the activity to the list of prohibited industrial uses in the town zoning code. The ban would be for horizontal or directional drilling operations, hydraulic fracturing or hydrofracking operations, and the storage, processing, handling and disposal of hydrofracking fluids and other byproducts.

There will be a public hearing on the local law, amending Chapter 165 of the town code, at 7 p.m. July 12 at the Town Hall.
Who should I believe kyle you a flaming liberal granola head who uses her feelings instead science and fact?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW_xJqPjE_I
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 09:51 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
From today's FL Times:

By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA — The hydrofracking method of drilling for natural gas would be prohibited in the town under the terms of a proposed local law.
Waste of time. Federal law will overrule it. People are just trying to grandstand.
So if every local government passes a resolution against fracking, is the federal government going to overide the will of the people?
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 10:29 AM

The Pennsylvania Office of Homeland Security has been tracking anti-gas drilling groups and their meetings — including a public screening of the film “Gasland,” a documentary about the environmental hazards of natural gas drilling. The office includes information about the groups in its weekly bulletins that are sent out to law enforcement agencies—and to companies that are drilling for gas in the Marcellus Shale.
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 10:41 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
The Pennsylvania Office of Homeland Security has been tracking anti-gas drilling groups and their meetings — including a public screening of the film “Gasland,” a documentary about the environmental hazards of natural gas drilling. The office includes information about the groups in its weekly bulletins that are sent out to law enforcement agencies—and to companies that are drilling for gas in the Marcellus Shale.
Are you a member of an Eco-terrorist group pixie girl?

PS: Hows everything going at the sewer plant?
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 11:16 AM

Quote:
is the federal government going to overide the will of the people?


The federal government can, has, and will do anything it claims is necessary. Let's imagine that a bunch of people wanted to make a lot of money drilling gas. Do you think the government would ever override local concerns in the name of, say, "energy independence and national security"?
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 11:45 AM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
is the federal government going to overide the will of the people?


The federal government can, has, and will do anything it claims is necessary. Let's imagine that a bunch of people wanted to make a lot of money drilling gas. Do you think the government would ever override local concerns in the name of, say, "energy independence and national security"?

You mean to say kyle could have a gas well drilled smack dab in the middle of his commune or his granola orchard and there's nothing he could do about it?
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 11:50 AM

Quote:
You mean to say kyle could have a gas well drilled smack dab in the middle of his commune or his granola orchard and there's nothing he could do about it?


The best that he could hope for would be that it would be an energy company run by Dubya, and that it would fail, just like everything else Dubya ever did.

But he'd better hope that George didn't start dealing coke out of the commune, like he did at Yale.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 08:04 PM

http://www.whec.com/news/stories/S2178645.shtml?cat=566

If you live in Brighton or Canandaigua, you might be getting a knock on the door.

Volunteers from the New York Public Interest Research Group are hitting the streets to express their concerns about horizontal hydraulic fracturing or hydrofracking. That's the process by which companies want to drill for natural gas in the Marcellus Shale formation up and down the east coast.

On Friday, the Department of Environmental Conservation is set to release a new version of its environmental impact statement on hydraulic fracturing.

While NYPIRG wants the DEC to take its time, pro-drilling groups are saying it's about time.

Inside an office on Alexander Street, volunteers from the New York Public Interest Research Group are practicing their door-to-door pitches.

Brann Gallagher -- a college student from Penfield, has been volunteering for NYPIRG the last three summers. He says he wouldn’t be doing it if he didn’t care about the issue.

This summer, the big issue is horizontal hydraulic fracturing -- a method used to release natural gas in the Marcellus Shale formation, which has been on hold in New York for nearly three years. Gallagher said, “You'd be surprised how many doors we go to and a lot of people don't know about this hydrofracking thing. So it's really awesome to be able to inform them a little bit.”

Gallagher and his fellow volunteers will knock on doors from Rochester to the Southern Tier over the next nine weeks. They're asking residents send a hand-written letter to Governor Andrew Cuomo.

“There's really no rush. We want them to take their time and make sure the public health and safety of 20 million New Yorkers is accounted.” Community Outreach Director Eric Legeer says the NYPIRG isn't against hydrofracking, but they have some concerns. “At the very least, if they're going to practice this in New York State, we have to make sure we're imposing regulations rather than just permitting the process.”

“It's unfortunate that some groups want to delay that responsible development.” Pro-drilling groups like the Marcellus Shale Coalition are eagerly awaiting the DEC's latest report. Travis Windle says drilling needs to happen sooner than later. “What we're losing out on in New York is the opportunity to create jobs, the opportunity to create jobs to put people back to work, the opportunity to make America more energy secure.”

Earlier in the week, DEC Commissioner Joseph Martens was quoted saying the report might not be completed by Friday, but a spokesperson tells News 10NBC that the DEC is on track to meet Friday's deadline.

This debate is far from over. The public will have 90 days to comment after the report is released.
Posted by: MeRightYouWrong

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Rich, I'm more concerned about the state passing a bill about Gay Marriage than I am about Gas Drillers polluting our beautiful water ways.


I am opposed to fracking because it sounds too much like what goes on after gay marriage.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 09:45 PM

How do you know?
Posted by: MeRightYouWrong

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 09:50 PM

My homophobia tells me so.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: Frack legislation - 06/29/11 10:05 PM

\:D
Posted by: DeadDave

Re: Frack legislation - 06/30/11 07:12 AM

Originally Posted By: MeRightYouWrong
My homophobia tells me so.



Is that like an astrologer?
Posted by: Harleybobb

Re: Frack legislation - 06/30/11 11:57 AM

Originally Posted By: DeadDave
Originally Posted By: MeRightYouWrong
My homophobia tells me so.



Is that like an astrologer?
Yes!
Posted by: all seeing eye

New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 06/30/11 06:11 PM

For Release: Thursday, June 30, 2011

New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing Review

In Reversal of 2009 Report, High-Volume Fracturing Would be Prohibited in NYC and Syracuse Watersheds

Drilling Banned Within All Primary Aquifers and on State-Owned Land Including State Forest and Wildlife Management Areas

Drilling Permitted on Other Private Land with Rigorous and Effective Protections

Advisory Panel on Implementation to Be Appointed

The Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) tomorrow will release its revised recommendations on mitigating the environmental impacts of high-volume hydraulic fracturing (high-volume fracturing). The recommendations contain these major revisions:

High-volume fracturing would be prohibited in the New York City and Syracuse watersheds, including a buffer zone;

Drilling would be prohibited within primary aquifers and within 500 feet of their boundaries;

Surface drilling would be prohibited on state-owned land including parks, forest areas and wildlife management areas;

High-volume fracturing will be permitted on privately held lands under rigorous and effective controls; and

DEC will issue regulations to codify these recommendations into state law.

These recommendations, if adopted in final form, would protect the state's environmentally sensitive areas while realizing the economic development and energy benefits of the state's natural gas resources. Approximately 85 percent of the Marcellus Shale would be accessible to natural gas extraction under these recommendations.

DEC Commissioner Joseph Martens said, "This report strikes the right balance between protecting our environment, watersheds, and drinking water and promoting economic development."

The ban on high-volume fracturing in the New York City and Syracuse watersheds represents a reversal of the Department's 2009 draft report, which would have permitted drilling in those watersheds. The New York and Syracuse watersheds are unique in that they are the only unfiltered supplies of municipal water in the state and deserve special protection. The prior report also would have allowed high-volume fracturing surface drilling in primary aquifers and on public forests, wildlife areas and parkland; the 2011 report reverses all of these recommendations.

There will be more opportunity for review and comment on the Department's recommendations. DEC plans for a 60-day public comment period commencing in August. There is no administrative or discretionary moratorium on high-volume fracturing. By law, no permits may be issued until the public comments are reviewed and considered and the final Supplement Generic Environmental Impact Statement is released.

DEC enforcement and oversight of high-volume fracturing will be rigorous and effective. No permits will be issued until DEC has the proper enforcement capacity in place to monitor all fracturing activities.

In preparing the new recommendations, DEC engaged independent consultants to perform research, sought further information from the gas drilling industry, considered more than 13,000 public comments and studied other states' regulations and experience, including site visits by Commissioner Martens and DEC officials to Pennsylvania incident sites. Since September 2009, DEC staff has spent approximately 10,250 hours updating the document. The 2011 version contains more than 900 pages, including more than 150 additional pages of data and analysis compared to the 2009 version.

The Department's extensive review has resulted in recommendations for rigorous and effective controls on high-volume fracturing on private lands. These state-of-the-art controls include such permitting rules as:

Protecting Drinking Water

Well water protection and other water protection: No permits would be issued for sites within 500 feet of a private water well or domestic use spring. No permits may be issued for a proposed site within 2,000 feet of a public drinking water supply well or reservoir at least until three years of experience elsewhere have been evaluated. No permits will be issued for well pads sited within a 100-year floodplain.
Additional Well Casing to Prevent Gas Migration: In most cases, an additional third, cemented well casing is required around each well to prevent the migration of gas. The three required casings are the surface casing, the new intermediate casing and the production casing. The depths of both surface and intermediate casings will be determined by site-specific conditions.

Spill control:

All new guidelines will require that flowback water on site must use watertight tanks within a secondary containment. No open containment may be used. A secondary containment will also be required for all fracturing additive containers, additive staging areas and flowback tanks to ensure any spills of wastewater or chemicals at the well pad do not migrate into water supplies.

Stormwater Control:

New permit process requiring strict stormwater control measures to prevent stormwater from contaminating water resources.

Regulating Water Withdrawals:

New Legislation: Pursuant to the Governor's signing of DEC's Water Withdrawal legislation, which the State Legislature recently passed, a special permit will be required to withdraw large volumes of water for industrial and commercial purposes to ensure there are not adverse impacts.

Permit Condition:

All withdrawals from surface water bodies will be subject to limits to prevent impacts upon ecosystems and other water quantity requirements. Identification of the water source an applicant intends to use will be required and an annual report must be issued on the aggregate amount of water it has withdrawn or purchased.

Properly Handling Flowback Water:

Since the 2009 SGEIS, many drilling companies have started to recycle much of the flowback water, greatly reducing the need for disposal.


Flowback Water Disposal:

Applicants must have DEC-approved plans for disposing of flowback water and production brine.

Drilling & Production Waste Tracking:

DEC would institute a process to monitor disposal of flowback water, production brine, drill cuttings and other drilling waste streams that is similar to the handling of medical waste.

Water Treatment Facilities:

Requires full analysis and approvals under existing state and federal water laws and regulations, which must be completed before a water treatment facility could accept flowback water. This would include a treatment capacity analysis for any publicly operated treatment works facility (POTW) and a contingency plan if the primary disposal for wastewater is a POTW.

Taking Local Governments & Communities into Account:

Local Government Notification: DEC would notify local governments of each well permit application for high-volume fracturing.

Local Land Use & Zoning:

Applicant must certify that a proposed activity is consistent with local land use and zoning laws. Failure to certify or a challenge by a locality would trigger additional DEC review before a permit could be issued.

Identifying Fracturing Fluid Chemicals:

Chemical Identification: The 2011 SGEIS identifies 322 chemicals proposed for use in New York and includes health hazard information for each as identified by the NYS Department of Health. Applicants must fully disclose to DEC all products utilized in the high-volume fracturing process. In addition, applicants must agree to publicly disclose the names of the additives, subject to appropriate protections for proprietary information.
Chemical Alternatives: Operators will be required to evaluate using alternative additives that pose less potential risk.

Protecting the Air:

Air Quality: Requires enhanced air pollution controls on engines used at well pads. DEC will monitor local and regional air quality at well pads and surrounding areas.
Greenhouse Gas Impact: Requires use of existing pipelines when available rather than flaring gas.

Conserving Habitats:

Private Forestland: Disturbing the surface of the land is strictly restricted in forests of 150 acres or more by requiring applicants to comply with best management practices.

Private Grasslands: Disturbing the surface of the land is strictly restricted in grasslands of 30 acres or more by requiring applicants to comply with best management practices.

Making Sure We Get It Right - Community Impacts Still Under Study:

The 2009 SGEIS did not adequately consider the community and socioeconomic impacts of high-volume fracturing. To address this deficiency, DEC has engaged independent consultants to thoroughly research these types of effects.

Specifically, researchers are examining both baseline data and the potential effects of development in the areas of:

Socioeconomic conditions including positive and negative impacts;
Transportation infrastructure, current road use and the impacts of increased traffic; and
Visual and noise impacts.

DEC expects the research to be completed by July 31, 2011. This research will be considered and reflected in the final draft of the report.

Appointment of Advisory Panel to Develop Implementation Plan:

Upon final adoption of the permitting standards, the Department will implement a system of oversight, monitoring and enforcement. The successful implementation of high-volume fracturing policy will also require close consultation with local governments and communities.

Commissioner Martens will announce the formation of the High-Volume Hydraulic Fracturing Advisory Panel, which will be composed of outside environmental and industry experts, and local government representatives. The Panel will be charged with developing recommendations for:

funding to ensure the proper oversight, monitoring and enforcement of mitigation measures, including both state and county agencies responsible for drilling activities and reviewing water sampling data;

measures to minimize socioeconomic and other impacts on local governments and communities;

a fee structure for drilling development; and

a mechanism for the funding of infrastructure improvements.

The complete 2011 SGEIS will be available on DEC's website on July 8.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 06/30/11 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
For Release: Thursday, June 30, 2011

New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing Review

In Reversal of 2009 Report, High-Volume Fracturing Would be Prohibited in NYC and Syracuse Watersheds

Drilling Banned Within All Primary Aquifers and on State-Owned Land Including State Forest and Wildlife Management Areas

Drilling Permitted on Other Private Land with Rigorous and Effective Protections

Advisory Panel on Implementation to Be Appointed

The Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) tomorrow will release its revised recommendations on mitigating the environmental impacts of high-volume hydraulic fracturing (high-volume fracturing). The recommendations contain these major revisions:

High-volume fracturing would be prohibited in the New York City and Syracuse watersheds, including a buffer zone;

Drilling would be prohibited within primary aquifers and within 500 feet of their boundaries;

Surface drilling would be prohibited on state-owned land including parks, forest areas and wildlife management areas;

High-volume fracturing will be permitted on privately held lands under rigorous and effective controls; and

DEC will issue regulations to codify these recommendations into state law.

These recommendations, if adopted in final form, would protect the state's environmentally sensitive areas while realizing the economic development and energy benefits of the state's natural gas resources. Approximately 85 percent of the Marcellus Shale would be accessible to natural gas extraction under these recommendations.

DEC Commissioner Joseph Martens said, "This report strikes the right balance between protecting our environment, watersheds, and drinking water and promoting economic development."

The ban on high-volume fracturing in the New York City and Syracuse watersheds represents a reversal of the Department's 2009 draft report, which would have permitted drilling in those watersheds. The New York and Syracuse watersheds are unique in that they are the only unfiltered supplies of municipal water in the state and deserve special protection. The prior report also would have allowed high-volume fracturing surface drilling in primary aquifers and on public forests, wildlife areas and parkland; the 2011 report reverses all of these recommendations.

There will be more opportunity for review and comment on the Department's recommendations. DEC plans for a 60-day public comment period commencing in August. There is no administrative or discretionary moratorium on high-volume fracturing. By law, no permits may be issued until the public comments are reviewed and considered and the final Supplement Generic Environmental Impact Statement is released.

DEC enforcement and oversight of high-volume fracturing will be rigorous and effective. No permits will be issued until DEC has the proper enforcement capacity in place to monitor all fracturing activities.

In preparing the new recommendations, DEC engaged independent consultants to perform research, sought further information from the gas drilling industry, considered more than 13,000 public comments and studied other states' regulations and experience, including site visits by Commissioner Martens and DEC officials to Pennsylvania incident sites. Since September 2009, DEC staff has spent approximately 10,250 hours updating the document. The 2011 version contains more than 900 pages, including more than 150 additional pages of data and analysis compared to the 2009 version.

The Department's extensive review has resulted in recommendations for rigorous and effective controls on high-volume fracturing on private lands. These state-of-the-art controls include such permitting rules as:

Protecting Drinking Water

Well water protection and other water protection: No permits would be issued for sites within 500 feet of a private water well or domestic use spring. No permits may be issued for a proposed site within 2,000 feet of a public drinking water supply well or reservoir at least until three years of experience elsewhere have been evaluated. No permits will be issued for well pads sited within a 100-year floodplain.
Additional Well Casing to Prevent Gas Migration: In most cases, an additional third, cemented well casing is required around each well to prevent the migration of gas. The three required casings are the surface casing, the new intermediate casing and the production casing. The depths of both surface and intermediate casings will be determined by site-specific conditions.

Spill control:

All new guidelines will require that flowback water on site must use watertight tanks within a secondary containment. No open containment may be used. A secondary containment will also be required for all fracturing additive containers, additive staging areas and flowback tanks to ensure any spills of wastewater or chemicals at the well pad do not migrate into water supplies.

Stormwater Control:

New permit process requiring strict stormwater control measures to prevent stormwater from contaminating water resources.

Regulating Water Withdrawals:

New Legislation: Pursuant to the Governor's signing of DEC's Water Withdrawal legislation, which the State Legislature recently passed, a special permit will be required to withdraw large volumes of water for industrial and commercial purposes to ensure there are not adverse impacts.

Permit Condition:

All withdrawals from surface water bodies will be subject to limits to prevent impacts upon ecosystems and other water quantity requirements. Identification of the water source an applicant intends to use will be required and an annual report must be issued on the aggregate amount of water it has withdrawn or purchased.

Properly Handling Flowback Water:

Since the 2009 SGEIS, many drilling companies have started to recycle much of the flowback water, greatly reducing the need for disposal.


Flowback Water Disposal:

Applicants must have DEC-approved plans for disposing of flowback water and production brine.

Drilling & Production Waste Tracking:

DEC would institute a process to monitor disposal of flowback water, production brine, drill cuttings and other drilling waste streams that is similar to the handling of medical waste.

Water Treatment Facilities:

Requires full analysis and approvals under existing state and federal water laws and regulations, which must be completed before a water treatment facility could accept flowback water. This would include a treatment capacity analysis for any publicly operated treatment works facility (POTW) and a contingency plan if the primary disposal for wastewater is a POTW.

Taking Local Governments & Communities into Account:

Local Government Notification: DEC would notify local governments of each well permit application for high-volume fracturing.

Local Land Use & Zoning:

Applicant must certify that a proposed activity is consistent with local land use and zoning laws. Failure to certify or a challenge by a locality would trigger additional DEC review before a permit could be issued.

Identifying Fracturing Fluid Chemicals:

Chemical Identification: The 2011 SGEIS identifies 322 chemicals proposed for use in New York and includes health hazard information for each as identified by the NYS Department of Health. Applicants must fully disclose to DEC all products utilized in the high-volume fracturing process. In addition, applicants must agree to publicly disclose the names of the additives, subject to appropriate protections for proprietary information.
Chemical Alternatives: Operators will be required to evaluate using alternative additives that pose less potential risk.

Protecting the Air:

Air Quality: Requires enhanced air pollution controls on engines used at well pads. DEC will monitor local and regional air quality at well pads and surrounding areas.
Greenhouse Gas Impact: Requires use of existing pipelines when available rather than flaring gas.

Conserving Habitats:

Private Forestland: Disturbing the surface of the land is strictly restricted in forests of 150 acres or more by requiring applicants to comply with best management practices.

Private Grasslands: Disturbing the surface of the land is strictly restricted in grasslands of 30 acres or more by requiring applicants to comply with best management practices.

Making Sure We Get It Right - Community Impacts Still Under Study:

The 2009 SGEIS did not adequately consider the community and socioeconomic impacts of high-volume fracturing. To address this deficiency, DEC has engaged independent consultants to thoroughly research these types of effects.

Specifically, researchers are examining both baseline data and the potential effects of development in the areas of:

Socioeconomic conditions including positive and negative impacts;
Transportation infrastructure, current road use and the impacts of increased traffic; and
Visual and noise impacts.

DEC expects the research to be completed by July 31, 2011. This research will be considered and reflected in the final draft of the report.

Appointment of Advisory Panel to Develop Implementation Plan:

Upon final adoption of the permitting standards, the Department will implement a system of oversight, monitoring and enforcement. The successful implementation of high-volume fracturing policy will also require close consultation with local governments and communities.

Commissioner Martens will announce the formation of the High-Volume Hydraulic Fracturing Advisory Panel, which will be composed of outside environmental and industry experts, and local government representatives. The Panel will be charged with developing recommendations for:

funding to ensure the proper oversight, monitoring and enforcement of mitigation measures, including both state and county agencies responsible for drilling activities and reviewing water sampling data;

measures to minimize socioeconomic and other impacts on local governments and communities;

a fee structure for drilling development; and

a mechanism for the funding of infrastructure improvements.

The complete 2011 SGEIS will be available on DEC's website on July 8.




Drill baby Drill! The wack jobs lost again thank god. Do you think Kyle's depressed hiding in the basement?
Posted by: all seeing eye

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 06/30/11 10:35 PM

Dear brainman,

If you think the drilling will start any time soon, you don't understand the rulemaking process in NY.

There is a 60-day comment period after the final proposed rulemaking, but that is always extended because of the volume of comments. In this case there are going to be thousands.

Then the Department has to evaluate the comments, prepare a written assessment responding to each of them and make additional changes.

Of course, during that time more and more accidents will happen in PA and more leaked documents will appear in the press.

At least a year before the final rule is issued, but I am betting 2.

Then, the lawsuits will start.

So the chant should be wait baby wait.
Posted by: looseleaf

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/01/11 06:14 AM

Dear all seeing eye: You and the other chicken littles have lost to science and the public interest. I think global warming now needs your attention.
Posted by: all seeing eye

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/01/11 06:29 PM

Sorry just being realistic about the timetable before drilling can begin.

Here's what the DEC Commissioner said about timing:

A 60-day comment period on the DEC’s latest draft review of hydrofracking will begin in August. After that, the DEC has to make another round of revisions before putting out a final document, which is required before permits can be issued. Martens said it was “highly unlikely” the state will be in a position to issue permits by the end of the year.

Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/01/11 11:02 PM

Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Dear brainman,

If you think the drilling will start any time soon, you don't understand the rulemaking process in NY.

There is a 60-day comment period after the final proposed rulemaking, but that is always extended because of the volume of comments. In this case there are going to be thousands.

Then the Department has to evaluate the comments, prepare a written assessment responding to each of them and make additional changes.

Of course, during that time more and more accidents will happen in PA and more leaked documents will appear in the press.

At least a year before the final rule is issued, but I am betting 2.

Then, the lawsuits will start.

So the chant should be wait baby wait.



There will be drilling in the southern tier by next summer guaranteed. A lot of the preliminary work has already been done.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/01/11 11:02 PM

Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Dear brainman,

If you think the drilling will start any time soon, you don't understand the rulemaking process in NY.

There is a 60-day comment period after the final proposed rulemaking, but that is always extended because of the volume of comments. In this case there are going to be thousands.

Then the Department has to evaluate the comments, prepare a written assessment responding to each of them and make additional changes.

Of course, during that time more and more accidents will happen in PA and more leaked documents will appear in the press.

At least a year before the final rule is issued, but I am betting 2.

Then, the lawsuits will start.

So the chant should be wait baby wait.



There will be drilling in the southern tier by next summer guaranteed. A lot of the preliminary work has already been done.
Posted by: all seeing eye

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/02/11 12:31 AM

Sorry, but I just don't think the state will move that fast.

Even if everything goes smoothly.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/02/11 03:46 AM

Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Sorry, but I just don't think the state will move that fast.

Even if everything goes smoothly.



Of course they will move that fast. It's a new source of revenue and we all know how the state likes new revenue.
Posted by: all seeing eye

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/02/11 09:26 PM


I am curious....where is the revenue coming from?

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Sorry, but I just don't think the state will move that fast.

Even if everything goes smoothly.



Of course they will move that fast. It's a new source of revenue and we all know how the state likes new revenue.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/02/11 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: all seeing eye

I am curious....where is the revenue coming from?

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Sorry, but I just don't think the state will move that fast.

Even if everything goes smoothly.



Of course they will move that fast. It's a new source of revenue and we all know how the state likes new revenue.


sales tax,bed tax,withholding taxes and I wouldn't be surprised if NY puts a production tax in place to raise more revenue.
Posted by: all seeing eye

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/02/11 11:14 PM

The bed tax would be from all the out of state folks drilling the wells and injecting the chemicals, I guess. You forgot the motels and diners where they sleep and eat while they are in town from Texas or Louisiana.

From what I hear from PA, the jobs for locals are unskilled - truck drivers and the like.

Probably same sex marriage will be a bigger bonanza to the state.


Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye

I am curious....where is the revenue coming from?

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Sorry, but I just don't think the state will move that fast.

Even if everything goes smoothly.



Of course they will move that fast. It's a new source of revenue and we all know how the state likes new revenue.


sales tax,bed tax,withholding taxes and I wouldn't be surprised if NY puts a production tax in place to raise more revenue.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/03/11 02:26 AM

Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
The bed tax would be from all the out of state folks drilling the wells and injecting the chemicals, I guess. You forgot the motels and diners where they sleep and eat while they are in town from Texas or Louisiana.

From what I hear from PA, the jobs for locals are unskilled - truck drivers and the like.

Probably same sex marriage will be a bigger bonanza to the state.


Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye

I am curious....where is the revenue coming from?

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Sorry, but I just don't think the state will move that fast.

Even if everything goes smoothly.



Of course they will move that fast. It's a new source of revenue and we all know how the state likes new revenue.


sales tax,bed tax,withholding taxes and I wouldn't be surprised if NY puts a production tax in place to raise more revenue.



Are you saying truck drivers are unskilled?
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 07:17 PM

To the Editor:

I wish to thank Gov. Cuomo for considering lifting the ban on hydrofracking. Mr. Cuomo did you forget something? Like the 162-page document you wrote about energy for New York — aka POWER NY — prior to the election? Such as reporting your tremendous interest in renewables? This certainly had my attention and interest and my vote, and I encouraged others on that account, too. Now this? Are you so willing to trash the
most pristine area in the nation for the promise — and only a promise — that such revenue will save New York from years of corruption by its self-serving administration bureaucracy?

Are you so sure the hydrofrackers are truly the Golden Goose that is going to lay the golden egg? Or is this goose going to leave us taxpayers and property owners with a truly “renewable” by-product?

JIM BOBRESKI
Penn Yan
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 07:18 PM

To the Editor:

What is going on in Waterloo? There must be something in the water. The Town Board has a public hearing scheduled for July 19 at 7 p.m. to listen to citizen comments on their proposal to cancel in its entirety the town’s ordinance on Excavation & Mining, Chapter 80. Some have said, “Why a Chapter 80 as all mining is governed by the state of New York?” False, error, wrong! The state only regulates mines over 750 cubic yards
or 1,000 tons per year. Some have said, “Why go to the hearing — it’s a ‘done deal.’” False, error, wrong! Again ... It’s a public hearing. That means you have an opportunity to voice your concerns about what will be open season on small mines ... maybe next to you ... no control ... no review. Does that make sense to you? Be there July 19 at 7 p.m. to speak your concerns. Don’t let the town trash this law.

LELAND C. HENRY
Waterloo
Posted by: flbuldog

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 07:20 PM

Way to go Leland \:\)
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 07:21 PM

To the Editor:

First the BP oil spill spoiling our Gulf shores, then another Exxon oil spill. This time in our iconic Yellowstone River, formerly famed for its stunning beauty and unsurpassed trout fishing; now, regretfully, another casualty of our addiction to
oil. When will we wake up? When will we say enough is enough and admit we need to change our habits? With the exception of a very few who have opted for clean energy technologies or good old-fashioned simple lifestyles that aren’t dependent on fossil fuels, each and every one of us is responsible for these disasters. That’s right. You, me and everyone still using natural gas, oil or coal.

These disasters are manmade. How sad we are still causing so much pain and destruction by our inability or refusal to change.
When I see how easily adults succumb to marketing strategies luring them to purchase more stuff that will, supposedly, improve their lives and then model that behavior to their children, I wonder if they think at all about the bigger picture; about how it impacts our planet, our country, our home.

And when I see parents modeling shortsightedness and giving in to their children’s demands for this or that product before weighing the long-term benefit or liability carefully and coming to better choices, choices that may have vast long-term impacts on their children, the question arises again. Can’t we do better?

With the news of these horrible oil spills affecting our rivers, our oceans, the waters that give life, one would think them as urgent calls to change. But I see many people too willing to give up their power for easy answers. When I see kids tearing up the landscape in motorbikes and ATVs that pollute the air by burning up more fossil fuel, I ask what are we teaching our children? When the best we can do is to send them out to thoughtlessly destroy the environment, we teach them it doesn’t matter. We can’t do that anymore. Our bad habits are catching up to us. Yes, change is frightening to many and breaking old patterns is often challenging, but most people will find, once they do, it feels good. The burden of powerlessness is lifted once one overcomes obstacles or limitations.

We empower ourselves and our children by doing the right thing for the long term.

NANCY KASPER
Huron
Posted by: WilllOWisp

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 08:08 PM

I'm sorry if this has been stated, but I don't feel like reading 3 pages. If Fracking was bad for our waters, wouldn't the EPA step in?

Personally I would like to see Tesla Texhnology explored, but the Natural Gas would ease our financial burden until we figure out a way to have cleaner energy. How about using the Earths magnetics for energy. We would be along for the ride on Earths byproducts instead of burning them.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 09:14 PM

Quote:
How about using the Earths magnetics for energy.


What's your proposed design?
Posted by: WilllOWisp

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 09:33 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
How about using the Earths magnetics for energy.


What's your proposed design?
I wish
I've just been doing a lot of reading.
It's possible to use sound to move objects too. Maybe sound could be implemented into an energy resource. Sometimes I think some drivers are already using sound in their cars. When they drive by I can hear their music and I am 200 yards away!

Problem is, no one gets rich with those ideas and the people who have mastered those ideas were bought out a long time ago by oil,coal and nuclear companies. If little ole me can imagine sound or dear mother Earth's magnetosphere as energy sources, you bet your bippy, the geniuses have thought about it too \:\)
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
I'm sorry if this has been stated, but I don't feel like reading 3 pages. If Fracking was bad for our waters, wouldn't the EPA step in?

Personally I would like to see Tesla Texhnology explored, but the Natural Gas would ease our financial burden until we figure out a way to have cleaner energy. How about using the Earths magnetics for energy. We would be along for the ride on Earths byproducts instead of burning them.



tesla is a joke and the earths energy in magnetism is way to small per sq meter to do anything but move a little irom arm on a compass . solar and wind and hydro are the cleanest and readily avaialle in most areas .
Posted by: WilllOWisp

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 09:48 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
I'm sorry if this has been stated, but I don't feel like reading 3 pages. If Fracking was bad for our waters, wouldn't the EPA step in?

Personally I would like to see Tesla Technology explored, but the Natural Gas would ease our financial burden until we figure out a way to have cleaner energy. How about using the Earths magnetics for energy. We would be along for the ride on Earths byproducts instead of burning them.



tesla is a joke and the earths energy in magnetism is way to small per sq meter to do anything but move a little irom arm on a compass . solar and wind and hydro are the cleanest and readily avaialle in most areas .


Solar and wind are not a constant. The fact that the earths magnetosphere can move a compass needle is amazing! We don't have to burn anything to use it.

Wind power? well they can put the windmills near you. I like to hear birdies tweeting, not the constant mind numbing hum that windmills make. If we can launch satalites into space, why can't we use satilite technology to develop earths magnetosphere into everyone's beloved "clean" energy? It's not impossible. Dream a little \:\)
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 09:49 PM

Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
How about using the Earths magnetics for energy.


What's your proposed design?
I wish
I've just been doing a lot of reading.
It's possible to use sound to move objects too. Maybe sound could be implemented into an energy resource. Sometimes I think some drivers are already using sound in their cars. When they drive by I can hear their music and I am 200 yards away!

Problem is, no one gets rich with those ideas and the people who have mastered those ideas were bought out a long time ago by oil,coal and nuclear companies. If little ole me can imagine sound or dear mother Earth's magnetosphere as energy sources, you bet your bippy, the geniuses have thought about it too \:\)


sound energy is also to low in watts per sq meter your thinking way to small , our energy needs require big power
remember rule one energy is nether created nor destroyed That means things like windmills on the front of your car or all magnetic motors and most of what tesla dreamed up are not reality or possible just dreams. Tesla had some good stuff at first but then he got kinda crazy with the fake tube driven car and power broad casted .
Posted by: WilllOWisp

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 09:51 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
How about using the Earths magnetics for energy.


What's your proposed design?
I wish
I've just been doing a lot of reading.
It's possible to use sound to move objects too. Maybe sound could be implemented into an energy resource. Sometimes I think some drivers are already using sound in their cars. When they drive by I can hear their music and I am 200 yards away!

Problem is, no one gets rich with those ideas and the people who have mastered those ideas were bought out a long time ago by oil,coal and nuclear companies. If little ole me can imagine sound or dear mother Earth's magnetosphere as energy sources, you bet your bippy, the geniuses have thought about it too \:\)


sound energy is also to low in watts per sq meter your thinking way to small
Quote:
Nuclear is small
, our energy needs require big power
remember rule one energy is nether created nor destroyed That means things like windmills on the front of your car or all magnetic motors and most of what tesla dreamed up are not reality or possible just dreams. Tesla had some good stuff at first but then he got kinda crazy with the fake tube driven car and power broad casted .
Quote:
I disagree
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
I'm sorry if this has been stated, but I don't feel like reading 3 pages. If Fracking was bad for our waters, wouldn't the EPA step in?

Personally I would like to see Tesla Technology explored, but the Natural Gas would ease our financial burden until we figure out a way to have cleaner energy. How about using the Earths magnetics for energy. We would be along for the ride on Earths byproducts instead of burning them.



tesla is a joke and the earths energy in magnetism is way to small per sq meter to do anything but move a little irom arm on a compass . solar and wind and hydro are the cleanest and readily avaialle in most areas .


Solar and wind are not a constant. The fact that the earths magnetosphere can move a compass needle is amazing! We don't have to burn anything to use it.

Wind power? well they can put the windmills near you. I like to hear birdies tweeting, not the constant mind numbing hum that windmills make. If we can launch satalites into space, why can't we use satilite technology to develop earths magnetosphere into everyone's beloved "clean" energy? It's not impossible. Dream a little \:\)


/ solar is here 10 to 12 hr day easy to generate as much as your house needs and more with only 5 kw of panels , we can generate all the power the Usa needs with only a small percentage of Arizona fitted with solar . you should see the new windmills they only turn at 1/4 rps so you don’t hear them and birds are faster . how would you capture and store this magnetic energy , its only a few nano watts per sq meter solar is 1000 watts per sq meter . so you would need 6,000,000 sq meters just for a small house if you can figure a way to capture it. Not practical
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 10:04 PM

nuclar is hardly small size yes power per cubic meter huge . a tea spoon will power a small city for weeks
what do you disagree with ?
Posted by: WilllOWisp

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/08/11 10:11 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
I'm sorry if this has been stated, but I don't feel like reading 3 pages. If Fracking was bad for our waters, wouldn't the EPA step in?

Personally I would like to see Tesla Technology explored, but the Natural Gas would ease our financial burden until we figure out a way to have cleaner energy. How about using the Earths magnetics for energy. We would be along for the ride on Earths byproducts instead of burning them.



tesla is a joke and the earths energy in magnetism is way to small per sq meter to do anything but move a little irom arm on a compass . solar and wind and hydro are the cleanest and readily avaialle in most areas .


Solar and wind are not a constant. The fact that the earths magnetosphere can move a compass needle is amazing! We don't have to burn anything to use it.

Wind power? well they can put the windmills near you. I like to hear birdies tweeting, not the constant mind numbing hum that windmills make. If we can launch satalites into space, why can't we use satilite technology to develop earths magnetosphere into everyone's beloved "clean" energy? It's not impossible. Dream a little \:\)


/ solar is here 10 to 12 hr day easy to generate as much as your house needs and more with only 5 kw of panels , we can generate all the power the Usa needs with only a small percentage of Arizona fitted with solar . you should see the new windmills they only turn at 1/4 rps so you don’t hear them and birds are faster . how would you capture and store this magnetic energy , its only a few nano watts per sq meter solar is 1000 watts per sq meter . so you would need 6,000,000 sq meters just for a small house if you can figure a way to capture it. Not practical
If I were a physicist/engineer, I would be happy to give you some specs. I am just a lowly housewife that wants clean water, clean lakes and clean air. Just the foundations of life not to be injured. I could list all the negatives of wind, butit's 11pm and I am tired. The ones I can think of off the top of my head are the hum(I will look into the reduced noise-thank you), bird deaths and the fact Al Gore has stock in the company. I really can't stand that hypocrite.

I don't live in Arizona, it's pretty dark here in winter.

Anyway, the internet gods have made the Google search engine. Do your own homework, I don't want to do it for you.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/09/11 07:02 AM

sorry but al gore does not have stock in all wind companies, and you don’t have to live in Arizona , we only need to put solar and windmills and geothermal and other less polluting energy producing methods where we can and use the electrical grid to move the electrical energy around, we do it now , the electrical energy you get at home here in NY, part may have come from Niagara falls or a coal burning monster in Ohio. I have solar panels on my house and have helped a few people put them up. We need a powerful energy source to help us and your magnetic Idea is thinking in the right way, but the field is constant and very weak , just not easily generated or brought down to earth. And we agree on Al Gore, I also want clean air and water and food, fracking has too many big negatives, the biggest is the method they use to gather the gas by fracturing the rock , now you have no control over where the gas goes. Some will find existing cracks up to the surface and we get methane and radon in the drinking water , both are bad.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/09/11 07:14 AM

you may think its dark here in ny in the winter but overall solar energy is not bad , yes you need a few more solar panels to compensate but it is still ok. the main problem is the intial cost of the solar system for a sinle house , as much as 20k to 30k its better to have large solar panel systems put up by the electrical companies , but untill other forms of energy get too expensive they will stay with what they have. I have done the work , I taught collage cources in alternitive energy
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/09/11 07:26 AM

Great to have you back pixie!

http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=1498

For Immediate Release: July 6, 2011
Contact: Kirsten Stade (202) 265-7337

Washington, DC — A new study has found that wastewater from natural gas hydrofracturing in a West Virginia national forest quickly wiped out all ground plants, killed more than half of the trees and caused radical changes in soil chemistry. These results argue for much tighter control over disposal of these “fracking fluids,” contends Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility

The new study by Mary Beth Adams, a U.S. Forest Service researcher, appears in the July-August issue of the peer-reviewed Journal of Environmental Quality. She looked at the effects of land application of fracking fluids on a quarter-acre section of the Fernow Experimental Forest within the Monongahela National Forest. More than 75,000 gallons of fracking fluids, which are injected deep underground to free shale gas and then return to the surface, were applied to the assigned plot over a two day period during June 2008. The following effects were reported in the study:

Within two days all ground plants were dead;

Within 10 days, leaves of trees began to turn brown. Within two years more than half of the approximately 150 trees were dead; and
“Surface soil concentrations of sodium and chloride increased 50-fold as a result of the land application of hydrofracturing fluids…” These elevated levels eventually declined as chemical leached off-site. The exact chemical composition of these fluids is not known because the chemical formula is classified as confidential proprietary information.

“The explosion of shale gas drilling in the East has the potential to turn large stretches of public lands into lifeless moonscapes,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch, noting that land disposal of fracking fluids is common and in the case of the Fernow was done pursuant to a state permit. “This study suggests that these fluids should be treated as toxic waste.”

For the past twenty-five years, the Forest Service has not applied any environmental restrictions on private extraction efforts, even in wilderness areas. As a result, forests, like the Monongahela, which sits astride the huge Marcellus Shale gas formation, have struggled with many adverse impacts of widespread drilling. By contrast, the nearby George Washington National Forest (NF) has recently proposed to ban horizontal drilling, a practice associated with hydrofracking, due to concern about both the ecosystem damage and also the huge amount of water required for the fracking process. Two subcommittees of the House of Representatives will hold a joint hearing this Friday to examine the George Washington NF’s singular pro-conservation stance.

“Unfortunately, the Forest Service has drilled its head deeply into the sand on oil and gas operations harming forest assets,” Ruch added, noting the National Wildlife Refuges also lack regulations to minimize drilling impacts. “The Forest Service needs to develop a broader approach than asking each forest supervisor to cast a lone profile in courage or cowardice.”
Posted by: WilllOWisp

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/09/11 01:14 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
you may think its dark here in ny in the winter but overall solar energy is not bad , yes you need a few more solar panels to compensate but it is still ok. the main problem is the intial cost of the solar system for a sinle house , as much as 20k to 30k its better to have large solar panel systems put up by the electrical companies , but untill other forms of energy get too expensive they will stay with what they have. I have done the work , I taught collage cources in alternitive energy
Too bad it's soooo expensive. I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket though.

Think outside the box for a constant flow of energy resources. You are too narrow minded. Just because you taught college doesn't make you smarter, just more arrogant.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/09/11 02:07 PM

nope been thinking out of the box all my life but you have to put practicality and real science behind any idea for free or new energy . Just because we wish to have free un-bountiful energy does not mean it exists. Scientists have looked at every possibilty over and over , we have experimented tested and played. No one has bought the ideas out like rumors say ie the 100 mph carburetor , there is no free lunch with energy.
.
but if you want to save money there are a lot of little in expensive things you can do to lower your electrical and fuel bills , put in all compact florescent bulbs , turn off the tv and a/c when you’re not using them ask around and Google there is a lot of information to lower your bills . we need to learn to use less energy and make it with less pollution.
Posted by: WilllOWisp

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/09/11 02:23 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
nope been thinking out of the box all my life but you have to put practicality and real science behind any idea for free or new energy . Just because we wish to have free un-bountiful energy does not mean it exists. Scientists have looked at every possibilty over and over , we have experimented tested and played. No one has bought the ideas out like rumors say ie the 100 mph carburetor , there is no free lunch with energy.
.
but if you want to save money there are a lot of little in expensive things you can do to lower your electrical and fuel bills , put in all compact florescent bulbs , turn off the tv and a/c when you’re not using them ask around and Google there is a lot of information to lower your bills . we need to learn to use less energy and make it with less pollution.
Now you want to "teach/preach" to me? You are an arrogant cuss aren't you? I didn't come here to argue with an idiot. I came here to read about Fracking and exploring ALL alternatives would be part of that conversation, not just a few obvious ones run by people who want to fleece the American people. I don't trust "scientists" no more than I can throw them. After all some of them came up with Man Made Global Warming. Yes, the climate is changing, no we didn't do it, period. Anyone who takes a high school geography class prior to 1980 would know this. Any scientist would have to earn my respect and you are failing, if you even are one.

We're done pixie. Just agree to disagree with me. I surely won't be answering any more of your posts. You are not worth my time any more.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/09/11 03:00 PM

so much for the magnetic theory .
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/09/11 04:17 PM

Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
After all some of them came up with Man Made Global Warming. Yes, the climate is changing, no we didn't do it, period. Anyone who takes a high school geography class prior to 1980 would know this.
What does a high school geography class prior to 1980 have to do with global warming?
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/09/11 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
Originally Posted By: pixie
nope been thinking out of the box all my life but you have to put practicality and real science behind any idea for free or new energy . Just because we wish to have free un-bountiful energy does not mean it exists. Scientists have looked at every possibilty over and over , we have experimented tested and played. No one has bought the ideas out like rumors say ie the 100 mph carburetor , there is no free lunch with energy.
.
but if you want to save money there are a lot of little in expensive things you can do to lower your electrical and fuel bills , put in all compact florescent bulbs , turn off the tv and a/c when you’re not using them ask around and Google there is a lot of information to lower your bills . we need to learn to use less energy and make it with less pollution.
Now you want to "teach/preach" to me? You are an arrogant cuss aren't you? I didn't come here to argue with an idiot. I came here to read about Fracking and exploring ALL alternatives would be part of that conversation, not just a few obvious ones run by people who want to fleece the American people. I don't trust "scientists" no more than I can throw them. After all some of them came up with Man Made Global Warming. Yes, the climate is changing, no we didn't do it, period. Anyone who takes a high school geography class prior to 1980 would know this. Any scientist would have to earn my respect and you are failing, if you even are one.

We're done pixie. Just agree to disagree with me. I surely won't be answering any more of your posts. You are not worth my time any more.


Exactly what I've said all along. She's just a over the hill quack pretending to know what modern technology is all about. She's made a fool of herself a number of times and her knowledge has been proven to be suspect at best. Now put her and her brother Kyle together and you've got a dynamic duo there. They've got enough theories to go around for a long time but the theories don't amount to anything because they can't back up anything with facts. True activists who like to run their mouth but don't have a clue what they're talking about.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/10/11 05:55 AM

Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
I'm sorry if this has been stated, but I don't feel like reading 3 pages. If Fracking was bad for our waters, wouldn't the EPA step in?
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/2011/02/27/news/doc4d6a35cb51ffa230073918.txt

Published: Sunday, February 27, 2011

In a major investigative report into the gas drilling technique knowns as hydrofracking, The New York Times is reporting that internal documents it obtained “from the Environmental Protection Agency, state regulators and drillers show that the dangers to the environment and health are greater than previously understood.”

Among the dangers, the Times concluded, are:

— that well wastewater, which can total more than 1 million gallons per drilling and can contain corrosive salts and carcinogens, often contains high levels of radioactive material and is inadequately treated before discharge into rivers that supply drinking water;

— E.P.A. scientists are “alarmed” at the threat posed by drilling waste to drinking water;

— a 2009 E.P.A. study that was never made public concluded some treatment plants could not remove some wastewater contaminants and, thus, were likely violating the law;

— other undisclosed studies by the E.P.A. and a confidential study by the drilling industry found that radioactivity in drilling waste cannot be completely diluted by discharge into rivers and other waterways; and

— despite these findings, the E.P.A. has taken no action to safeguard water supplies and water sources downstream of hydrofracking wastewater discharge have not been required to test for radioactivity.

“In other words,” the Times concludes, “there is no way of guaranteeing that the drinking water taken in by all these plants is safe.”
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/10/11 05:57 AM

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=14038331

By KRISTEN GELINEAU Associated Press
SYDNEY July 10, 2011 (AP)

Australia will force its 500 worst polluters to pay 23 Australian dollars ($25) for every ton of carbon dioxide they emit, with the government promising to compensate households hit with higher power bills under a plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions unveiled Sunday.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard sought to reassure wary Australians that the deeply unpopular carbon tax will only cause a minority of households to pay more and insisted it is critical to helping the country lower its massive carbon emissions. Australia is one of the world's worst greenhouse gas polluters, due to its heavy reliance on coal for electricity.

"We generate more carbon pollution per head than any other country in the developed world," Gillard told reporters in Canberra as she released details of the tax, which will go into effect on July 1, 2012. "We've got a lot of work to do to hold our place in the race that the world is running."

The government hopes businesses affected by the tax will seek out clean energy alternatives to reduce their bills. The affected companies will have to pay AU$23 per metric ton of carbon, with the price rising 2.5 percent a year until 2015, when the plan will move to a market-based emissions trading scheme.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/10/11 07:23 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
I'm sorry if this has been stated, but I don't feel like reading 3 pages. If Fracking was bad for our waters, wouldn't the EPA step in?
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/2011/02/27/news/doc4d6a35cb51ffa230073918.txt

Published: Sunday, February 27, 2011

In a major investigative report into the gas drilling technique knowns as hydrofracking, The New York Times is reporting that internal documents it obtained “from the Environmental Protection Agency, state regulators and drillers show that the dangers to the environment and health are greater than previously understood.”

Among the dangers, the Times concluded, are:

— that well wastewater, which can total more than 1 million gallons per drilling and can contain corrosive salts and carcinogens, often contains high levels of radioactive material and is inadequately treated before discharge into rivers that supply drinking water;

— E.P.A. scientists are “alarmed” at the threat posed by drilling waste to drinking water;

— a 2009 E.P.A. study that was never made public concluded some treatment plants could not remove some wastewater contaminants and, thus, were likely violating the law;

— other undisclosed studies by the E.P.A. and a confidential study by the drilling industry found that radioactivity in drilling waste cannot be completely diluted by discharge into rivers and other waterways; and

— despite these findings, the E.P.A. has taken no action to safeguard water supplies and water sources downstream of hydrofracking wastewater discharge have not been required to test for radioactivity.

“In other words,” the Times concludes, “there is no way of guaranteeing that the drinking water taken in by all these plants is safe.”



OMG! It's going to be a total disaster! How are we going to survive? What a joke! LMAO!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/10/11 07:43 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
OMG! It's going to be a total disaster! How are we going to survive? What a joke! LMAO!
Clean water is a big joke to you, isn't it? That is so sad.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/10/11 08:45 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
OMG! It's going to be a total disaster! How are we going to survive? What a joke! LMAO!
Clean water is a big joke to you, isn't it? That is so sad.


The big joke is people like you who make a mountain out of a molehill.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/10/11 11:20 PM

60 minutes piece. Pretty fair reporting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M-aDanmIYQ
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/11/11 06:47 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
OMG! It's going to be a total disaster! How are we going to survive? What a joke! LMAO!
Clean water is a big joke to you, isn't it? That is so sad.


from the second video in that series

But drilling is now a fact of life near homes and farms. And the industry has racked up thousands of accidents and safety violations above ground.
What happened in Tim and Christine Ruggiero's backyard is happening more and more: they moved to a pastoral ten-acre ranch in Decatur, Texas, in 2004 to raise their horses, and their daughter Reilly.


But in 2009, a company called Aruba Petroleum came and drilled two wells outside their windows, leaving behind a permanent eyesore.


It turns out the Ruggieros had bought the land, but didn't own the rights to the minerals beneath it.


"You see over here on this tank? And you see where it's just been still leaking?" Tim Ruggiero asked Stahl, pointing out a tank on his land. "Why is it doing that?"


That leaking is just the half of it: they videotaped oozings and gushings. When the state environmental agency shot video of hissing toxic air emissions with infrared cameras, the company was hit with a fine.


"I keep hearing that this process, the horizontal drilling and the fracking, is safe," Stahl said to the Ruggieros.


"Well, define safe. Safe for who? Safe in the process, or safe for the people that are 200 feet away from it?" Tim Ruggiero asked.


"They put a concrete casing down in the ground in between your water table and the drilling fluid, but cement doesn't ever crack? You don't ever have well blowouts?" Christine Ruggiero added.


In other words, taking shortcuts and human error are endemic to this drilling process.


On the Ruggieros' land, there were problems involving the gas company's equipment: valves weren't tightened; a tank, left unattended, overflowed; fluids spilled from a frack container. Aruba said they could not comment because the Ruggieros are suing them.
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/11/11 07:53 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
OMG! It's going to be a total disaster! How are we going to survive? What a joke! LMAO!
Clean water is a big joke to you, isn't it? That is so sad.
What clean water?
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/11/11 11:17 AM

By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA — A public hearing is scheduled for Tuesday’s Town Board
meeting on a local law that would prohibit hydraulic fracturing
drilling for natural gas in the town.

The proposed local law would amend Chapter 165 of the town code, adding hydrofracking to the list of prohibited activities.
Hydrofracking involves injecting a mix of water and chemicals into the ground under high pressure to break open or fracture
shale deposits, releasing trapped natural gas and bringing it to the surface.

The state has not yet allowed such drilling. Officials are studying how to regulate the process, but a decision is expected
soon.

The board will also hold a public hearing on a local law that amends Chapter 123 of the town code regarding site plan
reviews and subdivision of land. The amendments set new deadlines for developers to complete projects once they have been
approved and begun.

If you go ...
What: Geneva Town Board
When: 7 p.m. Tuesday
Where: Town Offices, 3750 County Road 6
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/11/11 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
OMG! It's going to be a total disaster! How are we going to survive? What a joke! LMAO!
Clean water is a big joke to you, isn't it? That is so sad.


from the second video in that series

But drilling is now a fact of life near homes and farms. And the industry has racked up thousands of accidents and safety violations above ground.
What happened in Tim and Christine Ruggiero's backyard is happening more and more: they moved to a pastoral ten-acre ranch in Decatur, Texas, in 2004 to raise their horses, and their daughter Reilly.


But in 2009, a company called Aruba Petroleum came and drilled two wells outside their windows, leaving behind a permanent eyesore.


It turns out the Ruggieros had bought the land, but didn't own the rights to the minerals beneath it.


"You see over here on this tank? And you see where it's just been still leaking?" Tim Ruggiero asked Stahl, pointing out a tank on his land. "Why is it doing that?"


That leaking is just the half of it: they videotaped oozings and gushings. When the state environmental agency shot video of hissing toxic air emissions with infrared cameras, the company was hit with a fine.


"I keep hearing that this process, the horizontal drilling and the fracking, is safe," Stahl said to the Ruggieros.


"Well, define safe. Safe for who? Safe in the process, or safe for the people that are 200 feet away from it?" Tim Ruggiero asked.


"They put a concrete casing down in the ground in between your water table and the drilling fluid, but cement doesn't ever crack? You don't ever have well blowouts?" Christine Ruggiero added.


In other words, taking shortcuts and human error are endemic to this drilling process.


On the Ruggieros' land, there were problems involving the gas company's equipment: valves weren't tightened; a tank, left unattended, overflowed; fluids spilled from a frack container. Aruba said they could not comment because the Ruggieros are suing them.




Of course there are going to be accidents. It's a industrial operation and there are humans involved. The accidents are no way near as bad as you portray. You people like to take a incident and blow it way out of proportion and make it sound like total devastaition.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/11/11 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
And the industry has racked up thousands of accidents and safety violations above ground.
Thousands of accidents and safety violations. \:\(
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/11/11 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
And the industry has racked up thousands of accidents and safety violations above ground.
Thousands of accidents and safety violations. \:\(



Over a million wells drilled. Safety violations are a joke. A inspector can find a violation on any site. It's a revenue source like traffic tickets.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/13/11 05:15 PM

According to a recent study, conducted by the Environmental Working Group (EWG), just one drilling site deploys harmful chemicals sufficient "to contaminate more than 100 billion gallons of drinking water to unsafe levels ... more than 10 times as much water as the entire state of New York uses in a single day."
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/13/11 05:54 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
According to a recent study, conducted by the Environmental Working Group (EWG), just one drilling site deploys harmful chemicals sufficient "to contaminate more than 100 billion gallons of drinking water to unsafe levels ... more than 10 times as much water as the entire state of New York uses in a single day."
You made-up this up?
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/13/11 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: pixie
According to a recent study, conducted by the Environmental Working Group (EWG), just one drilling site deploys harmful chemicals sufficient "to contaminate more than 100 billion gallons of drinking water to unsafe levels ... more than 10 times as much water as the entire state of New York uses in a single day."
You made-up this up?



no I did not make it up
ttp://www.ewg.org/EWG_Warns_of_Drilling_Threat_to_NYC_Drinking_Water
.
A major concern with petroleum distillates is benzene. To put the toxicity of benzene in perspective, and to demonstrate the risks to water supplies for New York City and other towns, consider these facts from the DEC’s draft EIS. The DEC estimates that the amount of water used to hydraulically fracture a single well in the Marcellus Shale will range from about one million gallons to eight million gallons. The DEC estimates that the amount of friction reducer mixed with the water will comprise about 0.08 percent of the total fracturing solution.
.
Petroleum distillates are commonly used as friction reducers and are also used in other components of fracturing solutions. Therefore, the amount of petroleum distillate used for fracturing a well in New York is likely to range from 800 gallons to 6,400 gallons (0.08 percent of between one and eight million gallons of water). Published levels of benzene in petroleum distillates with names similar to those used or likely to be used in New York range from 700 parts per million for 140˚ flash aliphatic solvent, to 1,000 parts per million for Stoddard Solvent to 4,000 parts per million for kerosene to 93,000 parts per million in naphtha solvents.
.
In other words, these levels of benzene range from 140,000 times the EPA’s safe level to 18.6 million times the EPA’s safe level. These figures mean that if 800 gallons of petroleum distillate were to contaminate a water supply, depending on the benzene concentration, it would likely take somewhere between 112 million gallons (800 X 140,000) and 14.9 billion gallons (800 X 18.6 million) of water to dilute the benzene to EPA’s safe level. If 6,400 gallons of petroleum distillate were to contaminate a water supply, it would likely take somewhere between 896 million and 119 billion gallons of water to dilute the benzene to EPA’s safe levels.
.
For comparison, the total amount of water used daily by New York City according to the DEC is 650 million gallons, or less than the amount of water that would be needed to dilute the benzene in a spill of petroleum distillates in many scenarios. In some cases, even the total amount of water used each day by the entire state of New York (9-10 billion gallons per day) would not be enough.
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/13/11 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: pixie
According to a recent study, conducted by the Environmental Working Group (EWG), just one drilling site deploys harmful chemicals sufficient "to contaminate more than 100 billion gallons of drinking water to unsafe levels ... more than 10 times as much water as the entire state of New York uses in a single day."
You made-up this up?



no I did not make it up
ttp://www.ewg.org/EWG_Warns_of_Drilling_Threat_to_NYC_Drinking_Water
.
A major concern with petroleum distillates is benzene. To put the toxicity of benzene in perspective, and to demonstrate the risks to water supplies for New York City and other towns, consider these facts from the DEC’s draft EIS. The DEC estimates that the amount of water used to hydraulically fracture a single well in the Marcellus Shale will range from about one million gallons to eight million gallons. The DEC estimates that the amount of friction reducer mixed with the water will comprise about 0.08 percent of the total fracturing solution.
.
Petroleum distillates are commonly used as friction reducers and are also used in other components of fracturing solutions. Therefore, the amount of petroleum distillate used for fracturing a well in New York is likely to range from 800 gallons to 6,400 gallons (0.08 percent of between one and eight million gallons of water). Published levels of benzene in petroleum distillates with names similar to those used or likely to be used in New York range from 700 parts per million for 140˚ flash aliphatic solvent, to 1,000 parts per million for Stoddard Solvent to 4,000 parts per million for kerosene to 93,000 parts per million in naphtha solvents.
.
In other words, these levels of benzene range from 140,000 times the EPA’s safe level to 18.6 million times the EPA’s safe level. These figures mean that if 800 gallons of petroleum distillate were to contaminate a water supply, depending on the benzene concentration, it would likely take somewhere between 112 million gallons (800 X 140,000) and 14.9 billion gallons (800 X 18.6 million) of water to dilute the benzene to EPA’s safe level. If 6,400 gallons of petroleum distillate were to contaminate a water supply, it would likely take somewhere between 896 million and 119 billion gallons of water to dilute the benzene to EPA’s safe levels.
.
For comparison, the total amount of water used daily by New York City according to the DEC is 650 million gallons, or less than the amount of water that would be needed to dilute the benzene in a spill of petroleum distillates in many scenarios. In some cases, even the total amount of water used each day by the entire state of New York (9-10 billion gallons per day) would not be enough.


What if they stopped using petroleum would you go away?
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/13/11 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: pixie
According to a recent study, conducted by the Environmental Working Group (EWG), just one drilling site deploys harmful chemicals sufficient "to contaminate more than 100 billion gallons of drinking water to unsafe levels ... more than 10 times as much water as the entire state of New York uses in a single day."
You made-up this up?



no I did not make it up
ttp://www.ewg.org/EWG_Warns_of_Drilling_Threat_to_NYC_Drinking_Water
.
A major concern with petroleum distillates is benzene. To put the toxicity of benzene in perspective, and to demonstrate the risks to water supplies for New York City and other towns, consider these facts from the DEC’s draft EIS. The DEC estimates that the amount of water used to hydraulically fracture a single well in the Marcellus Shale will range from about one million gallons to eight million gallons. The DEC estimates that the amount of friction reducer mixed with the water will comprise about 0.08 percent of the total fracturing solution.
.
Petroleum distillates are commonly used as friction reducers and are also used in other components of fracturing solutions. Therefore, the amount of petroleum distillate used for fracturing a well in New York is likely to range from 800 gallons to 6,400 gallons (0.08 percent of between one and eight million gallons of water). Published levels of benzene in petroleum distillates with names similar to those used or likely to be used in New York range from 700 parts per million for 140˚ flash aliphatic solvent, to 1,000 parts per million for Stoddard Solvent to 4,000 parts per million for kerosene to 93,000 parts per million in naphtha solvents.
.
In other words, these levels of benzene range from 140,000 times the EPA’s safe level to 18.6 million times the EPA’s safe level. These figures mean that if 800 gallons of petroleum distillate were to contaminate a water supply, depending on the benzene concentration, it would likely take somewhere between 112 million gallons (800 X 140,000) and 14.9 billion gallons (800 X 18.6 million) of water to dilute the benzene to EPA’s safe level. If 6,400 gallons of petroleum distillate were to contaminate a water supply, it would likely take somewhere between 896 million and 119 billion gallons of water to dilute the benzene to EPA’s safe levels.
.
For comparison, the total amount of water used daily by New York City according to the DEC is 650 million gallons, or less than the amount of water that would be needed to dilute the benzene in a spill of petroleum distillates in many scenarios. In some cases, even the total amount of water used each day by the entire state of New York (9-10 billion gallons per day) would not be enough.





BLAH BLAH BLAH! More activist crap! What if's and theories that's all you can come up with. You're a real rocket scientist. Morons like you are why there are no jobs and money in NY.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/13/11 08:50 PM

no because they also use sodium persulfate , which is almost as bad .
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/13/11 08:59 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
no because they also use sodium persulfate , which is almost as bad .
Whats going to happen when it -30 degrees outside and your pipes are frozen and you can't afford fuel?
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/13/11 09:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: pixie
no because they also use sodium persulfate , which is almost as bad .
Whats going to happen when it -30 degrees outside and your pipes are frozen and you can't afford fuel?



He's one of those arrogant goody goody lake people who doesn't stay here in the winter. He only cares about his own self interests not the rest of us.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 07:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: pixie
no because they also use sodium persulfate , which is almost as bad .
Whats going to happen when it -30 degrees outside and your pipes are frozen and you can't afford fuel?


Solar can easily heat my or your home, yes it costs money but it’s being done all over , Germany now has nearly 30 percent of the countries electrical power with solar , many European countries have significant solar programs, very little pollution and 5 year payback a win win situation. Good electric cars are starting to become available , I am installing 20kw of solar panels this fall and buying a all electric car , don’t need gas , or oil I only drive 20 miles a day so no problem. There are solutions we don’t need to pollute the very environment we live in the air we breathe or the water we drink.
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 07:11 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: pixie
no because they also use sodium persulfate , which is almost as bad .
Whats going to happen when it -30 degrees outside and your pipes are frozen and you can't afford fuel?


Solar can easily heat my or your home, yes it costs money but it’s being done all over , Germany now has nearly 30 percent of the countries electrical power with solar , many European countries have significant solar programs, very little pollution and 5 year payback a win win situation. Good electric cars are starting to become available , I am installing 20kw of solar panels this fall and buying a all electric car , don’t need gas , or oil I only drive 20 miles a day so no problem. There are solutions we don’t need to pollute the very environment we live in the air we breathe or the water we drink.
Right!! If you want to be like the Germans move to Germany!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 08:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Que
Right!! If you want to be like the Germans move to Germany!
Are you saying that all good ideas originate in the USA and the Germans could not possibly have a good idea? How arogant of you.
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 09:59 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Que
Right!! If you want to be like the Germans move to Germany!
Are you saying that all good ideas originate in the USA and the Germans could not possibly have a good idea? How arogant of you.

No! I said,"if you want to be like the Germans move to Germany"!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 10:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Que
Right!! If you want to be like the Germans move to Germany!
Are you saying that all good ideas originate in the USA and the Germans could not possibly have a good idea? How arogant of you.
No! I said,"if you want to be like the Germans move to Germany"!
Not necesary to do that. We will soon be following the Germans example here, I am sure, if we are to survive as a world power. It apears the Germans and many European countries are way ahead of us in using solar power and we have some catching up to do. I guess that bothers you, huh?
Quote:
Germany now has nearly 30 percent of the countries electrical power with solar , many European countries have significant solar programs
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 10:31 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Que
Right!! If you want to be like the Germans move to Germany!
Are you saying that all good ideas originate in the USA and the Germans could not possibly have a good idea? How arogant of you.
No! I said,"if you want to be like the Germans move to Germany"!
Not necesary to do that. We will soon be following the Germans example here, I am sure, if we are to survive as a world power. It apears the Germans and many European countries are way ahead of us in using solar power and we have some catching up to do. I guess that bothers you, huh?
Quote:
Germany now has nearly 30 percent of the countries electrical power with solar , many European countries have significant solar programs
Yea right!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 11:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Que
Not necesary to do that. We will soon be following the Germans example here, I am sure, if we are to survive as a world power. It apears the Germans and many European countries are way ahead of us in using solar power and we have some catching up to do. I guess that bothers you, huh?
Quote:
Yea right!
I don't know whether you are being facetious or not? But if other nations learn to use cleaner and more efficient energy than us and we continue with our old methods, we will soon be left in the dust both literally and figuratively.
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 11:54 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Que
Not necesary to do that. We will soon be following the Germans example here, I am sure, if we are to survive as a world power. It apears the Germans and many European countries are way ahead of us in using solar power and we have some catching up to do. I guess that bothers you, huh?
Quote:
Yea right!
I don't know whether you are being facetious or not? But if other nations learn to use cleaner and more efficient energy than us and we continue with our old methods, we will soon be left in the dust both literally and figuratively.
Quote:
nations learn to use cleaner and more efficient energy
Yes like natural gas!
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 03:44 PM

natural gas is hardly clean , all combustion products produce nasty byproducts , its cleaner then coal and oil but its not clean.
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 04:17 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
natural gas is hardly clean , all combustion products produce nasty byproducts , its cleaner then coal and oil but its not clean.

You produce nasty by-products and we aren't doing anything about you!
Posted by: SportsNut

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 04:32 PM

Pixie, you list chemicals that are not even used yet in NY yet for drilling as there is not drilling. The have done test on the lakes saying the salt levels are higher on Seneca lake then they where years ago. Well no drill has gone one yet. If you look at what as grown huge along Seneca Lakes are wineries and what have they planted Grapes. Do you know what most of these wineries spray on their grapes Copper sulfate (its a fungicide) and they add Bordeaux to the mixture. You are worried about something that won't happened for years yet in NY, but this is going on everyday in NY now. Most vineyards spray once a week or more. Where does 60 percent of this spray end up on the ground, then the run off to the lakes.
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Pixie, you list chemicals that are not even used yet in NY yet for drilling as there is not drilling. The have done test on the lakes saying the salt levels are higher on Seneca lake then they where years ago. Well no drill has gone one yet. If you look at what as grown huge along Seneca Lakes are wineries and what have they planted Grapes. Do you know what most of these wineries spray on their grapes Copper sulfate (its a fungicide) and they add Bordeaux to the mixture. You are worried about something that won't happened for years yet in NY, but this is going on everyday in NY now. Most vineyards spray once a week or more. Where does 60 percent of this spray end up on the ground, then the run off to the lakes.

The girls (pixie and kyle) should start a new thread about the evil grape growers.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: pixie
no because they also use sodium persulfate , which is almost as bad .
Whats going to happen when it -30 degrees outside and your pipes are frozen and you can't afford fuel?


Solar can easily heat my or your home, yes it costs money but it’s being done all over , Germany now has nearly 30 percent of the countries electrical power with solar , many European countries have significant solar programs, very little pollution and 5 year payback a win win situation. Good electric cars are starting to become available , I am installing 20kw of solar panels this fall and buying a all electric car , don’t need gas , or oil I only drive 20 miles a day so no problem. There are solutions we don’t need to pollute the very environment we live in the air we breathe or the water we drink.



Five year payback on solar? No way! Electric cars are not cost effective either. You will never get a payback out of that car. If everybody bought elaectric cars we would have to build more power plants that burn fossil fuels that pollute. You are a hypocrite that talks out of both sides of your mouth. Typical dumbo activist.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Pixie, you list chemicals that are not even used yet in NY yet for drilling as there is not drilling. The have done test on the lakes saying the salt levels are higher on Seneca lake then they where years ago. Well no drill has gone one yet. If you look at what as grown huge along Seneca Lakes are wineries and what have they planted Grapes. Do you know what most of these wineries spray on their grapes Copper sulfate (its a fungicide) and they add Bordeaux to the mixture. You are worried about something that won't happened for years yet in NY, but this is going on everyday in NY now. Most vineyards spray once a week or more. Where does 60 percent of this spray end up on the ground, then the run off to the lakes.



Because some one else is polluting that is reason for you to frack for gas , not in my book , I have complained also on farmers pollution most of which is preventable. my comment on other chemicals beside diesel fuel in fracking was aimed at anywhere they inject 10,000,000 gallons of water laced with dangerous chemicals to frack a well. We need to work on all items that potentialy damage the only world we live on.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 07:32 PM

solar panels right now are $1.27 per w in volume on a grid feed back system average output in florida type state is 8 x , so 160 kw per day at .13 per kw repay back from electrical company is 20.00 per day , with 300 average days of sun thats 6000 pay back per year , in 5 years thats 30k . I drive 30 miles per day average , at 5.40 per gal which is what we pay in bahamas thats more then 7 bucks per day or 2000 per year , the solar panels to drive the car and keep it charged is only 1kw of panels or 1300.00 the small electric car is 15,000 so pay back for both car and solar panels is 7 years after that free , no gas, very little maintiance, no oil changes little brake work with regenitive braking.no exhaust , no rad . very little polution Yes batteries but 10 year warrenty. not zero polution but best avaiable next to walking.
Posted by: SportsNut

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 07:53 PM

Yea solar is great idea or a Toyota Prius car too. Both these products use Rare Earths which are mined. You think a Gas well is bad google a rare earth mine. It takes tons of mined earth just to produce a few kilos of rare earth. Then think again about your solar panel or you Prius. Really makes me think my gas guzzler truck is a lot better for the environment then the so called green cars.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/08/31/us-mining-toyota-idUSTRE57U02B20090831
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/14/11 08:41 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
solar panels right now are $1.27 per w in volume on a grid feed back system average output in florida type state is 8 x , so 160 kw per day at .13 per kw repay back from electrical company is 20.00 per day , with 300 average days of sun thats 6000 pay back per year , in 5 years thats 30k . I drive 30 miles per day average , at 5.40 per gal which is what we pay in bahamas thats more then 7 bucks per day or 2000 per year , the solar panels to drive the car and keep it charged is only 1kw of panels or 1300.00 the small electric car is 15,000 so pay back for both car and solar panels is 7 years after that free , no gas, very little maintiance, no oil changes little brake work with regenitive braking.no exhaust , no rad . very little polution Yes batteries but 10 year warrenty. not zero polution but best avaiable next to walking.



How come you used Florida type state instead of NY. Could it be that solar panels in NY are not cost effective? Even after tax credits and rebates it will cost the average homeowner 8 to 10 grand to install solar panels. Not a five year payback at all. The new Chevy Volt at 40 grand would take over ten years to pay back and then you would have to replace the batteries. Not cost effective at all.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/15/11 07:22 AM

Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Yea solar is great idea or a Toyota Prius car too. Both these products use Rare Earths which are mined. You think a Gas well is bad google a rare earth mine. It takes tons of mined earth just to produce a few kilos of rare earth. Then think again about your solar panel or you Prius. Really makes me think my gas guzzler truck is a lot better for the environment then the so called green cars.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/08/31/us-mining-toyota-idUSTRE57U02B20090831


there is a big diffrence between a hybrid ie Prius which uses DC motors and magnets and a full electric car which uses AC drive type motors with no magnets just like a normal well pump type motor only 3 phase. and why is rare earth any worse then fracking for gas , becasue china choices to pollute why does that some how allow you to frack for gas and pollute .
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/15/11 07:42 AM

typical prius and electric car batteries are lasting well into 150,000 miles even up to 200,000 same as a normal car , so there not a big problem with todays technology . NY solar is about 70 percent of florid, numbers so 7 to 8 year in NY , what people forget is the extra power is sold back to the power company is most states. why does it mater what state you use NY electricl power is mostily from norther Quebec thats why we have a electrical grid.
.
One friend who has 100 percent solar in nevada makes 300 to 400 per month selling the extra power back which quickily decreases the payback time , solar panels last well into 25 years so its a money maker in the end.
.
15,000 for a small electric car in the usa have a look at
http://solarfox.ecrater.com/p/8743889/electric-car-kbev-a
.
solar panels .98 cents per w
http://www.sunelec.com/sun-solar-panel-110-watts-11040-vmp-p-1246.html
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/15/11 07:50 AM

if people put up solar panels and supply there own power to drive with why would it hurt the grid or need coal to provide the power . at a typical 30 miles per day drive which 80 percent of usa does you only need 1 to 2 kw of panels, to charge the car with inverter and battries 12,000 or less if you do your own instalation. many cars have a small gas engine for longer trips and there is now many charging stations showing up in California so why not here, low impact low pollution and free power. Many coutries are quickily puting electric cars into production, china will have 15 percent of vehicals electric , with 25 percent of total power solar with in 10 to 15 years .

so why are we spending billions on oil and billions making war with half the world for it , when for the same money we can put up enough solar , wind and geothermal to suppy the whole usa with low cost, low polution. time to get started
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/15/11 08:24 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
if people put up solar panels and supply there own power to drive with why would it hurt the grid or need coal to provide the power . at a typical 30 miles per day drive which 80 percent of usa does you only need 1 to 2 kw of panels, to charge the car with inverter and battries 12,000 or less if you do your own instalation. many cars have a small gas engine for longer trips and there is now many charging stations showing up in California so why not here, low impact low pollution and free power. Many coutries are quickily puting electric cars into production, china will have 15 percent of vehicals electric , with 25 percent of total power solar with in 10 to 15 years .

so why are we spending billions on oil and billions making war with half the world for it , when for the same money we can put up enough solar , wind and geothermal to suppy the whole usa with low cost, low polution. time to get started
Its nutters like you who have ruined this country! Don't try and jam your sustainability religion crap down peoples throats.
Posted by: Greymane

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/15/11 10:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: pixie
if people put up solar panels and supply there own power to drive with why would it hurt the grid or need coal to provide the power . at a typical 30 miles per day drive which 80 percent of usa does you only need 1 to 2 kw of panels, to charge the car with inverter and battries 12,000 or less if you do your own instalation. many cars have a small gas engine for longer trips and there is now many charging stations showing up in California so why not here, low impact low pollution and free power. Many coutries are quickily puting electric cars into production, china will have 15 percent of vehicals electric , with 25 percent of total power solar with in 10 to 15 years .

so why are we spending billions on oil and billions making war with half the world for it , when for the same money we can put up enough solar , wind and geothermal to suppy the whole usa with low cost, low polution. time to get started
Its nutters like you who have ruined this country! Don't try and jam your sustainability religion crap down peoples throats.


Actually, I am pretty sure it is lazy morons that have no real productive input who are ruining the country.
Posted by: SportsNut

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/15/11 11:15 AM

Pixie, Most Electric cars still use rare earths. You green people are just so brainwashed it is unreal. The US government wants to get all these electric cars on the road, where are we going to get all this extra electric for them. Our electric grid can not hand what are electric needs right now. Also what produces the electric Coal, Gas, Nuke power, some Hydro and a little solar and wind. Most Wind turbines require rare earth. We have enough Natural Gas in the NE to helps out and not relay on other countries.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/15/11 04:12 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Yea solar is great idea or a Toyota Prius car too. Both these products use Rare Earths which are mined. You think a Gas well is bad google a rare earth mine. It takes tons of mined earth just to produce a few kilos of rare earth. Then think again about your solar panel or you Prius. Really makes me think my gas guzzler truck is a lot better for the environment then the so called green cars.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/08/31/us-mining-toyota-idUSTRE57U02B20090831


there is a big diffrence between a hybrid ie Prius which uses DC motors and magnets and a full electric car which uses AC drive type motors with no magnets just like a normal well pump type motor only 3 phase. and why is rare earth any worse then fracking for gas , becasue china choices to pollute why does that some how allow you to frack for gas and pollute .



So ones OK but the others not? Kinda hypocritical isn't it.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/15/11 05:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Que
Originally Posted By: pixie
if people put up solar panels and supply there own power to drive with why would it hurt the grid or need coal to provide the power . at a typical 30 miles per day drive which 80 percent of usa does you only need 1 to 2 kw of panels, to charge the car with inverter and battries 12,000 or less if you do your own instalation. many cars have a small gas engine for longer trips and there is now many charging stations showing up in California so why not here, low impact low pollution and free power. Many coutries are quickily puting electric cars into production, china will have 15 percent of vehicals electric , with 25 percent of total power solar with in 10 to 15 years .

so why are we spending billions on oil and billions making war with half the world for it , when for the same money we can put up enough solar , wind and geothermal to suppy the whole usa with low cost, low polution. time to get started
Its nutters like you who have ruined this country! Don't try and jam your sustainability religion crap down peoples throats.


how do you connect a nutter susbstainabilty religin with good solid smart engineering which allows you to drive a resonable nice car 100 miles a day for free , no gas no oil very little cost , just a few bucks up front . I would jut call that a good idea nothing to do with religin or sustainability , just not spending money on gas for the rest of your life .
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/15/11 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Yea solar is great idea or a Toyota Prius car too. Both these products use Rare Earths which are mined. You think a Gas well is bad google a rare earth mine. It takes tons of mined earth just to produce a few kilos of rare earth. Then think again about your solar panel or you Prius. Really makes me think my gas guzzler truck is a lot better for the environment then the so called green cars.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/08/31/us-mining-toyota-idUSTRE57U02B20090831


there is a big diffrence between a hybrid ie Prius which uses DC motors and magnets and a full electric car which uses AC drive type motors with no magnets just like a normal well pump type motor only 3 phase. and why is rare earth any worse then fracking for gas , becasue china choices to pollute why does that some how allow you to frack for gas and pollute .



So ones OK but the others not? Kinda hypocritical isn't it.


well of cource all I said is some types of electric hybrid cars have dc motors which use magents and some use ac drive which does not use magnets , it was the drill baby drill side who brought up magnets and polution not me I was only commenting that not all cars use the magnets.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/15/11 05:37 PM

Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Pixie, Most Electric cars still use rare earths. You green people are just so brainwashed it is unreal. The US government wants to get all these electric cars on the road, where are we going to get all this extra electric for them. Our electric grid can not hand what are electric needs right now. Also what produces the electric Coal, Gas, Nuke power, some Hydro and a little solar and wind. Most Wind turbines require rare earth. We have enough Natural Gas in the NE to helps out and not relay on other countries.


sorry but as I said many real electric cars us ac drive , and NO MAGNETS besides sicence does move on they have a new ferrite maget which uses ceramics and iron oxide , very litte pollution . there is no magnets in solar cells and it uses plane old sand which is mostily silicon. you can have all the energy you need for a electric car right on your roof no huge power plans needed, sure you may get a day or two you need to charge the car from a electrical plug , but a full battery or tank is only 2.50 . but it does reqire a small to some large to others investment . oh and the want to escape out of the dark ages where we only can think far enough ahead to burn up all our natural recourses. It has been said by many people .dont use up the our oil as fuel to drive to the store , we need to save whats left for better uses such as plastics and other usefull products.
Posted by: Que

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/16/11 06:21 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Pixie, Most Electric cars still use rare earths. You green people are just so brainwashed it is unreal. The US government wants to get all these electric cars on the road, where are we going to get all this extra electric for them. Our electric grid can not hand what are electric needs right now. Also what produces the electric Coal, Gas, Nuke power, some Hydro and a little solar and wind. Most Wind turbines require rare earth. We have enough Natural Gas in the NE to helps out and not relay on other countries.


sorry but as I said many real electric cars us ac drive , and NO MAGNETS besides sicence does move on they have a new ferrite maget which uses ceramics and iron oxide , very litte pollution . there is no magnets in solar cells and it uses plane old sand which is mostily silicon. you can have all the energy you need for a electric car right on your roof no huge power plans needed, sure you may get a day or two you need to charge the car from a electrical plug , but a full battery or tank is only 2.50 . but it does reqire a small to some large to others investment . oh and the want to escape out of the dark ages where we only can think far enough ahead to burn up all our natural recourses. It has been said by many people .dont use up the our oil as fuel to drive to the store , we need to save whats left for better uses such as plastics and other usefull products.
What a big pile of steaming pus you dished up lady. You need to put on your walking shoes a take a hike, because I think you're a waste of natural resources.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/16/11 09:55 AM

what country uses the most solar panels?

Gloomy-skied Germany seems to hold the record at the time this article was written. Cloudier by far than many other countries, Germany has nevertheless become the global leader in electricity generated through solar panels. It produces about half of the world’s total solar electricity.

Germany adopted a law in 2000 that requires the country’s immense power companies to subsidize new solar companies by buying electricity from them at marked-up rates. In 2002, Germans installed more than 10,000 solar panel systems. In 2003, they installed some 20,000 solar panel systems, almost twice the number installed the previous year. This growth continued in 2004. In 2005, Germany was the fastest growing major solar panel market in the world.

As of May 2007, 15 of the 20 biggest solar panel plants in the world are in Germany, even though Germany has only half as many sunny days as countries such as Portugal. The German government decided to phase out all of its nuclear power plants by 2020.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/16/11 10:03 AM

With fossil fuels in limited supply, the sun represents an energy source that is indefinitely renewable, and does not contribute to global warming or air pollution. Solar energy is used in many countries throughout the world to heat homes and water and to supply electricity.

Japan
Japan produces about 45 percent of the world's solar energy, and exports as much as 30 percent of this energy to other countries, according to Evergreen University. While much of this solar production occurs at large commercial solar plants, Japan also encourages solar use for private residences. According to the University of Michigan, Japan is the world leader in terms of the number of home solar systems, including those used for thermal heating, water heating and electricity production.



Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/148653-which-countries-use-solar-energy/#ixzz1SHROemru
Posted by: newsman38

Re: Natural Gas Flip-Flop - 07/23/11 10:21 AM

Natural Gas Flip-Flop

The national green lobbies initially welcomed shale gas. In 2009, for example, Robert Kennedy Jr., head of the Waterkeeper Alliance, called it “an obvious bridge fuel to the ‘new’ energy economy.” Local environmental activists were not as enthusiastic, arguing that fracking contaminates drinking water and causes other forms of pollution. After a while, some of the national lobbies began to come around to the locals’ side. In the words of the journalist Matt Ridley, “it became apparent that shale gas was a competitive threat to renewable energy.” Josh Fox, director of the anti–natural gas documentary Gasland, put it bluntly on Kennedy’s radio show: “What’s really happening here is not a battle between natural gas and coal. What’s happening here is a battle between another dirty fossil fuel and renewable energy.”

Indeed, natural gas is cheaper than renewable sources of energy, even if you include the costs of carbon capture and sequestration. The EIA’s Annual Energy Outlook for 2011 calculates the levelized costs of electric power generation for various fuel sources. (Levelized costs include all capital, operating and maintenance, fuel, and transmission costs for building plants now that would switch on by 2016.) Electricity produced using natural gas in a combined cycle generating plant comes in at $66 per megawatt-hour. By contrast, offshore wind clocks in at $243 per megawatt-hour, photovoltaic at $211, solar thermal at $312, geothermal at $102, and biomass at $113. The only renewable sources that are close to competitive with natural gas are onshore wind at $97 per megawatt-hour and hydroelectric at $86.

Ridley cites five claims against fracking: Fracking fluids contain dangerous chemicals that might contaminate groundwater; wells allow gas to escape into aquifers; well wastewater is contaminated with salt and radioactive elements that pollute streams; fracking uses too much fresh water; and drilling damages landscapes.

The shale that contains natural gas lies below thousands of feet of impermeable rock, so the fracking process itself will not contaminate drinking water aquifers, which generally are only a few hundred feet below the surface at most. A 2010 Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection report noted that, according to the Pennsylvania Bureau of Watershed Management, “no groundwater pollution or disruption of underground sources of drinking water have been attributed to hydraulic fracturing of deep gas formations.”

As with conventional wells, it is possible that natural gas can escape into aquifers if the wells are not properly sealed using steel and cement casings. An April study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences found elevated levels of natural gas in groundwater wells within 3,000 feet of active gas well sites. The researchers concluded that the source is likely leaky casings. More reassuringly, the study “found no evidence for contamination of the shallow [water] wells near active drilling sites from deep brines and/or fracturing fluids.” In any case, should their findings stand up to subsequent research, the problem is not fracking but improperly sealed well casings.

What about radioactive contamination of streams by well wastewater? The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection announced that after checking samples taken downstream from the wastewater plants that had treated gas well water, it found that “all samples were at or below background levels of radioactivity; and all samples showed levels below the federal drinking water standard for Radium 226 and 228.”

As far as using too much fresh water is concerned, Ridley points out that gas drilling in Pennsylvania uses about 60 million gallons per day, which compares to 1,550 million gallons used by public water systems. Ridley also notes that each well site takes up about six acres to extract gas beneath 1,000 acres, which is largely left alone once a well begins producing.

There’s another argument against fracking. In the April issue of Climatic Change, a team of researchers led by the Cornell ecologist Robert Howarth suggested that the greenhouse gas emissions released by natural gas production are worse than those produced by burning coal. Natural gas is methane, which on a molecule per molecule basis has a much greater ability to trap heat from the sun than carbon dioxide does. Howarth claims that methane leaking from natural gas wells contributes so much to global warming that the benefits of substituting it for coal are overwhelmed.

There are a number of problems with this study. Climatologists generally consider the effect of methane over a 100-year period, for example, but Howarth used a 20-year period, a change that automatically quadruples methane’s warming effect. And now the Department of Energy’s National Energy Technology Laboratory has done a life cycle analysis of gas versus coal. The lab concluded that “average natural gas baseload power generation has a life cycle global warming potential 50 percent lower than average coal baseload power generation on a 20-year time horizon.” So even accepting Howarth’s two-decade horizon, natural gas is much better than coal.

No industrial process is completely benign, and all have environmental consequences. The relevant question is: Do the benefits outweigh the costs? Are people better off using the resource than they would otherwise be? Of course, any company that damages some else’s property should be fully liable for the costs.

But if you’re worried about man-made global warming, natural gas remains the affordable way to supply lower-carbon energy to the world as technologists work to bring renewable energy costs down.

Big environmental groups were for fracking before they were against it.
Ronald Bailey
Reason Magazine
August/September 2011 issue
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/25/11 07:47 AM

How Green Is Your HUNGRY BEAST...ahahahahaha!
Posted by: brainman

Re: Natural Gas Flip-Flop - 07/25/11 07:42 PM

..Home News Local Local .A CONVERSATION WITH : Scott Cline and Brad Gill
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Gill
.. Posted: Monday, July 25, 2011 11:23 am | Updated: 11:28 am, Mon Jul 25, 2011.

A CONVERSATION WITH : Scott Cline and Brad Gill 0 comments

“A Conversation ...” is a regular Times feature, designed to give our readers a glimpse of various individuals who stop in and share an hour or so of their time, talking with us about today’s issues.

Independent Oil and Gas Association officials

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SCOTT CLINE

Age: 57

Background: Doctorate in petroleum engineering, 20 years of petroleum and geology experience with the oil and gas industry in Texas and Oklahoma

Lives: Stanley

Family: Wife and four children

BRAD GILL

Age: 55

Background: Petroleum geologist. Has geology consulting practice. Vice president of Chautauqua Energy Drilling

Lives: Eden

Family: Wife and three children

FLT: Tell us a bit about the Independent Oil and Gas Association.

GILL: We are a trade association. We’re comprised of about 400 members, and we represent, really, I think all facets of the industry in New York state, both natural gas and oil.

FLT: Why did you want to come in and talk with us today?

GILL: In a nutshell, the main reason why we do want to reach out to people is because of the great amount of misinformation that’s out there in the public realm.

FLT: Is the misinformation specific to the hydraulic fracturing method of natural gas drilling, also called hydrofracking? Or is it all facets of the industry?

GILL: Well, certainly hydraulic fracturing has garnered the attention of the public and is a very divisive issue. But it really transcends, I think, many areas of our operations.

FLT: What are some of the biggest misconceptions?

GILL: There are so many it’s hard to say what tops the list. But I would say one of the biggest ones is groundwater protection. I think if there’s any issue that I think most people are very concerned about — and we understand their concerns and their fears — it would be groundwater protection.

FLT: That’s a big issue here, with all the lakes we have.

GILL: Historically, the industry has its roots in western New York, and that’s where there are tens of thousands of wells drilled in these communities. For example, Chautauqua County. There’s approximately 5,400 wells drilled in Chautauqua alone.

Chautauqua County looks very much like the Finger Lakes region. You’ve got Chautauqua Lake, Findley Lake. You’ve got vineyards everywhere. And you’ve got a lot of wells there. So that’s where the roots of the industry are. But then as you get out this way, yes, there has been drilling out in the Finger Lakes region and points east and south of here, but not the density of drilling. So we understand that it seems like it’s new to the public out here, but it really isn’t.

FLT: What has the environmental impact been, if any, in those areas you mentioned?

GILL: Number one, make sure that you understand these are vertical wells for the most part. There have been a couple horizontal wells drilled, but they are vertical wells, and traditionally they are hydraulically fractured using less fluid than what would be used in the deeper horizontal Marcellus or Utica [shales] drilling that we hope would be taking place soon out this way.

But as far as environmental impacts, absolutely minimal. Any incident that may have occurred with a drill site would have been minimal, easily remediated.

FLT: Why does the industry want to pursue hydrofracking in this area?

GILL: It’s not even so much about industry being interested in it. It’s an absolute necessity. Anybody who would say, “I don’t mind natural gas drilling, I just don’t like the idea of hydraulically fracturing wells,” one would not exist without the other in 90 percent of the drilling that’s going to take place.

It’s an absolute necessity in order for us to recover the natural gas and in order for us to make New York state a game player in this industry with natural gas and in order to help with our nation’s energy picture and security.

FLT: What would the economic impact be for a region that has these wells?

GILL: All we can do right now is maybe look at Pennsylvania, because there’s been activity in the past couple years. I think there’s 48,000 jobs that have been created, according to the Department of Labor in Pennsylvania, and I believe about $2.3 billion in economic impact.

So the job creation is truly staggering. If you go down to Williamsport, Towanda, Wellsville ... the hotels are full, and the restaurants are full. The dealerships are flourishing, and the economies are just booming. One of the counties in Pennsylvania has the lowest unemployment rate of the entire state because of the Marcellus activity.

So at a time when we have a $10 billion deficit in New York state, we can contribute significantly to that in the form of jobs, taxes to the municipalities ... and certainly payments to landowners.

CLINE: If you look at the typical, average Marcellus wells that we’re finding in the Northern Tier of Pennsylvania, they’re [averaging] $2 million dollars of revenue, royalties .... In terms of property tax, if you take the first year’s average production that we’re finding on these wells in Pennsylvania and apply that to how we tax oil and gas in this state ... it ranges between $275,000 and $300,000 that the operator has to pay for one well ....

We expect this not to be a boom and bust cycle. It’s going to go on for probably 50 years or more.

FLT: People worry about contamination, and we’ve all seen the videos out of Pennsylvania where people are setting their tap water on fire. What’s your response?

GILL: That almost tops the list as far as the misinformation out there. People watch “Gasland,” they see a tap being lit on fire, and they think right away, “That’s what happens when a company comes in and drills.”

That’s not what happens when a company comes in and drills.

The Colorado Oil and Gas Commission confirmed that that was not due to — in that particular scene, I forget the gentleman’s name — but they investigated that, and they determined that that was in fact a pre-existing condition ....

Naturally occurring methane is prevalent all across this state, including Pennsylvania and other areas too, Ohio. Where I’m at there are [things] called eternal flames. Kids’ll go down to creeks and light these flames in the creeks.

The problem was so great in Chautauqua County many decades ago, there were homes that were being heated off of the methane from their water well. Has nothing to do with gas drilling ....

FLT: What about other factors, such as the chemicals used in the process, and the potential for them getting into our lakes?

CLINE: If you look at the regulations ... they address all of those potential issues very stringently. I am very confident that those regulations will prevent the kinds of incidents that we have had occasionally ....

I think most people agree, including the EPA, that the [water injected] in the subsurface is locked in the formation for geologic time. It is not a threat to the groundwater ....

Where we have had some incidents are surface incidents, a spill. But our pads are constructed in New York through a strict stormwater construction plan ... Even if there is a spill at the well location, it is contained to that location. We have requirements for testing of the blowout preventers. There has to be a double-barrier system. You have to have a well control expert on location during any fracture stimulation — several layers of incremental protection that Pennsylvania did not have in place at the time.

FLT: In the wake of the Gulf oil spill, people may hear assurances like that and say, well, what if something unforeseen happens? Or what if the regulations aren’t followed?

CLINE: Well, breaking the regulations, that’s what we have the DEC for .... They will not even issue permits beyond their capability to enforce ....

Regarding the Gulf Oil spill, that was a blowout similar to what happened at the well in Clearfield County, Pennsylvania. The difference is you’re talking about 5,000 feet of water, offshore, very difficult conditions to control it. A blowout onshore is very unlikely to begin with .... A blowout on the surface can be controlled in a matter of hours to days at the worst case scenario.

And in the worst-case scenario that happened in Pennsylvania, I think it was 50,000 gallons spilled, which sounds like a lot. And certainly it did damage to that localized area around the pad, but it’s not widespread. You’re talking about a single well head at the surface that’s easily accessible. It’s impossible to have anything comparable to what you had in the Gulf oil spill. And it’s a good reason to be drilling onshore, I think.

GILL: I’ve heard that before, too, people talking about “What absolute assurances can you give that nothing well go wrong.” When I hear that, I think, name an industry, name a sector of society, that has zero risk, where nothing can go wrong ....

We all live with those risks in society. What you have to look at is the risks versus the benefit. And we think that the benefit of us sitting on top of a portion of the second-largest gas field in the world when we import 95 percent of our gas in New York here, it’s incredible. It’s staggering. The benefit versus the risk — and believe me the risk is absolutely minimal — to us as an industry, it’s a no-brainer ....

FLT: A number of towns have discussed or passed local drilling moratoriums. What’s your reaction?

GILL: Our initial reaction is that a town cannot supersede the primacy that the New York state DEC has with regard to regulating the industry. And I think the towns know and understand that ....

I think a town can enact zoning laws that may interfere with our operations, but it’s our position that a town would not be able to enact zoning laws that are prejudicial or biased against one particular industry.

FLT: Assuming this is as safe and as beneficial as you suggest, why are people concerned?

GILL: I think it’s new to the area. I think we’ve got well-funded, well-organized opposition groups that have an agenda. And I think in time when we are drilling and this dust has settled, I think you will see some of these opposition groups adopt another issue to take on.

I think its unfamiliarity with the industry, the fear that has been put in the public through spreading misinformation.

CLINE: ... I know for a fact that many of the organizers, even some of our local organizations, are staunchly anti-fossil fuel and will use any information to stop it, whether it’s sensationalized or factual, it doesn’t really matter.

FLT: Do you regard the opposition as well-intentioned but misinformed, or is there some other motivation?

CLINE: Their philosophical position is that they would like to move to renewables and away from fossil fuel. That comes with a cost. That’s just a philosophical difference, like being a Republican versus a Democrat.

What I do object to, though, is they just don’t come out and say that .... What they do is, they sensationalize. They take isolated incidents and blow them out of proportion just to make scare tactics to advance their agenda, and I object to that tactic. I think that’s wrong. Just come out and say, “We’re against fossil fuels, and we would support subsidies for alternative energy.” And say that’s our position and try to advance that, rather than trying to attack what I think is a well-run, generally accident-free industry that is really lowering our fuel cost and lessening our dependence on foreign sources.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: Natural Gas Flip-Flop - 07/25/11 08:01 PM

Quote:
GILL: There are so many it’s hard to say what tops the list. But I would say one of the biggest ones is groundwater protection. I think if there’s any issue that I think most people are very concerned about — and we understand their concerns and their fears — it would be groundwater protection.

FLT: That’s a big issue here, with all the lakes we have.


FLT jumps at the chance to demonstrate that it thinks surface water is groundwater. Derrrrr!
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/27/11 02:07 PM

Posted by: Greymane

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/27/11 02:47 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Japan produces about 45 percent of the world's solar energy...


Originally Posted By: pixie
Germany has nevertheless become the global leader in electricity generated through solar panels. It produces about half of the world’s total solar electricity.


I might be off on my math, but according to your posts, Pixie, Germany and Japan produce 95% of the worlds solar power. Are we really expected to believe that?
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/27/11 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: pixie
Japan produces about 45 percent of the world's solar energy...


Originally Posted By: pixie
Germany has nevertheless become the global leader in electricity generated through solar panels. It produces about half of the world’s total solar electricity.


I might be off on my math, but according to your posts, Pixie, Germany and Japan produce 95% of the worlds solar power. Are we really expected to believe that?

Gray, you have to realize the guy works in a sewer plant and he's been gassed a number of times with Methane Gas and he's a little cooked!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/27/11 03:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: pixie
Japan produces about 45 percent of the world's solar energy...


Originally Posted By: pixie
Germany has nevertheless become the global leader in electricity generated through solar panels. It produces about half of the world’s total solar electricity.


I might be off on my math, but according to your posts, Pixie, Germany and Japan produce 95% of the worlds solar power. Are we really expected to believe that?

http://1bog.org/blog/top-10-countries-using-solar-power/

Germany is clearly the world leader. In 2009 alone, Germany installed 3,806 megawatts (MW) of PV solar energy capacity, which is more than Spain’s total capacity and almost eight times more than the U.S. installed last year.

Spain was the world leader in newly installed PV solar energy (2,605 MW) in 2008

Japan is third globally and also a country worth emulating
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/27/11 04:40 PM

Germany generates 7/10 of a % of its electricity from solar.

Interesting pie graph:
http://www.euronuclear.org/images/clip_image002_0006.jpg
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing *DELETED* - 07/27/11 06:06 PM

Post deleted by FL1 Staff
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/27/11 07:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
You and pixie girl could start farting in a empty soda bottles and save the bottles up for use in a fart light or a fart hearter!
Why FL1 allows you to keep posting on here I don't understand.
Posted by: Top Dog

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/27/11 07:12 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Germany generates 7/10 of a % of its electricity from solar.

Interesting pie graph:
http://www.euronuclear.org/images/clip_image002_0006.jpg


7/10 of a % or 95%. What's almost all of the world's generated power amongst friends?

Engage brain before pressing send, Kyle.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/27/11 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Germany generates 7/10 of a % of its electricity from solar.

Interesting pie graph:
http://www.euronuclear.org/images/clip_image002_0006.jpg
Is this pie chart supposed to be of Germany? I don't see where it says that.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/27/11 07:48 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
You and pixie girl could start farting in a empty soda bottles and save the bottles up for use in a fart light or a fart hearter!
Why FL1 allows you to keep posting on here I don't understand.




I ask the same question when I read some of your posts especially the theories.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/27/11 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Germany generates 7/10 of a % of its electricity from solar.

Interesting pie graph:
http://www.euronuclear.org/images/clip_image002_0006.jpg
Is this pie chart supposed to be of Germany? I don't see where it says that.


Of course it's of Germany. You talked about Germany in your posts. I said in mine that Germany generates 0.7% of its electricity from solar. The pie graph says 0.7% from solar. How can you be so thick? Did you think it was a pie chart showing how I generate electricity at my house?

http://www.euronuclear.org/info/encyclopedia/p/pow-gen-ger.htm
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 05:11 AM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Germany generates 7/10 of a % of its electricity from solar.

Interesting pie graph:
http://www.euronuclear.org/images/clip_image002_0006.jpg
Is this pie chart supposed to be of Germany? I don't see where it says that.
Of course it's of Germany. You talked about Germany in your posts. I said in mine that Germany generates 0.7% of its electricity from solar. The pie graph says 0.7% from solar. How can you be so thick? Did you think it was a pie chart showing how I generate electricity at my house?

http://www.euronuclear.org/info/encyclopedia/p/pow-gen-ger.htm
Your first link did not say it was Germany or where it was. Your second link explains it. If you had posted that second link the first time, there would not of been any confusion!
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 08:27 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Germany generates 7/10 of a % of its electricity from solar.

Interesting pie graph:
http://www.euronuclear.org/images/clip_image002_0006.jpg
Is this pie chart supposed to be of Germany? I don't see where it says that.
Of course it's of Germany. You talked about Germany in your posts. I said in mine that Germany generates 0.7% of its electricity from solar. The pie graph says 0.7% from solar. How can you be so thick? Did you think it was a pie chart showing how I generate electricity at my house?

http://www.euronuclear.org/info/encyclopedia/p/pow-gen-ger.htm
Your first link did not say it was Germany or where it was. Your second link explains it. If you had posted that second link the first time, there would not of been any confusion!



It doesn't take much to confuse people like you!
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 01:39 PM

Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 08:00 PM

Quote:
If you had posted that second link the first time, there would not of been any confusion!


First of all, it's "have been".

Why would I EVER put any other country's graph in there, and precede the graph with a comment about Germany's solar power generation? For what purpose?

If you were confused by it, then you have a major problem.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 08:03 PM



Where are photovoltaic solar cells made?
Over 90% of worldwide photovoltaic (PV) solar panel production occurs outside the
United States. In 2007, Japan was the world’s largest PV solar cell producer,
manufacturing nearly 1 gigawatt (1,000 megawatts, MW) each year. China was the
second largest PV producer, followed by Germany, Taiwan, and the U.S., in fifth place
producing 266 MW, nearly one-quarter the amount produced by Japan and less than 10%
of the world’s production.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 08:13 PM

i am sorry I ether mistyped or mis read one report Germany seems to have more like 16 percent soalr and wind not the 30 peercent I said , but it is planing 47 percent by 2020

the japan solar 45 percent is sales of solar panels not total energy.

As European countries and others around the world rethink their nuclear power strategies, traders are shifting their money into renewable energy, solar in particular. German solar panel company, Solarworld AG, is among the biggest beneficiaries; the company has seen its stock soared more than 30 percent since the government announced its decision to shut down seven plants and reassess its long-term nuclear power strategy.

Renewable energy interest groups in Germany are seizing the opportunity to promote alternative energy sources.

"If the federal government is really serious about an accelerated development of renewable energy, it must permanently withdraw the lifetime extension of nuclear power plants and not just for three months," said Dietmar Schutz, president of the German Renewable Energy Federation (BEE). "The extension is not a bridge, but a serious obstacle to the necessary restructuring of our energy system."

Currently, nuclear energy accounts for 23 percent of German energy and renewable energies 16 percent. Schutz said that renewable energies would be able to cover 47 percent of German energy demand by 2020.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie


Where are photovoltaic solar cells made?
Over 90% of worldwide photovoltaic (PV) solar panel production occurs outside the
United States. In 2007, Japan was the world’s largest PV solar cell producer,
manufacturing nearly 1 gigawatt (1,000 megawatts, MW) each year. China was the
second largest PV producer, followed by Germany, Taiwan, and the U.S., in fifth place producing 266 MW, nearly one-quarter the amount produced by Japan and less than 10%
of the world’s production.


If you're going to lecture me, at least use current info. Solar is a fast-moving sector, and 4 year old info is pretty useless. BTW, my bet is that you misread the report. Read this one slowly.:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/business/energy-environment/15solar.html?pagewanted=all
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
i am sorry I ether mistyped or mis read one report Germany seems to have more like 16 percent soalr and wind not the 30 peercent I said , but it is planing 47 percent by 2020

the japan solar 45 percent is sales of solar panels not total energy.

As European countries and others around the world rethink their nuclear power strategies, traders are shifting their money into renewable energy, solar in particular. German solar panel company, Solarworld AG, is among the biggest beneficiaries; the company has seen its stock soared more than 30 percent since the government announced its decision to shut down seven plants and reassess its long-term nuclear power strategy.

Renewable energy interest groups in Germany are seizing the opportunity to promote alternative energy sources.

"If the federal government is really serious about an accelerated development of renewable energy, it must permanently withdraw the lifetime extension of nuclear power plants and not just for three months," said Dietmar Schutz, president of the German Renewable Energy Federation (BEE). "The extension is not a bridge, but a serious obstacle to the necessary restructuring of our energy system."

Currently, nuclear energy accounts for 23 percent of German energy and renewable energies 16 percent. Schutz said that renewable energies would be able to cover 47 percent of German energy demand by 2020.




Another one of your many mistakes. You tout how brillant you are all the time with your sheep Kyle! What a joke! LMAO!
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: pixie


Where are photovoltaic solar cells made?
Over 90% of worldwide photovoltaic (PV) solar panel production occurs outside the
United States. In 2007, Japan was the world’s largest PV solar cell producer,
manufacturing nearly 1 gigawatt (1,000 megawatts, MW) each year. China was the
second largest PV producer, followed by Germany, Taiwan, and the U.S., in fifth place producing 266 MW, nearly one-quarter the amount produced by Japan and less than 10%
of the world’s production.


If you're going to lecture me, at least use current info. BTW, my bet is that you misread the report. Read this one slowly. Move your lips if it helps:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/business/energy-environment/15solar.html?pagewanted=all




Just goes to show how credible his information is.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 09:35 PM

Although he's sometimes careless with facts, and often overly preachy, I do agree that solar is important.

What I don't agree with is government subsidies for installation and purchase. It's time is coming quickly, and prices are dropping rapidly.

I'm not in favor of pushing it too rapidly, by artificial means and government market distortion. The fact that it is still more expensive than some other energy technologies is precisely what will push its improvement.

Right now, and at this latitude, in this continental climate, I think passive solar heating and better insulation is the way to go. You've got to have windows anyway; they should be designed into the correct locations.

Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 09:55 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Although he's sometimes careless with facts, and often overly preachy, I do agree that solar is important.

What I don't agree with is government subsidies for installation and purchase. It's time is coming quickly, and prices are dropping rapidly.

I'm not in favor of pushing it too rapidly, by artificial means and government market distortion. The fact that it is still more expensive than some other energy technologies is precisely what will push its improvement.

Right now, and at this latitude, in this continental climate, I think passive solar heating and better insulation is the way to go. You've got to have windows anyway; they should be designed into the correct locations.




Solar is part of our energy future no question. To do it economicly it's at least 5 to 10 years away.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/28/11 11:08 PM

I wouldn't be so sure it will take even 5 yrs, brainman:

"World prices have fallen as much as two-thirds in the last three years — including a drop of 10 percent during last year’s fourth quarter alone."
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 12:56 PM

Weakening earth through hydrofracking is problematic

To the Editor:

In regards to the hydrofracking interview in Monday’s paper (Times “A Conversation With ...” July 25): Let’s step back and look at the big picture. Our earth is essentially a giant round egg with a hard rock crust and a center of white hot molten rock, gasses and energy. That rock crust is cracked/broken into huge sections, which we call plates.

When the energy in the core builds up enough, something must give, and that results in a volcano eruption or an earthquake as the rock plates adjust to relieve the internal pressure. Imagine the force needed to make this happen.

The hydrofrackers’ plan is to break up the rock shell under Pennsylvania and New York to extract more gas faster. The rock crust below us will be turned into a two-state, giant weak spot in the rock surface, as it will essentially be an area of shattered (crushed) stone. When the pressure once again builds to be enough to shuffle the giant plates as it did recently in Japan, will this weak spot open up to relieve the pressure? Will we become the newest volcano on the planet? What do you call safe?

BART GOULD
Waterloo
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Weakening earth through hydrofracking is problematic

To the Editor:

In regards to the hydrofracking interview in Monday’s paper (Times “A Conversation With ...” July 25): Let’s step back and look at the big picture. Our earth is essentially a giant round egg with a hard rock crust and a center of white hot molten rock, gasses and energy. That rock crust is cracked/broken into huge sections, which we call plates.

When the energy in the core builds up enough, something must give, and that results in a volcano eruption or an earthquake as the rock plates adjust to relieve the internal pressure. Imagine the force needed to make this happen.

The hydrofrackers’ plan is to break up the rock shell under Pennsylvania and New York to extract more gas faster. The rock crust below us will be turned into a two-state, giant weak spot in the rock surface, as it will essentially be an area of shattered (crushed) stone. When the pressure once again builds to be enough to shuffle the giant plates as it did recently in Japan, will this weak spot open up to relieve the pressure? Will we become the newest volcano on the planet? What do you call safe?

BART GOULD
Waterloo
Is that your opinion kyle?
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 01:09 PM

[quote=Harleybob5]
Quote:
Is that your opinion Kyle?
Ya, when I expressed the opinion earlier that hydrofracking could cause earthquakes wiseguy1,2,3 etc/brainman did a LMAO. Now other people are people are coming to the same opinion.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 01:20 PM

Quote:
When the energy in the core builds up enough, something must give, and that results in a volcano eruption or an earthquake as the rock plates adjust to relieve the internal pressure.


Earthquakes have nothing to do with internal pressure. They are due to the interaction of the plates themselves.

Quote:
When the pressure once again builds to be enough to shuffle the giant plates as it did recently in Japan, will this weak spot open up to relieve the pressure?


No. LOL, I wonder if this guy spends a lot of time hiding under his bed, trembling at the thought of imaginary disasters happening.
Posted by: looseleaf

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 01:21 PM

The Gould letter is joke, right? I mean it is funny. I guess the sarcasm slipped by those crack editors at the FLT. You are one funny guy, Bart. Give us more...funny science.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 01:31 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
When the energy in the core builds up enough, something must give, and that results in a volcano eruption or an earthquake as the rock plates adjust to relieve the internal pressure.
Earthquakes have nothing to do with internal pressure. They are due to the interaction of the plates themselves.
Maybe the interaction of the plates is caused by internal pressure against them?
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 02:24 PM

No. Guess again. Nothing here about pressure, only convection and flow:

"Regarding the driving mechanism of the plates, various models co-exist: tectonic plates are able to move because the Earth's lithosphere has a higher strength and lower density than the underlying asthenosphere. Lateral density variations in the mantle result in convection. Their movement is thought to be driven by a combination of the motion of seafloor away from the spreading ridge (due to variations in topography and density of the crust that result in differences in gravitational forces) and drag, downward suction, at the subduction zones. A different explanation lies in different forces generated by the rotation of the globe and tidal forces of the Sun and the Moon. The relative importance of each of these factors is unclear, and is still subject to debate (see also below)."
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
When the energy in the core builds up enough, something must give, and that results in a volcano eruption or an earthquake as the rock plates adjust to relieve the internal pressure.
Earthquakes have nothing to do with internal pressure. They are due to the interaction of the plates themselves.
Maybe the interaction of the plates is caused by internal pressure against them?



Oh boy another DA theory!
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 03:25 PM

LOL!

Stan' BACK, chillun'...she's agonna BLOW!!!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
A different explanation lies in different forces generated by the rotation of the globe and tidal forces of the Sun and the Moon. The relative importance of each of these factors is unclear, and is still subject to debate (see also below)."
Ah sounds like nobody knows for sure.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
A different explanation lies in different forces generated by the rotation of the globe and tidal forces of the Sun and the Moon. The relative importance of each of these factors is unclear, and is still subject to debate (see also below)."
Ah sounds like nobody knows for sure.




We all know how reliable your theories are!
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
I wouldn't be so sure it will take even 5 yrs, brainman:

"World prices have fallen as much as two-thirds in the last three years — including a drop of 10 percent during last year’s fourth quarter alone."


prices are falling quickily on solar panels I just bought 12 kw of evergreen solar panels made in germany for 1.35 per watt my payback with a 10 kw inverter and panel istalation which I will do most of myself will be relitivily quick like 2-3 years . But thats with very expensive power charges of 45 cents per kw on the island . So It can be done and there is enough sun in NY to do a good job , but payback would be more in the 7 to 10 year mark . I think we are never going to see lower electrical or oil prices so I can only go up. anyone doing solar or wind now may just be a winner 10 years from now . solar and wind systems have dropped by a huge amount in the last few years to about 3 to 5 dollars per watt from 10 to 12 dollars per watt just like Smith said
Posted by: looseleaf

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 06:41 PM

That's good Pixie. Let the markets rule. Natural gas should have to compete on an even footing... So, unleash the energy subsidies for natural gas as well as green energies. The people will decide what's right, what's efficient and what's safe.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 06:51 PM

Quote:
The relative importance of each of these factors is unclear, and is still subject to debate (see also below)."


That's right, in that they don't know the relative importance of the named factors. That is presently being debated. The one thing we know for sure is that "pressure" isn't one of the named factors, and that it isn't even being considered, because that would be a silly guess.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/29/11 07:38 PM

Here's an undated table from wiki of relative electricity generation costs:

Energy source↓ Costs of electricity production in euros per megawatt hour↓
Nuclear Energy 107.0 – 124.0
Brown Coal 88.0 – 97.0
Black Coal 104.0 – 107.0
Domestic Gas 106.0 – 118.0
Wind Energy Onshore 49.7 – 96.1
Wind Energy Offshore 35.0 – 150.0
Hydropower 34.7 – 126.7
Biomass 77.1 – 115.5
Solar Electricity 284.3 – 391.4

Solar "works" right now, but it will be relatively more economically feasable when costs drop more, which they're doing.

There is enough sun in NY to make solar work, but it will always be true that it will be relatively cheaper in places where there's more intense sun, due to a higher solar altitude...less panel area is needed
Coal and gas are still considerably cheaper here. It is a closer comparison, and might even reverse, in a tropical location where they might have to ship the coal and gas in.

My reference to a continental climate had to do with temperature, not sun. Some places, with a maritime climate, are moderated by the ocean. Continental climate locals aren't.

FI, N Lat 45 hits Ottawa, bisects the Bay of Biscay and Southern France, and goes near Trieste, which Nat Geographic called the Land that Winter Forgot. It goes through the Black Sea, which has palm trees on its shores, and the Crimea, which grows oranges, bisects the Aral sea, which is pretty cold, goes through northern Hokkaido, and hits Portland, Ore...all widely varying temps at the same latitude.

I don't know what temps Hokkaido has. Although it's surrounded by water, it's close to and SE of the Siberian prevailing Westerlies, but Portland has much milder winter temps than Ottawa.

How much solar energy comes in is important, but so is the inside/outside temp differential that has to be dealt with. and not just in choosing the energy source; furnace fans, FI, take quite a bit of juice.

I liked Cotacachi Ecuador. 75 in the day, and 53 in the early morning hours. Sleep with a sheet and one blanket. Air and heat not needed, nor insulation. The thermal mass of the masonry construction moderated the temp swing; just shut the windows at sunset.

18 mi from the equator, and 7800 ft...most intense sunlight I've seen. I burned once before I got a hat and a tan, whereas I never burned in Panama. I didn't see any panels, but it's an ideal location for them. They should sell their abundant gas and go solar electric...I think they're about to. I did see some solar water heaters though.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/30/11 07:32 AM

Originally Posted By: looseleaf
That's good Pixie. Let the markets rule. Natural gas should have to compete on an even footing... So, unleash the energy subsidies for natural gas as well as green energies. The people will decide what's right, what's efficient and what's safe.


I agree why do we subsidies nat gas or oil companies , same with ethanol we pay billions to them. My solar syatem has no subsidies or tax relief and I will still get a good return on my investemnt.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/30/11 08:01 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: looseleaf
That's good Pixie. Let the markets rule. Natural gas should have to compete on an even footing... So, unleash the energy subsidies for natural gas as well as green energies. The people will decide what's right, what's efficient and what's safe.


I agree why do we subsidies nat gas or oil companies , same with ethanol we pay billions to them. My solar syatem has no subsidies or tax relief and I will still get a good return on my investemnt.
You don't have a solar system other than a few lawn lights! Stop trying to BS everyone with your crazy stories of being green.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/30/11 03:23 PM

if i showed you the bill would you be a good little boy and go away
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/30/11 03:48 PM

her is the invoice for the solar cells I also have a 10kw inverter on order at 14,000

Sales Order

511 NE 15th Street Phone: (xxx) 536-991x Miami, FL 33132 Fax: (3xx) 371-235x

Date
7/25/2011
S.O. No. deleted
Name / Address deleted

Ship To deleted

P.O. No. Rep Payment Method Ship Via Ship Date FOB
OK Wire Transfer Pick Up 7/25/2011 Bahamas
Item Description Ordered Price Each Amount
SUN-A-210-FA3 210 Watt Solar Panel - BLACK FRAME 56 283.50 15,876.00
Subtotal $15,876.00
Sales Tax (7.0%) $0.00
Total $15,876.00
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/30/11 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: looseleaf
That's good Pixie. Let the markets rule. Natural gas should have to compete on an even footing... So, unleash the energy subsidies for natural gas as well as green energies. The people will decide what's right, what's efficient and what's safe.


I agree why do we subsidies nat gas or oil companies , same with ethanol we pay billions to them. My solar syatem has no subsidies or tax relief and I will still get a good return on my investemnt.




You're only getting a good return because electric is so expensive in the Bahamas. In the USA even with rebates and tax credits solar is not economicly feasible right now. In three or four years it may be but it should have to stand on its own and not be subsidized either.
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/31/11 07:21 AM

there ae many types of solar and most will be a resonable payback, if you do some of the work your self . the cheapest best pay back is passive solar and even active air panels these are simple glass or plastic over black walls and roof with a air chamber between. hot water solar set up can payback in 7 to 8 years. electric with substies in ny for a grid tie system is 8-10 years if your carefull with instalation costs. but we must realize in the next few years electrical , oil , gas and other energys costs will only go up. and solar, wind technologys will go down in price . for the world to exist in the future we need to stop burning fuels, coal, oil and natural gas to make enegry, the heat, co2 exhaust and polution will do us in .
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/31/11 09:35 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
if i showed you the bill would you be a good little boy and go away
Ahahahahaha... right!
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/31/11 09:42 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
there ae many types of solar and most will be a resonable payback, if you do some of the work your self . the cheapest best pay back is passive solar and even active air panels these are simple glass or plastic over black walls and roof with a air chamber between. hot water solar set up can payback in 7 to 8 years. electric with substies in ny for a grid tie system is 8-10 years if your carefull with instalation costs. but we must realize in the next few years electrical , oil , gas and other energys costs will only go up. and solar, wind technologys will go down in price . for the world to exist in the future we need to stop burning fuels, coal, oil and natural gas to make enegry, the heat, co2 exhaust and polution will do us in .
All you do pixie is cut and paste google fantasy facts. You don't have a clue about solar energy, you're a phony!
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/31/11 04:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
there ae many types of solar and most will be a resonable payback, if you do some of the work your self . the cheapest best pay back is passive solar and even active air panels these are simple glass or plastic over black walls and roof with a air chamber between. hot water solar set up can payback in 7 to 8 years. electric with substies in ny for a grid tie system is 8-10 years if your carefull with instalation costs. but we must realize in the next few years electrical , oil , gas and other energys costs will only go up. and solar, wind technologys will go down in price . for the world to exist in the future we need to stop burning fuels, coal, oil and natural gas to make enegry, the heat, co2 exhaust and polution will do us in .
All you do pixie is cut and paste google fantasy facts. You don't have a clue about solar energy, you're a phony!


so them why dont you enlighten us on how a solar grid feed system works and how the inverter is connected to prevent island resionant feedback . did not think you knew
your just mouthing off like normal/
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/31/11 05:32 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
there ae many types of solar and most will be a resonable payback, if you do some of the work your self . the cheapest best pay back is passive solar and even active air panels these are simple glass or plastic over black walls and roof with a air chamber between. hot water solar set up can payback in 7 to 8 years. electric with substies in ny for a grid tie system is 8-10 years if your carefull with instalation costs. but we must realize in the next few years electrical , oil , gas and other energys costs will only go up. and solar, wind technologys will go down in price . for the world to exist in the future we need to stop burning fuels, coal, oil and natural gas to make enegry, the heat, co2 exhaust and polution will do us in .
All you do pixie is cut and paste google fantasy facts. You don't have a clue about solar energy, you're a phony!


so them why dont you enlighten us on how a solar grid feed system works and how the inverter is connected to prevent island resionant feedback . did not think you knew
your just mouthing off like normal/
what ever you say crazy man!
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/31/11 08:02 PM

you call me crazy yet you come on here make stupid stupid one liner comments and act like a kid . your only here cause you get your jollies insulting people on line becasue you dont have the guts to say to there face grow up .
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 07/31/11 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
you call me crazy yet you come on here make stupid stupid one liner comments and act like a kid . your only here cause you get your jollies insulting people on line becasue you dont have the guts to say to there face grow up .
You aren't calling me out are you?
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/01/11 07:55 PM

if you dont like getting insults then dont give them out.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/01/11 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
if you dont like getting insults then dont give them out.
Ahahahahahaha
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/01/11 10:32 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
there ae many types of solar and most will be a resonable payback, if you do some of the work your self . the cheapest best pay back is passive solar and even active air panels these are simple glass or plastic over black walls and roof with a air chamber between. hot water solar set up can payback in 7 to 8 years. electric with substies in ny for a grid tie system is 8-10 years if your carefull with instalation costs. but we must realize in the next few years electrical , oil , gas and other energys costs will only go up. and solar, wind technologys will go down in price . for the world to exist in the future we need to stop burning fuels, coal, oil and natural gas to make enegry, the heat, co2 exhaust and polution will do us in .




Without subsidies you're talking over a ten year payback right now which isn't very good. Ask anybody invoved in finance if a capital investment with over a ten year payback is good and they will laugh in your face.
Posted by: looseleaf

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/02/11 09:10 AM

From the WSJ:

"YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio—On the edge of the Mahoning River, where once stood dozens of blast furnaces, more than 400 workers are constructing what long has been considered unthinkable: a new $650 million steel plant.

When complete, it will stand 10 stories tall, occupy one million square feet and make a half million tons of seamless steel tubes used in "fracking" or drilling for natural gas in shale basins."
Posted by: pixie

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/02/11 03:55 PM

belive it or not some people actualy care about the earth we live on and would still put up solar or reduce energy use just to feel good , and heck if its a 10 year payback all the better .
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/02/11 09:01 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
belive it or not some people actualy care about the earth we live on and would still put up solar or reduce energy use just to feel good , and heck if its a 10 year payback all the better .



If you can afford it good for you. But don't try and tell us people that can't afford it that its economicly feasible when its not.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/07/11 05:53 AM

To the Editor:

Congratulations to our superb Supervisor Daryl Jones and the Town of Jerusalem Hydrofracking Impact Study Committee for presenting a most informative forum called “Natural Gas Drilling — Issues and Impact: A Balanced Discussion” recently at Keuka College. The large attendance reflected the keen interest in the topic of natural gas drilling in our town and region.

My wife and I have been taxpayers in Jerusalem since 1977, and we have observed a variety of challenges to the environment and beauty of this special part of our world. The gypsy moth and zebra mussel problems pale in comparison to the industrialization and destructiveness that hydrofrack drilling will involve.

We are at a crossroads. We look forward to the Town Board’s ongoing and immediate action in protecting the health, welfare and safety of our residents and visitors rather than caving in to those who would sacrifice their lands and lifestyles to corporate and individual greed. Air and water contamination, scientifically validated by the forum panel to be the direct result of drilling, is not an acceptable trade-off for whatever temporary benefits may accrue to our town.

Greed as it impacts on the water we drink, the tranquility of our way of life and the quality of the air we breathe is not to be tolerated by our residents and those whom we have chosen to represent us on the various boards of decision makers in Jerusalem.

Industry representative Dr. Scott Cline’s remarks were most telling. When asked what impact the 24/7 drilling noise would have on life in Jerusalem, his response was essentially — “Well you’ll only have to put up with it for three years.”

Earlier in the evening he indicated that there will be major changes as a result of gas mining and hydrofrack drilling if it were to come to our area. His prediction that the industry has no interest in this region is countered by fact — on the very day of the forum, landowners were approached by energy company Chesapeake to sell their land for drilling purposes. The sky is falling, Dr. Cline, but only if we let it.

We join with the growing legion of people who stand tall and say that a complete ban of hydrofrack drilling in the Keuka Lake watershed is the only responsible and acceptable choice that can be made. Jerusalem’s leadership in making this possible is expected, supported by our involvement and is deeply appreciated.

PEGGY and JOSEPH HOFF
Keuka Park
(Hoff is a member of the Committee to Preserve The
Finger Lakes)
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/07/11 07:26 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
To the Editor:

Congratulations to our superb Supervisor Daryl Jones and the Town of Jerusalem Hydrofracking Impact Study Committee for presenting a most informative forum called “Natural Gas Drilling — Issues and Impact: A Balanced Discussion” recently at Keuka College. The large attendance reflected the keen interest in the topic of natural gas drilling in our town and region.

My wife and I have been taxpayers in Jerusalem since 1977, and we have observed a variety of challenges to the environment and beauty of this special part of our world. The gypsy moth and zebra mussel problems pale in comparison to the industrialization and destructiveness that hydrofrack drilling will involve.

We are at a crossroads. We look forward to the Town Board’s ongoing and immediate action in protecting the health, welfare and safety of our residents and visitors rather than caving in to those who would sacrifice their lands and lifestyles to corporate and individual greed. Air and water contamination, scientifically validated by the forum panel to be the direct result of drilling, is not an acceptable trade-off for whatever temporary benefits may accrue to our town.

Greed as it impacts on the water we drink, the tranquility of our way of life and the quality of the air we breathe is not to be tolerated by our residents and those whom we have chosen to represent us on the various boards of decision makers in Jerusalem.

Industry representative Dr. Scott Cline’s remarks were most telling. When asked what impact the 24/7 drilling noise would have on life in Jerusalem, his response was essentially — “Well you’ll only have to put up with it for three years.”

Earlier in the evening he indicated that there will be major changes as a result of gas mining and hydrofrack drilling if it were to come to our area. His prediction that the industry has no interest in this region is countered by fact — on the very day of the forum, landowners were approached by energy company Chesapeake to sell their land for drilling purposes. The sky is falling, Dr. Cline, but only if we let it.

We join with the growing legion of people who stand tall and say that a complete ban of hydrofrack drilling in the Keuka Lake watershed is the only responsible and acceptable choice that can be made. Jerusalem’s leadership in making this possible is expected, supported by our involvement and is deeply appreciated.

PEGGY and JOSEPH HOFF
Keuka Park
(Hoff is a member of the Committee to Preserve The
Finger Lakes)




They can pass all the bans they want it will never stand up in court. State and Feds supercede anything they pass. They're just grandstanding and being activist idiots like you Kyle.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/07/11 08:46 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
They can pass all the bans they want it will never stand up in court. State and Feds supercede anything they pass. They're just grandstanding and being activist idiots like you Kyle.
If every local town, city, and village government passes a ban against hydrofracking (as seems to be happening), the state will have a lot of angry people if they go against our wishes. I don't know if they want that.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/07/11 07:13 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
They can pass all the bans they want it will never stand up in court. State and Feds supercede anything they pass. They're just grandstanding and being activist idiots like you Kyle.
If every local town, city, and village government passes a ban against hydrofracking (as seems to be happening), the state will have a lot of angry people if they go against our wishes. I don't know if they want that.



As usual you are on the minority side. Polls show 70% of NY are for drilling.
Posted by: twocats

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/07/11 07:24 PM

Says here it's an even split.

http://www.uticaod.com/latestnews/x1797066266/Poll-NYers-evenly-split-on-gas-drilling-rules

Poll: NYers evenly split on gas-drilling rules
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/07/11 07:48 PM

Since the majority of the US and NY population is urban, it might be illuminating to take a poll of those actually residing in areas that will be affected by drilling.

I think that US gas is a better alternative to either coal or, at least with the prevailing technology, nuclear, and that it offers an alternative to imported oil.

I'm in favor of slowing it down and making sure regulation addresses at least some of the problems, such as making sure the waste water is adequately treated.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/07/11 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
They can pass all the bans they want it will never stand up in court. State and Feds supercede anything they pass. They're just grandstanding and being activist idiots like you Kyle.
If every local town, city, and village government passes a ban against hydrofracking (as seems to be happening), the state will have a lot of angry people if they go against our wishes. I don't know if they want that.

As usual you are on the minority side. Polls show 70% of NY are for drilling.
If 70% were in favor of drilling, how do you explain all these local governments passing bans?
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/07/11 08:23 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
They can pass all the bans they want it will never stand up in court. State and Feds supercede anything they pass. They're just grandstanding and being activist idiots like you Kyle.
If every local town, city, and village government passes a ban against hydrofracking (as seems to be happening), the state will have a lot of angry people if they go against our wishes. I don't know if they want that.

As usual you are on the minority side. Polls show 70% of NY are for drilling.
If 70% were in favor of drilling, how do you explain all these local governments passing bans?




Idiot people like you spreading crap that isn't remotely close to the truth. How mant times have I seen you post that the government doesn't speak for the people? Case in point, SM. Now you are saying they do. Funny how you change your tune for different situations.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/08/11 06:58 PM

http://fingerlakesdailynews.com/news/details.cfm?clientid=16&id=4959

8/8/2011 1:12:24 PM

The Geneva Town Board is set to ban hydrofracking and related gas drilling activities. Town Supervisor Mary Luckern says the board will vote on a resolution when they meet tomorrow (Tuesday) night .

Luckern says the board got an earful from hydrofracking opponents during a public hearing last month
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/08/11 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
How mant times have I seen you post that the government doesn't speak for the people? Case in point, SM. Now you are saying they do. Funny how you change your tune for different situations.
I have never said that the government doesn't speak for the people. I am just trying to get more people interested in speaking to their government. You just keep trying to put words in my mouth by saying that I say that my opinion is the majority opinion when I do not say that.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/08/11 07:31 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
How mant times have I seen you post that the government doesn't speak for the people? Case in point, SM. Now you are saying they do. Funny how you change your tune for different situations.
I have never said that the government doesn't speak for the people. I am just trying to get more people interested in speaking to their government. You just keep trying to put words in my mouth by saying that I say that my opinion is the majority opinion when I do not say that.



Would you like for me to prove you a liar? I can go back on the SM thread and show that you said our side has a groundswell of support and the vast majority of the town is on our side.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/08/11 07:50 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
How mant times have I seen you post that the government doesn't speak for the people? Case in point, SM. Now you are saying they do. Funny how you change your tune for different situations.
I have never said that the government doesn't speak for the people. I am just trying to get more people interested in speaking to their government. You just keep trying to put words in my mouth by saying that I say that my opinion is the majority opinion when I do not say that.
Would you like for me to prove you a liar? I can go back on the SM thread and show that you said our side has a groundswell of support and the vast majority of the town is on our side.
A ground swell of support? Maybe. I said the vast majority of the town is on our side? I would like to see that.
Posted by: MeRightYouWrong

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/08/11 07:53 PM

Everybody knows a ground swell is less than a vast majority. By a little bit, at least.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/08/11 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: MeRightYouWrong
Everybody knows a ground swell is less than a vast majority. By a little bit, at least.


Not everyone. A groundswell is a rapid spontaneous growth (as of political support)M-W. It has nothing directly to do with the amount of the support, but with the speed of its growth.
Posted by: MeRightYouWrong

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/08/11 09:23 PM

Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/09/11 11:11 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
I can go back on the SM thread and show that you said our side has a groundswell of support and the vast majority of the town is on our side.
To the Editor:

A recent meeting at Lightner Library on the Keuka College campus was yet another discussion of the hydrofracking issue. It is curious to point out that of 178 responds to a town of Jerusalem survey, 172 wanted absolutely no hydrofracking. One would think that these are convincing numbers and show the public’s interest in not having hydrofracking in our area.

I have noted another “curiosity” and that is at not one meeting did I see any representative of any elected official such as the assemblyman, the state senator, the U.S. senators. Clue for Representatives Schumer, Gillibrand, O’Mara, Palmesano, Kolb, Nozzolio: there is a reason you are called, in general, “representatives.”

To explain this further to you, this means that you represent the people who pay the taxes in the locale you serve. You do not represent anyone else. So why don’t you or a member of your staff (unless of course they are busy writing up your memoirs or lining up campaign contributors) at least show up at one of the meetings? Tell us what your stand is. Let us know how many lobbyists from the hydrofracking services have called upon you.

Well, you get the picture or at least the citizens do. Least I forget, Mr. Fallon, a concerned citizen, wrote a letter to the editor (Times, July 28) asking the whereabouts of the DEC and the EPA when there are problems. Well, they are busy investigating 80-year-old farmer Harold T. Haybinder’s possible improper use of his wood stove. Rumor has it that smoke came out of the chimney. Well, with a reduced workforce (or soon to be reduced when hydrofracking is here to stay) what can you expect from these diligent “investigators?”

JAMES BOBRESK
Penn Yan
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 10:53 AM

Finger Lakes Times

State Sen. Michael Nozzolio criticized a state report that recommended stronger environmental rules around Skaneateles
Lake and New York City, but not the other Finger Lakes.

Nozzolio, R-54 of Fayette, wrote to Department of Environmental Conservation Commissioner Joe Martens last week, asking
him to reevaluate that recommendation. Nozzolio was responding to the DEC’s recent draft environmental impact statement on natural gas drilling. “Stricter regulations for just two watersheds appears to totally disregard the numerous communities that depend on the rest of the Finger Lakes for clean water,” Nozzolio said in a press release. “It makes no sense why the DEC would single out one Finger Lake for certain environmental protections but not the others.”

In his letter, Nozzolio wrote that regulations considered vital for the safety of one lake should be considered vital for all local bodies of water. The contamination of any lake would have devastating effects on the whole region, he wrote.

“While I applaud the DEC’s recommendation to exempt the region around Skaneateles Lake from the use of [hydraulic fracturing]
mining, it is particularly disturbing and inconsisten tthat the same protections were not extended to all of the lakes within the
Finger Lakes watershed,” he wrote.

Nozzolio planned to read his entire letter at the fourth annual Owasco Lake Day held last weekend in Auburn.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 10:54 AM

By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA— The Town Board approved a local law banning hydrofracking Tuesday. There was little discussion before the vote. The law prohibits the controversial natural gas drilling in all zones contained in the town code.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 10:58 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA— The Town Board approved a local law banning hydrofracking Tuesday. There was little discussion before the vote. The law prohibits the controversial natural gas drilling
in all zones contained in the town code.

So what's that mean? No gas drilling in the town of Geneva.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 11:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: kyle585
By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA— The Town Board approved a local law banning hydrofracking Tuesday. There was little discussion before the vote. The law prohibits the controversial natural gas drilling
in all zones contained in the town code.

So what's that mean? No gas drilling in the town of Geneva.



It doesn't mean anything they are just grandstanding. Only the state and feds can regulate drilling.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: kyle585
By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA— The Town Board approved a local law banning hydrofracking Tuesday. There was little discussion before the vote. The law prohibits the controversial natural gas drilling
in all zones contained in the town code.

So what's that mean? No gas drilling in the town of Geneva.

You mean these politicians are pissing time and money away on something that means nothing?!


It doesn't mean anything they are just grandstanding. Only the state and feds can regulate drilling.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: kyle585
By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA— The Town Board approved a local law banning hydrofracking Tuesday. There was little discussion before the vote. The law prohibits the controversial natural gas drilling
in all zones contained in the town code.

So what's that mean? No gas drilling in the town of Gene
It doesn't mean anything they are just grandstanding. Only the state and feds can regulate drilling.
Senator Nozzolio is part of the state, right?
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 12:33 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: kyle585
By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA— The Town Board approved a local law banning hydrofracking Tuesday. There was little discussion before the vote. The law prohibits the controversial natural gas drilling
in all zones contained in the town code.

So what's that mean? No gas drilling in the town of Gene
It doesn't mean anything they are just grandstanding. Only the state and feds can regulate drilling.
Senator Nozzolio is part of the state, right?



It's the DEC dumbo whose rules and regulations are overseen by the EPA.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 12:35 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: kyle585
By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA— The Town Board approved a local law banning hydrofracking Tuesday. There was little discussion before the vote. The law prohibits the controversial natural gas drilling
in all zones contained in the town code.

So what's that mean? No gas drilling in the town of Gene
It doesn't mean anything they are just grandstanding. Only the state and feds can regulate drilling.
Senator Nozzolio is part of the state, right?


Nozzolio's is just another Idiot politician who likes to have his mug in a picture. The only thing that fool(Nozzolio) cares about is getting reelected and you're just another schmuck who believes his crap .
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 12:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: kyle585
By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

GENEVA— The Town Board approved a local law banning hydrofracking Tuesday. There was little discussion before the vote. The law prohibits the controversial natural gas drilling
in all zones contained in the town code.

So what's that mean? No gas drilling in the town of Geneva.




You mean these politicians are pissing time and money away on something that means nothing?!


It doesn't mean anything they are just grandstanding. Only the state and feds can regulate drilling.




Exactly. The only things that local government can regulate is things such as road use. For instance if drillers tear up a road they have to fix it which they already do anyway.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: kyle585
GENEVA— The Town Board approved a local law banning hydrofracking Tuesday.
So what's that mean? No gas drilling in the town of Gene
It doesn't mean anything they are just grandstanding. Only the state and feds can regulate drilling.
Senator Nozzolio is part of the state, right?
It's the DEC dumbo whose rules and regulations are overseen by the EPA.
You think a state senator doesn't have any influence over the state DEC? LOL
Posted by: twocats

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 04:46 PM

Usually senators rely on info from the DEC.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By: twocats
Usually senators rely on info from the DEC.
Maybe in this case Nozzolio is pointing out what he sees as a big mistake by the DEC.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: twocats
Usually senators rely on info from the DEC.
Maybe in this case Nozzolio is pointing out what he sees as a big mistake by the DEC.
Nozzolio is the big mistake!
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: kyle585
GENEVA— The Town Board approved a local law banning hydrofracking Tuesday.
So what's that mean? No gas drilling in the town of Gene
It doesn't mean anything they are just grandstanding. Only the state and feds can regulate drilling.
Senator Nozzolio is part of the state, right?
It's the DEC dumbo whose rules and regulations are overseen by the EPA.
You think a state senator doesn't have any influence over the state DEC? LOL



Very little. Typical Nozzolio anything to get his name in the news.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Very little. Typical Nozzolio anything to get his name in the news.
ah especially when you don't like what he has to say.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 07:33 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Very little. Typical Nozzolio anything to get his name in the news.
ah especially when you don't like what he has to say.



How do you know I don't like what he has to say?
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 07:38 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Very little. Typical Nozzolio anything to get his name in the news.
ah especially when you don't like what he has to say.
How do you know I don't like what he has to say?
You agree with this?

.....Nozzolio was responding to the DEC’s recent draft environmental impact statement on natural gas drilling. “Stricter regulations for just two watersheds appears to totally disregard the numerous communities that depend on the rest of the Finger Lakes for clean water,” Nozzolio said in a press release. “It makes no sense why the DEC would single out one Finger Lake for certain environmental protections but not the others.”

In his letter, Nozzolio wrote that regulations considered vital for the safety of one lake should be considered vital for all local bodies of water. The contamination of any lake would have devastating effects on the whole region, he wrote.

“While I applaud the DEC’s recommendation to exempt the region around Skaneateles Lake from the use of [hydraulic fracturing] mining, it is particularly disturbing and inconsistent that the same protections were not extended to all of the lakes within the Finger Lakes watershed,” he wrote.
Posted by: twocats

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 07:40 PM

Skaneateles people have money. They pay for extra protection. That's how it works in this country.
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 07:42 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Very little. Typical Nozzolio anything to get his name in the news.
ah especially when you don't like what he has to say.
How do you know I don't like what he has to say?
You agree with this?

.....Nozzolio was responding to the DEC’s recent draft environmental impact statement on natural gas drilling. “Stricter regulations for just two watersheds appears to totally disregard the numerous communities that depend on the rest of the Finger Lakes for clean water,” Nozzolio said in a press release. “It makes no sense why the DEC would single out one Finger Lake for certain environmental protections but not the others.”

In his letter, Nozzolio wrote that regulations considered vital for the safety of one lake should be considered vital for all local bodies of water. The contamination of any lake would have devastating effects on the whole region, he wrote.

“While I applaud the DEC’s recommendation to exempt the region around Skaneateles Lake from the use of [hydraulic fracturing] mining, it is particularly disturbing and inconsistent that the same protections were not extended to all of the lakes within the Finger Lakes watershed,” he wrote.



I've said before I have no problem with rules and regulatoions. It's these stupid moratoriums and bans that I have a problem with.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 07:42 PM

Originally Posted By: twocats
Skaneateles people have money. They pay for extra protection. That's how it works in this country.
unfortunately yes but Nozzolio is saying we all need that protection.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 07:43 PM

True, but I do agree with Sen. Nozz.
Posted by: twocats

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 07:44 PM

Oh, I agree too, but I don't put too much faith in equal protection under the law.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 07:46 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Very little. Typical Nozzolio anything to get his name in the news.
ah especially when you don't like what he has to say.
How do you know I don't like what he has to say?
You agree with this?.....Nozzolio was responding to the DEC’s recent draft environmental impact statement on natural gas drilling.
I've said before I have no problem with rules and regulations. It's these stupid moratoriums and bans that I have a problem with.
Then why did u make this comment? Typical Nozzolio anything to get his name in the news.

Posted by: VM Smith

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: twocats
Oh, I agree too, but I don't put too much faith in equal protection under the law.


Then we're in complete agreement. Aargh...it's so much work typing with 2 fingers while my cat head butts my hands...
Posted by: brainman

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/10/11 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Very little. Typical Nozzolio anything to get his name in the news.
ah especially when you don't like what he has to say.
How do you know I don't like what he has to say?
You agree with this?.....Nozzolio was responding to the DEC’s recent draft environmental impact statement on natural gas drilling.
I've said before I have no problem with rules and regulations. It's these stupid moratoriums and bans that I have a problem with.
Then why did u make this comment? Typical Nozzolio anything to get his name in the news.




He's comments on anything and everything to get his name and picture in the news whether he has a say in it or not.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/11/11 10:25 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/11/us/11natgas.html

By ROBBIE BROWN and IAN URBINA
Published: August 10, 2011

A federal Department of Energy panel issued recommendations on Thursday for improving the safety and environmental impact of drilling in shale formations for natural gas.

In a report on the drilling technique known as hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, that is used currently in most oil and gas wells, the seven-member Natural Gas Subcommittee called for better tracking and more careful disposal of the waste that comes up from wells, stricter standards on air pollution and greenhouse gases associated with drilling, and the creation of a federal database so the public can better monitor drilling operations.

The report also called for companies to eliminate diesel fuel from their fracking fluid because it includes carcinogenic chemicals, and for companies and regulators to disclose the full list of ingredients used in fracking.

“The public deserves assurance that the full economic, environmental and energy security benefits of shale gas development will be realized without sacrificing public health, environmental protection and safety,” said the report, which was prepared by a subcommittee led by John Deutch, the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and a group of energy experts including Daniel Yergin, chairman of IHS Cambridge Energy Research Associates, and Fred Krupp, president of the Environmental Defense Fund.

Federal officials should finance the development of more efficient and clean drilling techniques, the report said, adding that fees and taxes on industry were a legitimate way to pay for needed changes in oversight.

The report called for the use of a “manifest system” for tracking waste from the wells. Such a system typically requires that each load of waste is tracked as it is transported from handler to handler, from the well to its disposal, to verify that it is not dumped at the side of the road.

Tracking and handling the drilling waste have been especially problematic in Pennsylvania. Drilling is intense in the state, but there is also a shortage of injection wells for disposal of the wells’ contaminated wastewater and sludge. State regulators considered instituting a manifest system in 2009, but opted against it after the industry staunchly opposed the proposal.

Posted by: kyle585

Re: New Recommendations Issued in Hydraulic Fracturing - 08/11/11 11:04 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
It's the DEC dumbo whose rules and regulations are overseen by the EPA.
Name callng by a brainman. Tsk Tsk.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/11/us/11natgas.html?_r=1

Panel Seeks Stiffer Rules for Drilling of Gas Wells

By ROBBIE BROWN and IAN URBINA
Published: August 10, 2011

A federal Department of Energy panel issued recommendations on Thursday for improving the safety and environmental impact of drilling in shale formations for natural gas.

In a report on the drilling technique known as hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, that is used currently in most oil and gas wells, the seven-member Natural Gas Subcommittee called for better tracking and more careful disposal of the waste that comes up from wells, stricter standards on air pollution and greenhouse gases associated with drilling, and the creation of a federal database so the public can better monitor drilling operations.

Posted by: Economy315585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/11/11 08:34 PM

The Economic Opportunities of Shale Energy Development

By Timothy J. Considine, University of Wyoming, Robert W. Watson,The Pennsylvania State University,
Nicholas B. Considine, Natural Resources Economics

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY



EMAIL THIS | PRINTER FRIENDLY

DOWNLOAD PDF
PRESS RELEASE >>

OP-EDS
Editorial: A Tale of Two Shale States, Wall Street Journal, 07-26-11
Shale and its Discontents Robert Bryce, National Review Online, 07-15-11
Exposing the Demonizers of Shale Gas, Diana Furchtgott-Roth, RealClearMarkets.com, 6-30-11
Hydrofracturing Can Fix State Budgets, RealClearMarkets.com, 6-9-11
America Needs the Shale Gas Revolution, Robert Bryce, Wall Street Journal, 6-13-11
IN THE NEWS
W.Va. Should Welcome Marcellus Shale Action, Charleston Daily Mail, 07-27-11
New Split in 'Fracking' Fight, Wall Street Journal, 7-1-11
NY Gov Cuomo Looks to Natgas Drilling For Jobs, Reuters, 7-1-11
New York set to lift fracking ban, CNN Money, 7-1-11
Industry Reaction Mixed Over New York Fracking Plan, NGI Daily, 7-1-11
Natural gas is best fuel for our future, Ithaca Journal, 6-29-11
New Split in 'Fracking' Fight, Wall Street Journal, 7-1-11
Marcellus Benefits Far Outweigh Concerns, Says Report, Natural Gas Intelligence, 06-13-11
Some Good Frackin' Reading, NRO's Planet Gore, 6-9-11
Finding In Favor Of Shale Gas, AOL Energy, 6-8-11
Marcellus Benefits Far Outweigh Environmental Concerns, Says Report, InvestorVillage.com, 6-8-11
Continue Moratorium On 'Fracking', Journal News Lohud, 6-8-11
Study: Fracking Ban a 'Needless Burden' on N.Y. Economy, Energy Tomorrow, 6-8-11
New York Will See $11.4 Billion in New Investment, $1.4 Billion in New Tax Revenue, and 18K New Jobs if the Fracking Moratorium is Lifted, MarcellusDrillingNews.com, 6-8-11
Report: Lifting Fracking Ban Would Create Economic Windfall In NY, Free Republic.com, 6-8-11
Lift Of Fracking Ban Would Generate $11.4B For N.Y. by 2020, Press & Sun Bulletin, 6-8-11
Report Says Fracking May Earn Billions, Poughkeepsie Journal, 6-8-11
Lifting Fracking Ban Would Create Economic Windfall In NY, Rochester Democrat & Chronicle, 6-8-11
Lifting Fracking Ban Would Create Economic Windfall In NY, Albany Times Union, 6-7-11
Lifting Fracking Ban Would Create Economic Windfall In NY, The Delta Report, 6-7-11
Lifting Fracking Ban Would Create Economic Windfall In NY, Journal News, 6-7-11
Daily Energy Update, Bloomberg energyNOW.com, 6-7-11
Linked, DallagMorningNews.com, 6-7-11
Linked, RealClearEnergy, 6-7-11
Fracking Ban Costs New York Billions In Lost Economic Output, Tax Revenue, Hart Energy E&P, 6-7-11
New York Ecology Would Suffer Little From Marcellus Drilling, Platts, 6-7-11

TABLE OF CONTENTS:
Executive Summary
About the Authors
Introduction
The Emergence of Shale Energy
Producing Energy from Shale Formations
The Economic Ripple Effects of Shale Drilling
Environmental Impacts and Risks
Environmental Violations in the Pennsylvania Marcellus
Environmental-Impact Analysis of Gas Drilling
Valuation of Environmental Impacts
Comparing Benefits and Costs
Industry Practice and Regulatory Policy Issues
Implications for New York State
Summary and Conclusions
References
Endnotes
Directional drilling and hydraulic fracturing have unlocked vast new reserves of natural gas in the United States. Development of these resources is now well under way in Pennsylvania and West Virginia. Unlike their neighbors to the south, however, New York residents are not directly benefiting from natural gas development as the result of a government-imposed moratorium, itself a response to environmental concerns surrounding hydraulic fracturing. This study analyzes the economic and environmental impacts of shale gas drilling in New York and finds the net economic benefits to be significantly positive. Specifically:

An end to the moratorium would spur over $11.4 billion in economic output.
Some 15,000 to 18,000 jobs could be created in the Southern Tier and Western New York, regions which lost a combined 48,000 payroll jobs between 2000 and 2010.*
Another 75,000 to 90,000 jobs could be created if the area of exploration and drilling were expanded to include the Utica shale and southeastern New York, including the New York City watershed. (This assumes a regulatory regime that protects the water supply but permits drilling to continue.)
Localities and the state stand to reap $1.4 billion in tax revenues if the moratorium is allowed to expire.
This study also reviews the public records of environmental violations reported by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection over the period 2008–10. It then quantifies the impact of these violations on land, water, and air resources. The costs of these environmental impacts are then estimated on the basis of the value of the environmental amenities at stake. Our main finding is that the cost of these environmental impacts is far smaller than the economic benefits that drilling can provide.

The typical Marcellus shale gas well generates about $4 million in economic benefits.
The economic damage resulting from the environmental impacts of a typical shale gas well comes to $14,000.
The expected environmental costs are so low because the probability of an environmental event is small, and those that do occur are minor and localized in their effects.

Those environmental problems that have arisen in connection with hydraulic fracturing in no way call into question the soundness of that procedure. In reality, they result from improper drilling and well-casing technique and defective formulation of cement. Such errors and flaws allow wells to penetrate shallow gas deposits, permitting the gas within them to escape and enter groundwater supplies. Marcellus gas resides far below these deposits and any aquifers. More stringent design standards should be adopted, and more active regulatory oversight should be exercised. These steps would reduce the incidence of such problems.

Our findings suggest that the current shale gas drilling moratorium imposes a significant and needless burden on the New York State economy. In short, the economic benefits of developing shale gas resources in New York State are enormous and could be growing, while the environmental costs of doing so are small and could be diminishing if the moratorium is lifted and if proper policies are put into place.

*Based on third quarter data from the Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages, maintained by the New York State Department of Labor. Posted at http://www.labor.ny.gov/stats/lsqcew.shtm.

Great study. Also the top three cities in the united states as of this past Tuesday are all located within Ohio, where hydrofracking is being permitted.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/12/11 11:10 AM

From Fl Times editorial page:

by MICHAEL J. FITZGERALD

On the national level, our political leaders continue to club each other daily about the federal budget deficit. But if you are a believer in polls — and I am, generally — the American people are considerably more worried about having jobs and about being sure that the food they eat and the water they drink are safe.

I am more worried about that, too. Last week, headlines screamed about a massive recall of turkey products linked to a salmonella outbreak. The federal Centers for Disease Control spent months backtracking the source from people sick with salmonella to the Cargill Corp.’s turkey processing plant in Arkansas. The issue it raises — again — is that American factory farms overuse antibiotics in livestock to ensure they don’t fall ill, a practice discontinued in Europe five years ago. Five years ago.
European governments made the decision based on scientific warnings that salmonella and other diseases are quickly growing resistant to antibiotics, the same antibiotics humans take when they fall ill to diseases such as salmonella.

But the U.S. Congress has routinely failed to pass similar protective measures, succumbing to pressure from agribusiness lobbyists. More antibiotics pumped into livestock means more profits for food corporations — never mind that a new strain of salmonella has been discovered resistant to the antibiotic Cipro, one of most powerful weapons in the medical arsenal. But at least in the case of Cipro and overuse of antibiotics in livestock, we can see what’s going on and — if we can get the
attention of members of Congress (when is the next general election, Senator?) — perhaps get legislation to protect our food.

When it comes to water, we have a different problem, linked to the process known as hydrofracking for natural gas. The public doesn’t know how many and what type of chemicals are being added to the millions of gallons of water corporations are forcing deep into the ground to break the natural gas free. Even government regulators don’t know. A cursory review of what the companies have admitted to using — benzene, toluene, xylene and ethylbenzene — isn’t very reassuring. Benzene alone is a known cancercausing agent. And the names and details of the 2,500 other products used in hydrofracking are often claimed to be a company secret, like a recipe, which thanks to a 2005 federal law exempts them from having to reveal the details.

In neighboring Pennsylvania, the evidence is surfacing, quite literally, that these chemicals are fouling ground water and polluting streams. We should add water purity to food safety as an issue to bring up as elections grow near and politicians get focused — on getting reelected.


But what about the federal budget deficit, out-of-control federal spending, the debt ceiling and the downgrade in the nation’s credit rating?

Yes, they are part of the economic-political landscape. And, yes, they do provide plenty of anxiety-inducing moments for citizens, as well as ample news fodder for media. (OK, and newspaper columnists, too.) And yes, they are issues to be dealt with. However, we should not let them be the only thing on the table for discussion this election. The kind of mindless talk now under way about the federal budget deficit and the downgrade in the nation’s credit rating is almost surely to result in less government, less regulation, less oversight which will translate into even greater threats to the food chain and our water supplies, all at precisely the moment when we need it. Is that something we can afford? We don’t need a poll to answer that question.

Fitzgerald worked for six newspapers in California as a writer and editor as well as a correspondent for several news services,
including Reuters. He lives in Valois and Watkins Glen with his wife. They are owner/operators of a video and publishing
enterprise called *subject2change Media. His “Write On” appears each Friday. He can be contacted at michael.fitzgeraldfltcolumnist@gmail.com.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/12/11 11:40 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
From Fl Times editorial page:

by MICHAEL J. FITZGERALD

On the national level, our political leaders continue to club each other daily about the federal budget deficit. But if you are a believer in polls — and I am, generally — the American people are considerably more worried about having jobs and about being sure that the food they eat and the water they drink are safe.




I am more worried about that, too. Last week, headlines screamed about a massive recall of turkey products linked to a salmonella outbreak. The federal Centers for Disease Control spent months backtracking the source from people sick with salmonella to the Cargill Corp.’s turkey processing plant in Arkansas. The issue it raises — again — is that American factory farms overuse antibiotics in livestock to ensure they don’t fall ill, a practice discontinued in Europe five years ago. Five years ago.
European governments made the decision based on scientific warnings that salmonella and other diseases are quickly growing resistant to antibiotics, the same antibiotics humans take when they fall ill to diseases such as salmonella.

But the U.S. Congress has routinely failed to pass similar protective measures, succumbing to pressure from agribusiness lobbyists. More antibiotics pumped into livestock means more profits for food corporations — never mind that a new strain of salmonella has been discovered resistant to the antibiotic Cipro, one of most powerful weapons in the medical arsenal. But at least in the case of Cipro and overuse of antibiotics in livestock, we can see what’s going on and — if we can get the
attention of members of Congress (when is the next general election, Senator?) — perhaps get legislation to protect our food.

When it comes to water, we have a different problem, linked to the process known as hydrofracking for natural gas. The public doesn’t know how many and what type of chemicals are being added to the millions of gallons of water corporations are forcing deep into the ground to break the natural gas free. Even government regulators don’t know. A cursory review of what the companies have admitted to using — benzene, toluene, xylene and ethylbenzene — isn’t very reassuring. Benzene alone is a known cancercausing agent. And the names and details of the 2,500 other products used in hydrofracking are often claimed to be a company secret, like a recipe, which thanks to a 2005 federal law exempts them from having to reveal the details.

In neighboring Pennsylvania, the evidence is surfacing, quite literally, that these chemicals are fouling ground water and polluting streams. We should add water purity to food safety as an issue to bring up as elections grow near and politicians get focused — on getting reelected.


But what about the federal budget deficit, out-of-control federal spending, the debt ceiling and the downgrade in the nation’s credit rating?

Yes, they are part of the economic-political landscape. And, yes, they do provide plenty of anxiety-inducing moments for citizens, as well as ample news fodder for media. (OK, and newspaper columnists, too.) And yes, they are issues to be dealt with. However, we should not let them be the only thing on the table for discussion this election. The kind of mindless talk now under way about the federal budget deficit and the downgrade in the nation’s credit rating is almost surely to result in less government, less regulation, less oversight which will translate into even greater threats to the food chain and our water supplies, all at precisely the moment when we need it. Is that something we can afford? We don’t need a poll to answer that question.

Fitzgerald worked for six newspapers in California as a writer and editor as well as a correspondent for several news services,
including Reuters. He lives in Valois and Watkins Glen with his wife. They are owner/operators of a video and publishing
enterprise called *subject2change Media. His “Write On” appears each Friday. He can be contacted at michael.fitzgeraldfltcolumnist@gmail.com.




As always you make big accusations with no evidence to back it up. I have seen nor heard of any widespread contamination in Pa. There have been minor accidents that have been cleaned up but that's it. Does this cotamination go along the same lines as the widespread contamination at SM. What a joke you are!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/12/11 11:49 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
As always you make big accusations with no evidence to back it up. I have seen nor heard of any widespread contamination in Pa.
http://www.truth-out.org/fracking-blowout-causes-massive-spill-pennsylvania/1303282800

Wednesday 20 April 2011
by: Mike Ludwig,

Thousands of gallons of potentially toxic hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," liquids spilled across pastures and into a stream in rural Pennsylvania early this morning, after a natural gas well suffered a blowout at 11:45 p.m. Tuesday night.

Francis Roupp, a deputy director of the Bradford County emergency services, said "many thousands" of gallons of fracturing liquids were released after a blowout near the well head. Roupp was unsure how much liquid was released, but he said it is possible that hundreds of thousands of gallons could have been released and have spilled across acres of pasture and into a small tributary to a local river.

Seven families were evacuated from the area and no injuries or release of gas into the atmosphere have been reported, according to local newspaper The Morning Call.

State and local officials are coordinating with well operator Chesapeake Energy to deal with the spill. Roupp said it is Chesapeake Energy's "problem" and they are being held responsible for dealing with it.

The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) is monitoring the water and has found a high salt content, Roupp said. A DEP spokesperson could not be reached for comment.

A blowout in a Pennsylvania fracking well last June was found to be potentially "catastrophic" by state officials because of the large amount of liquid and natural gas that was released after a "blowout preventer" in the well failed.

Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/12/11 12:17 PM

kyle don't forget the hike and Campfire Stories next Thursday at the dump. I hope to see you there!

PS: If your mommy won't let you go out after dark, bring her along.


Night Hike & Campfire Stories
Thursday, August 18th, 2011

Delve into the world of nocturnal animals and Native American legends in this fun filled evening at the Seneca Meadows Wetlands Preserve!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/12/11 01:38 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
As always you make big accusations with no evidence to back it up. I have seen nor heard of any widespread contamination in Pa.
http://www.truth-out.org/fracking-blowout-causes-massive-spill-pennsylvania/1303282800

Wednesday 20 April 2011
by: Mike Ludwig,

A blowout in a Pennsylvania fracking well last June was found to be potentially "catastrophic" by state officials because of the large amount of liquid and natural gas that was released after a "blowout preventer" in the well failed.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/12/11 02:19 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
As always you make big accusations with no evidence to back it up. I have seen nor heard of any widespread contamination in Pa.
http://www.truth-out.org/fracking-blowout-causes-massive-spill-pennsylvania/1303282800

Wednesday 20 April 2011
by: Mike Ludwig,

Thousands of gallons of potentially toxic hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," liquids spilled across pastures and into a stream in rural Pennsylvania early this morning, after a natural gas well suffered a blowout at 11:45 p.m. Tuesday night.

Francis Roupp, a deputy director of the Bradford County emergency services, said "many thousands" of gallons of fracturing liquids were released after a blowout near the well head. Roupp was unsure how much liquid was released, but he said it is possible that hundreds of thousands of gallons could have been released and have spilled across acres of pasture and into a small tributary to a local river.

Seven families were evacuated from the area and no injuries or release of gas into the atmosphere have been reported, according to local newspaper The Morning Call.

State and local officials are coordinating with well operator Chesapeake Energy to deal with the spill. Roupp said it is Chesapeake Energy's "problem" and they are being held responsible for dealing with it.

The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) is monitoring the water and has found a high salt content, Roupp said. A DEP spokesperson could not be reached for comment.

A blowout in a Pennsylvania fracking well last June was found to be potentially "catastrophic" by state officials because of the large amount of liquid and natural gas that was released after a "blowout preventer" in the well failed.





It was a accident. It was all cleaned up and people have gotton on with their lives. Accidents are going to happen with mechanical operations. Remember you said the Gulf oil spill was going to take twenty years to clean up. LMAO!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/12/11 03:09 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/20/gulf-oil-spill-update-sci_n_825634.html

SETH BORENSTEIN 02/19/11

WASHINGTON — Oil from the BP spill remains stuck on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, according to a top scientist's video and slides that she says demonstrate the oil isn't degrading as hoped and has decimated life on parts of the sea floor.

That report is at odds with a recent report by the BP spill compensation czar that said nearly all will be well by 2012.

At a science conference in Washington Saturday, marine scientist Samantha Joye of the University of Georgia aired early results of her December submarine dives around the BP spill site. She went to places she had visited in the summer and expected the oil and residue from oil-munching microbes would be gone by then. It wasn't.

"There's some sort of a bottleneck we have yet to identify for why this stuff doesn't seem to be degrading," Joye told the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual conference in Washington. Her research and those of her colleagues contrasts with other studies that show a more optimistic outlook about the health of the gulf, saying microbes did great work munching the oil.

"Magic microbes consumed maybe 10 percent of the total discharge, the rest of it we don't know," Joye said, later adding: "there's a lot of it out there."
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/12/11 03:50 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/20/gulf-oil-spill-update-sci_n_825634.html

SETH BORENSTEIN 02/19/11

WASHINGTON — Oil from the BP spill remains stuck on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, according to a top scientist's video and slides that she says demonstrate the oil isn't degrading as hoped and has decimated life on parts of the sea floor.

That report is at odds with a recent report by the BP spill compensation czar that said nearly all will be well by 2012.

At a science conference in Washington Saturday, marine scientist Samantha Joye of the University of Georgia aired early results of her December submarine dives around the BP spill site. She went to places she had visited in the summer and expected the oil and residue from oil-munching microbes would be gone by then. It wasn't.

"There's some sort of a bottleneck we have yet to identify for why this stuff doesn't seem to be degrading," Joye told the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual conference in Washington. Her research and those of her colleagues contrasts with other studies that show a more optimistic outlook about the health of the gulf, saying microbes did great work munching the oil.

"Magic microbes consumed maybe 10 percent of the total discharge, the rest of it we don't know," Joye said, later adding: "there's a lot of it out there."




Life at the surface is back to normal though isn't it. The subsurface will be taken care of. Not the total disaster you and your activist idiots tried to portray.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/12/11 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Life at the surface is back to normal though isn't it.
Is it? I don't know.
Quote:
The subsurface will be taken care of.
I think the jury is still out on that.
Quote:

Not the total disaster you and your activist idiots tried to portray.
Prepare for the worst and hope for the best is what we did and that makes more sense than what you did of assuming there is absolutely no long term problem whatsoever from dumping more oil in the gulf than has ever been done before.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/12/11 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Life at the surface is back to normal though isn't it.
Is it? I don't know.
Quote:
The subsurface will be taken care of.
I think the jury is still out on that.
Quote:

Not the total disaster you and your activist idiots tried to portray.
Prepare for the worst and hope for the best is what we did and that makes more sense than what you did of assuming there is absolutely no long term problem whatsoever from dumping more oil in the gulf than has ever been done before.



I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years. You activist people like to hype every little thing and make it a catastrophe from SM to hydrofracking.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 07:28 AM

I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 07:39 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 07:41 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 08:07 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD

pixie girl don't' forget...see you there! Harleybob

Night Hike & Campfire Stories
Thursday, August 18th, 2011

Delve into the world of nocturnal animals and Native American legends in this fun filled evening at the Seneca Meadows Wetlands Preserve!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.
Of all the statements you make on here, this is the one that makes me shake my head the most. I can see someday the local population saying enough garbage. SM will be closed. It may be made into a ski slope. But to mine it? I can't imagine that in my wildest dreams. It will never work.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 06:23 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.
Of all the statements you make on here, this is the one that makes me shake my head the most. I can see someday the local population saying enough garbage. SM will be closed. It may be made into a ski slope. But to mine it? I can't imagine that in my wildest dreams. It will never work.


Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
kyle don't forget the hike and Campfire Stories next Thursday at the dump. I hope to see you there!

PS: If your mommy won't let you go out after dark, bring her along.


Night Hike & Campfire Stories
Thursday, August 18th, 2011

Delve into the world of nocturnal animals and Native American legends in this fun filled evening at the Seneca Meadows Wetlands Preserve!
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 07:27 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 07:53 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.
He wishes he lived in the Bahamas. He the guy that drives around the county in that old Toyota RV Camper. He's in Ithaca all the time, he's bootlegging Wi-Fi!
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.
He wishes he lived in the Bahamas. He the guy that drives around the county in that old Toyota RV Camper. He's in Ithaca all the time, he's bootlegging Wi-Fi!



I think he lives in the Bahamas part time because he's the kind whose a tax evader. Not really trustworthy or credible when you commit fraud doing your job.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/13/11 09:11 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman



I think he lives in the Bahamas part time because he's the kind whose a tax evader. Not really trustworthy or credible when you commit fraud doing your job.

pixie works at the Sewage Plants.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/14/11 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD

pixie girl don't' forget...see you there! Harleybob

Night Hike & Campfire Stories
Thursday, August 18th, 2011

Delve into the world of nocturnal animals and Native American legends in this fun filled evening at the Seneca Meadows Wetlands Preserve!



sorry would love to go but my hazmat suit is out for cleaning from the last time I drove by the puss.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/14/11 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,


oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh just like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


guess you never took reading in grade 4 when you graduated from school. I said there are many types of solar , hot water solar panels have a 3 year pay back is that not good enough for you then put up passive solar heat 2 year pay back.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/14/11 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.


at least its in the bahamas.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/14/11 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?



I put two on the hood and four on the camper in the back , but I have hot water for free.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/14/11 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.
He wishes he lived in the Bahamas. He the guy that drives around the county in that old Toyota RV Camper. He's in Ithaca all the time, he's bootlegging Wi-Fi!


realy wow what a great life , how did you dream that story up , are back hitting the bottle again.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/14/11 04:02 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.
He wishes he lived in the Bahamas. He the guy that drives around the county in that old Toyota RV Camper. He's in Ithaca all the time, he's bootlegging Wi-Fi!



I think he lives in the Bahamas part time because he's the kind whose a tax evader. Not really trustworthy or credible when you commit fraud doing your job.


I guess that is better then picking garbage working two jobs 7 days a week , boo hoo.

boy can you make up stories .
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/14/11 04:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: brainman



I think he lives in the Bahamas part time because he's the kind whose a tax evader. Not really trustworthy or credible when you commit fraud doing your job.

pixie works at the Sewage Plants.


what are you worried I will take your job at the mountians of puss.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/14/11 04:06 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie


realy wow what a great life , how did you dream that story up , are back hitting the bottle again.
Ahahahahahaha...Yes realy!!!!
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/14/11 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.


at least its in the bahamas.





Tax evader.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/14/11 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: brainman



I think he lives in the Bahamas part time because he's the kind whose a tax evader. Not really trustworthy or credible when you commit fraud doing your job.

pixie works at the Sewage Plants.


what are you worried I will take your job at the mountians of puss.




I don't think they hire people who commit fraud.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:16 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.


at least its in the bahamas.







Tax evader.




If you have proof of this I would like to see it. maybe you should google , lible laws .
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:20 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: brainman



I think he lives in the Bahamas part time because he's the kind whose a tax evader. Not really trustworthy or credible when you commit fraud doing your job.

pixie works at the Sewage Plants.


what are you worried I will take your job at the mountians of puss.




I don't think they hire people who commit fraud.


oh so they will never hire you becasue your a fraud with a grade four education.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie


realy wow what a great life , how did you dream that story up , are back hitting the bottle again.
Ahahahahahaha...Yes realy!!!!



Have you worn out the A and H keys yet
Posted by: McLovin'

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:25 AM

For someone who is dropping by from the Yates Forum, it is difficult to follow the conversation, but it sure looks pretty.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 01:16 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.


at least its in the bahamas.







Tax evader.




If you have proof of this I would like to see it. maybe you should google , lible laws .




You said it your own words. You changed the results of testing on paperwork. That's fraud.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: brainman



I think he lives in the Bahamas part time because he's the kind whose a tax evader. Not really trustworthy or credible when you commit fraud doing your job.

pixie works at the Sewage Plants.


what are you worried I will take your job at the mountians of puss.




I don't think they hire people who commit fraud.


oh so they will never hire you becasue your a fraud with a grade four education.




I'm a lot smarter than people like you have a degree but have never worked a day in your life. It's called experience and it's a lot more valuable than morons like you who have a degree but no common sense.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
I'm a lot smarter than people like you have a degree but have never worked a day in your life. It's called experience and it's a lot more valuable than morons like you who have a degree but no common sense.
Your prejudice against education comes through loud and clear every once in a while. You think anyone with a degree has never worked a day in their life, don't you? Does that include teachers, medical doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc? Where would we be without any educated people? Oh, yes we would have even bigger pus piles than we do now with no educated people to support our community.
Posted by: SportsRef1

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 04:19 PM

Teachers of old Kyle and certainly not lawyers.....teachers have put our education system in the mess it is in and lawyers just grow up to be politicians or wanna be's......look at congress Kyle......full of that list of hardworkers you so love!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By: SportsRef1
Teachers of old Kyle and certainly not lawyers.....teachers have put our education system in the mess it is in and lawyers just grow up to be politicians or wanna be's......look at congress Kyle......full of that list of hardworkers you so love!
So are you suggesting no one go to college any more?
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
I'm a lot smarter than people like you have a degree but have never worked a day in your life. It's called experience and it's a lot more valuable than morons like you who have a degree but no common sense.
Your prejudice against education comes through loud and clear every once in a while. You think anyone with a degree has never worked a day in their life, don't you? Does that include teachers, medical doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc? Where would we be without any educated people? Oh, yes we would have even bigger pus piles than we do now with no educated people to support our community.



I've worked with a lot of educated idiots in my life. Most have a degree but no common sense. They are book smart but if you send them out in the trenches to do actual manual labor they don't have a clue. To me somebody with actual everyday experience is much more valuable than a overpaid stuffed shirt.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,


oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh just like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


guess you never took reading in grade 4 when you graduated from school. I said there are many types of solar , hot water solar panels have a 3 year pay back is that not good enough for you then put up passive solar heat 2 year pay back.
pixie girl are you installing Evergreen Solar panels?
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
I'm a lot smarter than people like you have a degree but have never worked a day in your life. It's called experience and it's a lot more valuable than morons like you who have a degree but no common sense.
Your prejudice against education comes through loud and clear every once in a while. You think anyone with a degree has never worked a day in their life, don't you? Does that include teachers, medical doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc? Where would we be without any educated people? Oh, yes we would have even bigger pus piles than we do now with no educated people to support our community.
I've worked with a lot of educated idiots in my life. Most have a degree but no common sense. They are book smart but if you send them out in the trenches to do actual manual labor they don't have a clue. To me somebody with actual everyday experience is much more valuable than a overpaid stuffed shirt.
Why in the world would you send an educated person out to do manual labor in trenches? What a waste of brainpower.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
I'm a lot smarter than people like you have a degree but have never worked a day in your life. It's called experience and it's a lot more valuable than morons like you who have a degree but no common sense.
Your prejudice against education comes through loud and clear every once in a while. You think anyone with a degree has never worked a day in their life, don't you? Does that include teachers, medical doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc? Where would we be without any educated people? Oh, yes we would have even bigger pus piles than we do now with no educated people to support our community.
I've worked with a lot of educated idiots in my life. Most have a degree but no common sense. They are book smart but if you send them out in the trenches to do actual manual labor they don't have a clue. To me somebody with actual everyday experience is much more valuable than a overpaid stuffed shirt.
Why in the world would you send an educated person out to do manual labor in trenches? What a waste of brainpower.



My point is the people with the degrees try and tell the actual working people how to do their jobs when they don't have a clue.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 06:26 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,


oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh just like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


guess you never took reading in grade 4 when you graduated from school. I said there are many types of solar , hot water solar panels have a 3 year pay back is that not good enough for you then put up passive solar heat 2 year pay back.




Maybe 3 or 4 years in the Bahamas not here though. 8 years here not cost effective at all Shows how much you know.



Solar hot water payback

The payback period for solar hot water solutions is short for the simpler designs. In very favorable cases (associated to favorable climate conditions) 3 or 4 years paybacks are possible. In colder climates the paybacks can double those numbers. Obviously, state incentives and an high consumption can make the payback even more advantageous.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
I'm a lot smarter than people like you have a degree but have never worked a day in your life. It's called experience and it's a lot more valuable than morons like you who have a degree but no common sense.
Your prejudice against education comes through loud and clear every once in a while. You think anyone with a degree has never worked a day in their life, don't you? Does that include teachers, medical doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc? Where would we be without any educated people? Oh, yes we would have even bigger pus piles than we do now with no educated people to support our community.
I've worked with a lot of educated idiots in my life. Most have a degree but no common sense. They are book smart but if you send them out in the trenches to do actual manual labor they don't have a clue. To me somebody with actual everyday experience is much more valuable than a overpaid stuffed shirt.
Why in the world would you send an educated person out to do manual labor in trenches? What a waste of brainpower.



My point is the people with the degrees try and tell the actual working people how to do their jobs when they don't have a clue.


Originally Posted By: kyle585
Why in the world would you send an educated person out to do manual labor in trenches? What a waste of brainpower.
Ahahahahaha...you really are a filthy scum-bag elitist!
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,


oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh just like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


guess you never took reading in grade 4 when you graduated from school. I said there are many types of solar , hot water solar panels have a 3 year pay back is that not good enough for you then put up passive solar heat 2 year pay back.



Solar PV not cost effective at all yet.



Solar PV paybacks

The solar payback for photovoltaic solutions is high. Prices are lowering and the solar electricity paybacks are improving, but only state rebates and tax credits can make this type of solar solution attractive enough. Experts expect solar photovoltaic to be cost-competitive by 2016 or so...
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 06:39 PM

Quote:
Obviously, state incentives and an high consumption can make the payback even more advantageous.


Although it's obvious that if you can force other people to help you pay for an installation, your payback period will be shorter, how is it obvious that high consumption makes the payback "more advantageous"?
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 06:43 PM

really depends on a few factors like how much you pay for electricity , many places in the usa are now in the 18c kwh highest is 32 c KWH range ny is 13 to 15 c KWH , at 18c KWH solar is now at least a payback in 8 to 10 years and 2x your money in 20 3X in 25 , if electrical rates keep going up. The prices of solar panels are droping rather qucikily as volume goes up. In 2010 they were 5 to 6 dollars a watt, there now down to 1.30 per watt. and solar companies are saying expect sub 1.00 per watt by years end. But hey put up hot water solar , be proactive.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
Obviously, state incentives and an high consumption can make the payback even more advantageous.


Although it's obvious that if you can force other people to help you pay for an installation, your payback period will be shorter, how is it obvious that high consumption makes the payback "more advantageous"?


your right It does not unless the switch to PV forces you use lower wattage bulbs or use less but then you could just lower your consumption that and not use PV.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 06:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,


oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh just like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


guess you never took reading in grade 4 when you graduated from school. I said there are many types of solar , hot water solar panels have a 3 year pay back is that not good enough for you then put up passive solar heat 2 year pay back.
pixie girl are you installing Evergreen Solar panels?


yes about 12 kw worth .
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 06:56 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,


oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh just like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


guess you never took reading in grade 4 when you graduated from school. I said there are many types of solar , hot water solar panels have a 3 year pay back is that not good enough for you then put up passive solar heat 2 year pay back.
pixie girl are you installing Evergreen Solar panels?


yes about 12 kw worth .


Those solar panels are fighting out of the Evergreen Solar Factor!
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
[quote=pixie]I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.


at least its in the bahamas.







Tax evader.




If you have proof of this I would like to see it. maybe you should google , lible laws .




You said it your own words. You changed the results of testing on paperwork. That's fraud. [/quote]

You have a bad memory, I said its typical that engineers will adjust the words an and use figures so there client looks good . I did create words and use figures which made some of my clients look better, and as I said I no longer do it, ie 35 years ago . And It’s far from fraud.

It’s done all the time , the great Gas companies you love do it all the time, it’s not fraud its the way things work. Ie. your great gas companies will forget to tell the public that every well will get fracked three to four times just so they look good to the public. is that fraud or creative word smoothing. I also repeated this a few time , but you still insist on calling me libels names , however as you have no proof or real facts about fraud or tax evader and as a warning you should take to heart.
Yes I spend half my time in the Bahamas, so why does that make me a tax evader. Yes Bahamas has limited tax but as you don’t know diddily about me or my companies situation, so what reason would you to call me libels names .
.
It is libels to call someone a fraud or tax evader even on forums without proof, and especially not to someone who has the ways and means to sue you. Last time you said oh well I have nothing go ahead and sue. If you are sued your lawyer costs would be 10 to 15 k too defend and the person who wins ie ME would have a large portion of your double salary taken away for a very long time , is calling me names worth the risk. your call.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:15 PM

english please seabee what are you trying to say ??
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:20 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
english please seabee what are you trying to say ??
Ahahahahahaah...your snobby crap doesn't work here numb-nut!
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:31 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
[quote=brainman][quote=pixie]I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.


at least its in the bahamas.







Tax evader.




If you have proof of this I would like to see it. maybe you should google , lible laws .




You said it your own words. You changed the results of testing on paperwork. That's fraud. [/quote]

You have a bad memory, I said its typical that engineers will adjust the words an and use figures so there client looks good . I did create words and use figures which made some of my clients look better, and as I said I no longer do it, ie 35 years ago . And It’s far from fraud.

It’s done all the time , the great Gas companies you love do it all the time, it’s not fraud its the way things work. Ie. your great gas companies will forget to tell the public that every well will get fracked three to four times just so they look good to the public. is that fraud or creative word smoothing. I also repeated this a few time , but you still insist on calling me libels names , however as you have no proof or real facts about fraud or tax evader and as a warning you should take to heart.
Yes I spend half my time in the Bahamas, so why does that make me a tax evader. Yes Bahamas has limited tax but as you don’t know diddily about me or my companies situation, so what reason would you to call me libels names .
.
It is libels to call someone a fraud or tax evader even on forums without proof, and especially not to someone who has the ways and means to sue you. Last time you said oh well I have nothing go ahead and sue. If you are sued your lawyer costs would be 10 to 15 k too defend and the person who wins ie ME would have a large portion of your double salary taken away for a very long time , is calling me names worth the risk. your call.
[/quote]


Are you threatning me? Never going to happen. Your lawyer costs will be more than you gain. Besides you have to prove intent which is nearly impossible. I also have records of all the names you have called me over the years. Not a winnable case at all.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
[quote=brainman][quote=pixie]I told you it would be all cleaned up in less than two years .

is that why we still have oil slicks and tar balls in florida and bahamas. not cleand up yet .
,

oh just like you told us SM would be mined in two years , sorry did not happen ,
,

oh just like you told us we would have gasifartation in geneva in two years , nope did not happen ether .

.
oh jus like they would win on the aluminum salt land fill , nope did not happen.



It hasn't been two years moron. It will be cleaned up.

Show me where I said SM would be mined in two years as usual you are a liar. I said it would be mined someday and it will.


On the gasification I was wrong. It's in Canandaigua not Geneva.


It's to bad on the salt cake landfill. Now well paying jobs are at stake because of morons like you.


Just like you did not say SAME or WELL PAD



Like you said solar panels are a good financial investment.


you dont have to worry they wont fit on your trailer
How did you get them to fit on your old Toyota Camper?




I was wondering how they were going to fit on that thatch hut he calls a house in the Bahamas.


at least its in the bahamas.







Tax evader.




If you have proof of this I would like to see it. maybe you should google , lible laws .




You said it your own words. You changed the results of testing on paperwork. That's fraud. [/quote]

You have a bad memory, I said its typical that engineers will adjust the words an and use figures so there client looks good . I did create words and use figures which made some of my clients look better, and as I said I no longer do it, ie 35 years ago . And It’s far from fraud.

It’s done all the time , the great Gas companies you love do it all the time, it’s not fraud its the way things work. Ie. your great gas companies will forget to tell the public that every well will get fracked three to four times just so they look good to the public. is that fraud or creative word smoothing. I also repeated this a few time , but you still insist on calling me libels names , however as you have no proof or real facts about fraud or tax evader and as a warning you should take to heart.
Yes I spend half my time in the Bahamas, so why does that make me a tax evader. Yes Bahamas has limited tax but as you don’t know diddily about me or my companies situation, so what reason would you to call me libels names .
.
It is libels to call someone a fraud or tax evader even on forums without proof, and especially not to someone who has the ways and means to sue you. Last time you said oh well I have nothing go ahead and sue. If you are sued your lawyer costs would be 10 to 15 k too defend and the person who wins ie ME would have a large portion of your double salary taken away for a very long time , is calling me names worth the risk. your call.
[/quote]



Falsifying paperwork is fraud Check into it. So tell us what country your company is registered in?
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:42 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
I'm a lot smarter than people like you have a degree but have never worked a day in your life. It's called experience and it's a lot more valuable than morons like you who have a degree but no common sense.
Your prejudice against education comes through loud and clear every once in a while. You think anyone with a degree has never worked a day in their life, don't you? Does that include teachers, medical doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc? Where would we be without any educated people? Oh, yes we would have even bigger pus piles than we do now with no educated people to support our community.



I've worked with a lot of educated idiots in my life. Most have a degree but no common sense. They are book smart but if you send them out in the trenches to do actual manual labor they don't have a clue. To me somebody with actual everyday experience is much more valuable than a overpaid stuffed shirt.


What would ever make you think I have not worked . I have done mostly ard jobs all my life born on a farm and worked like heck, owned my own companies and still do and worked my butt off. worked out in the plant more hours than any employee, I operated the equipment and pulling my fair share . I have built over 30,000 sq ft of buildings and not just sitting around, but doing every job. I built two houses my self ground up . I work harder than most people I know. Worked my way through high school and collage doing two jobs just like you. I had no money so if I wanted to stay in collage I had to earn it. I built houses as a side job after collage to make ends meet during my engineering apprentice period. And my hands show the calluses to prove it. So just because I have a few degrees does not mean I’m a sitting in the office ordering guys around.
.
Remember insults go both ways if you don’t like being called names THEN DON’T CALL ME NAMES remember you have been calling me and everyone else one the forum names for 2 years now , and you have been banned how many times 8 or 9 . I went away only because I had a heart attack last year, but now I feel stronger and not going away. You have a choice, stop calling me names or I will be all over you on the forums every time you post, your choice.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:47 PM

what diffrence does it make where my bussiness are located as you have no knowlage of my tax SITUATION OR PAYMENTS ( MANY MANY times more then you make let me tell you ) it hardly gives you the right to call me a tax evader.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
english please seabee what are you trying to say ??
Ahahahahahaah...your snobby crap doesn't work here numb-nut!


nether does your silly one linners with AHAHAHAHAHAHAH all over the place thats real smart.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:55 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
I'm a lot smarter than people like you have a degree but have never worked a day in your life. It's called experience and it's a lot more valuable than morons like you who have a degree but no common sense.
Your prejudice against education comes through loud and clear every once in a while. You think anyone with a degree has never worked a day in their life, don't you? Does that include teachers, medical doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc? Where would we be without any educated people? Oh, yes we would have even bigger pus piles than we do now with no educated people to support our community.



I've worked with a lot of educated idiots in my life. Most have a degree but no common sense. They are book smart but if you send them out in the trenches to do actual manual labor they don't have a clue. To me somebody with actual everyday experience is much more valuable than a overpaid stuffed shirt.


What would ever make you think I have not worked . I have done mostly ard jobs all my life born on a farm and worked like heck, owned my own companies and still do and worked my butt off. worked out in the plant more hours than any employee, I operated the equipment and pulling my fair share . I have built over 30,000 sq ft of buildings and not just sitting around, but doing every job. I built two houses my self ground up . I work harder than most people I know. Worked my way through high school and collage doing two jobs just like you. I had no money so if I wanted to stay in collage I had to earn it. I built houses as a side job after collage to make ends meet during my engineering apprentice period. And my hands show the calluses to prove it. So just because I have a few degrees does not mean I’m a sitting in the office ordering guys around.
.
Remember insults go both ways if you don’t like being called names THEN DON’T CALL ME NAMES remember you have been calling me and everyone else one the forum names for 2 years now , and you have been banned how many times 8 or 9 . I went away only because I had a heart attack last year, but now I feel stronger and not going away. You have a choice, stop calling me names or I will be all over you on the forums every time you post, your choice.




Don't threaten me. People like you don't scare me. I can match anything you dish out. I've already shown your solar panel statements to be false. You are the one who will end up looking bad and not credible.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
what diffrence does it make where my bussiness are located as you have no knowlage of my tax SITUATION OR PAYMENTS ( MANY MANY times more then you make let me tell you ) it hardly gives you the right to call me a tax evader.



So your business is registered in the Bahamas. I wonder why that could be? Maybe tax reasons!
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
what diffrence does it make where my bussiness are located as you have no knowlage of my tax SITUATION OR PAYMENTS ( MANY MANY times more then you make let me tell you ) it hardly gives you the right to call me a tax evader.



So your business is registered in the Bahamas. I wonder why that could be? Maybe tax reasons!



never said where they are , you know nothing so why shoot your mouth off if you can prove some then say it other wise you would be well advise to say nothing.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:04 PM

so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:05 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
what diffrence does it make where my bussiness are located as you have no knowlage of my tax SITUATION OR PAYMENTS ( MANY MANY times more then you make let me tell you ) it hardly gives you the right to call me a tax evader.



So your business is registered in the Bahamas. I wonder why that could be? Maybe tax reasons!






never said where they are , you know nothing so why shoot your mouth off if you can prove some then say it other wise you would be well advise to say nothing.



Why don't you tell us all? You got something to hide? Show us you are a true American and prove me wrong.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:08 PM

I have nothing to hide, its just none of your bussiness.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:09 PM

I've already shown your solar panel statements to be false. you said

not even close there are many forms of solar. some work better in some areas then others , your just to uneducated to know it.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.


your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.
Posted by: SportsNut

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:13 PM

This one is for Pixie, if solar is so great and they where given Millions of Dollars, why are the filing bankruptcy? Also I think this is one of the companies Obama's poster company.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/massachusetts_solar_energy_com.html
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
I have nothing to hide, its just none of your bussiness.




I think you do have something to hide or otherwise you would jump at the chance to prove me wrong. Show us all your true colors. Show us you are a true American and have American registered companies and pay all your USA taxes and don't evade taxes by having your companies registered off shore.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:16 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
I've already shown your solar panel statements to be false. you said

not even close there are many forms of solar. some work better in some areas then others , your just to uneducated to know it.



Solar not economicly feasible in the Northern United States.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/15/11 08:18 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.





your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.




There's the difference between you and me. I don't cry and whine and threaten to sue when you call me names. Shows what kinda person you really are doesn't it?
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/16/11 12:39 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.





your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.




There's the difference between you and me. I don't cry and whine and threaten to sue when you call me names. Shows what kinda person you really are doesn't it?


diffrence between calling someone names like you do every post and saying that I am tax evader, when you have aboslutily no proof. some news for you bahamas is not a tax haven they have a treaty with the USA, all earnings in the bahamas and bank recordes are open and reviewed and taxable. Been like that for 8 years now.

so just because I winter in the bahamas does not allow you to call me a tax evader .

It would be like me calling you a bank robber just because you go to a bank.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/16/11 01:23 PM

Originally Posted By: SportsNut
This one is for Pixie, if solar is so great and they where given Millions of Dollars, why are the filing bankruptcy? Also I think this is one of the companies Obama's poster company.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/massachusetts_solar_energy_com.html


did you read the report , they closed because they are selling more panels then they can make in USA and can make them cheaper in china, It does not mean solar is lowering , in fact its growing world wide. Most countries in the world do not have the cheap oil gasoline and electrical rates USA has
so in italy they are putting up renewable energy as fast as they can. ie the rates in england and europe for gasoline is 8 US dollars per gal . Homes in england can spend 1000 per month for electricty. so how long will it be before our energy is high enough for solar to be on a par. remember very little polution and free sun.

In 2010, the solar industry grew by 67 percent, and in the past 12 months it expected to add some 20,000 jobs, according to the Solar Energy Industries Association, making it the fastest-growing sector of the U.S. economy by far last year.

each MW of installed PV systems is 32 jobs.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/16/11 04:54 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: SportsNut
This one is for Pixie, if solar is so great and they where given Millions of Dollars, why are the filing bankruptcy? Also I think this is one of the companies Obama's poster company.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/massachusetts_solar_energy_com.html


did you read the report , they closed because they are selling more panels then they can make in USA and can make them cheaper in china, It does not mean solar is lowering , in fact its growing world wide. Most countries in the world do not have the cheap oil gasoline and electrical rates USA has
so in italy they are putting up renewable energy as fast as they can. ie the rates in england and europe for gasoline is 8 US dollars per gal . Homes in england can spend 1000 per month for electricty. so how long will it be before our energy is high enough for solar to be on a par. remember very little polution and free sun.

In 2010, the solar industry grew by 67 percent, and in the past 12 months it expected to add some 20,000 jobs, according to the Solar Energy Industries Association, making it the fastest-growing sector of the U.S. economy by far last year.

each MW of installed PV systems is 32 jobs.
Your so full of it crap its bubbling out of your ears pixie girl!

Analyst: Evergreen Solar Bankruptcy is the 'Tip of the Iceberg'
Supply glut could cause additional manufacturers to fall.

By Jonathan Katz

Aug. 16, 2011



When Evergreen Solar Inc. filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy Aug. 15, the company cited several market conditions that have impacted business, including a drop in silicon pricing, significant global capacity expansion and an end to industry subsidies in Germany and other key markets.

The company's troubles could force it to give back money it received in the form of tax breaks from the state of Massachusetts, according to a National Public Radio report.

The news could cast further doubt on the usefulness subsidies provide to the renewable-energy market. Evergreen Solar's string-ribbon technology requires them to use less polysilicon than conventional processes. When polysilicon prices were high, the company had a competitive advantage.

The industry is struggling with a supply glut created over the past two to three years when subsidies in key European markets, namely Germany and Italy, drove demand, says Gordon Johnson, an alternative-energy analyst with Axiom Capital Management Inc.

"If you were a solar panel manufacturer everything you produced you could effectively sell, and the economics on this stuff at the time were such that you were basically getting paid back for the equipment you were investing in a matter of three to four months," Johnson says. "And you were getting return on capital of 200% to 300%."

But Germany and Italy have begun rolling back these subsidies, known as feed-in tariffs, significantly reducing demand and creating excess supplies.

Demand in Italy, the second-largest global solar market, will likely decline by approximately 19% this year, Johnson says. Meanwhile, supplies are expected to grow by nearly 100% because manufacturers ramped up capacity in 2010, he says.

Johnson says he expects more solar-panel manufacturers to file for bankruptcy in the coming years, including some larger companies.

"This is one of the most oversupplied industries I've ever seen," Johnson says. "Evergreen is just the tip of the iceberg."
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/16/11 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: SportsNut
This one is for Pixie, if solar is so great and they where given Millions of Dollars, why are the filing bankruptcy? Also I think this is one of the companies Obama's poster company.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/massachusetts_solar_energy_com.html


did you read the report , they closed because they are selling more panels then they can make in USA and can make them cheaper in china, It does not mean solar is lowering , in fact its growing world wide. Most countries in the world do not have the cheap oil gasoline and electrical rates USA has
so in italy they are putting up renewable energy as fast as they can. ie the rates in england and europe for gasoline is 8 US dollars per gal . Homes in england can spend 1000 per month for electricty. so how long will it be before our energy is high enough for solar to be on a par. remember very little polution and free sun.

In 2010, the solar industry grew by 67 percent, and in the past 12 months it expected to add some 20,000 jobs, according to the Solar Energy Industries Association, making it the fastest-growing sector of the U.S. economy by far last year.

each MW of installed PV systems is 32 jobs.
Your so full of it crap its bubbling out of your ears pixie girl!

Analyst: Evergreen Solar Bankruptcy is the 'Tip of the Iceberg'
Supply glut could cause additional manufacturers to fall.

By Jonathan Katz

Aug. 16, 2011



When Evergreen Solar Inc. filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy Aug. 15, the company cited several market conditions that have impacted business, including a drop in silicon pricing, significant global capacity expansion and an end to industry subsidies in Germany and other key markets.

The company's troubles could force it to give back money it received in the form of tax breaks from the state of Massachusetts, according to a National Public Radio report.

The news could cast further doubt on the usefulness subsidies provide to the renewable-energy market. Evergreen Solar's string-ribbon technology requires them to use less polysilicon than conventional processes. When polysilicon prices were high, the company had a competitive advantage.

The industry is struggling with a supply glut created over the past two to three years when subsidies in key European markets, namely Germany and Italy, drove demand, says Gordon Johnson, an alternative-energy analyst with Axiom Capital Management Inc.

"If you were a solar panel manufacturer everything you produced you could effectively sell, and the economics on this stuff at the time were such that you were basically getting paid back for the equipment you were investing in a matter of three to four months," Johnson says. "And you were getting return on capital of 200% to 300%."

But Germany and Italy have begun rolling back these subsidies, known as feed-in tariffs, significantly reducing demand and creating excess supplies.

Demand in Italy, the second-largest global solar market, will likely decline by approximately 19% this year, Johnson says. Meanwhile, supplies are expected to grow by nearly 100% because manufacturers ramped up capacity in 2010, he says.

Johnson says he expects more solar-panel manufacturers to file for bankruptcy in the coming years, including some larger companies.

"This is one of the most oversupplied industries I've ever seen," Johnson says. "Evergreen is just the tip of the iceberg."




Without subsidies and tax credits theres no way solar is economicly feasible in this part of the country.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/16/11 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.








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your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.




There's the difference between you and me. I don't cry and whine and threaten to sue when you call me names. Shows what kinda person you really are doesn't it?


diffrence between calling someone names like you do every post and saying that I am tax evader, when you have aboslutily no proof. some news for you bahamas is not a tax haven they have a treaty with the USA, all earnings in the bahamas and bank recordes are open and reviewed and taxable. Been like that for 8 years now.

so just because I winter in the bahamas does not allow you to call me a tax evader .

It would be like me calling you a bank robber just because you go to a bank.



As usual you are full of crap.



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Bahamas


The Commonwealth of the Bahamas, as they are officially known, is made up of some 700 islands and 2,500 cays or islets scattered over 750 miles of the Atlantic Ocean. This 100,000 sq./mile archipelago begins about 50 miles due east of West Palm Beach, Florida, where Freeport on the island of Grand Bahama is located, and extends lazily some 500 miles sourtheastward, finally ending among the Turks & Caicos Islands [another Caribbean no-tax haven, geographically (but not politically) part of the Bahamas]. Only about 25 of the Bahama islands are inhabited, and three-fourths of the people reside on just two islands – New Providence (where Nassau the Capital is located) and Grand Bahama Island (Freeport).

The Bahamas – The Perfect No-tax Haven

The Bahamas have one of the largest volumes of tax haven business in the world. There is no personal or corporate income tax, no capital gains tax, no withholding tax, no inheritance tax, no death duties, no employment taxes, no sales taxes, and no probate fees in the Bahamas. Corporations, individuals, partnerships, trusts, and estates (including nonresident controlled Bahamian corporations) all enjoy this immunity. The principal source of revenue for the government comes from company registration fees and customs duties.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/16/11 07:18 PM

always two sides to each story seabee

Mike McGregor for Bloomberg Business week Evergreen solar
We make silicon wafers that go into solar panels. In 2008 we decided to build a plant in Massachusetts to be near our research and development facility. There was a groundswell of optimism that the U.S. was going to take the lead in the drive for alternative energy.
There were challenges from the start. Lehman Brothers was our banker and had almost a third of our outstanding shares as part of a financing transaction. That disappeared in Lehman's bankruptcy and cost us about $300 million. Then we went to the federal government to get help from the TARP funds, but they said no because we weren't a financial institution.
In December 2008 we were approached by a Chinese company, Jiawei, which was impressed with our wafer technology. The Chinese government agreed to support a loan that would cover two-thirds of our expansion in China. The subsidies we received from the government here covered less than 5 percent of the cost of our U.S. plant. We received $20 million and some future tax credits, but you can't pay taxes if you don't make money.
One mistake was making the U.S. facility too large. We should have made it a quarter the size. I wrote to the governor of Massachusetts, and we went to everyone we could think of—Congress, our banks. Nobody could help us. Then, late last year, prices went down 10 percent in one month for the modules we sell—on top of steadily falling prices for the last three years. That left us no choice but to stop making panels in the U.S. and shift our focus to making wafers in China. The access to capital for startups there is staggering.
About 800 people in our U.S. factory will lose their jobs, but the company wouldn't have survived if we didn't make this choice. Now we'll focus on what we do best. If we had stayed here, we would have been insolvent by September. We needed to do this to survive, although my hope is that some day more jobs will come back here.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/16/11 07:50 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.








E-Mail us | Site Map | Privacy | Contact





We are proud to be the oldest and continuous provider and publisher of anonymity, asset protection, offshore, privacy, PT, tax avoidance, tax haven and wealth protection products and services in the world - bar none!






How To Pay Us | Introduction | Our Mission | PT Philosophy | Wealth Protection | Testimonials












your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.




There's the difference between you and me. I don't cry and whine and threaten to sue when you call me names. Shows what kinda person you really are doesn't it?


diffrence between calling someone names like you do every post and saying that I am tax evader, when you have aboslutily no proof. some news for you bahamas is not a tax haven they have a treaty with the USA, all earnings in the bahamas and bank recordes are open and reviewed and taxable. Been like that for 8 years now.

so just because I winter in the bahamas does not allow you to call me a tax evader .

It would be like me calling you a bank robber just because you go to a bank.



As usual you are full of crap.



About us
Anonymity
Anonymous Banking
Anonymous GSM Mobile Phone
Asset Production
Book Store
Citizenship and Resiency Programs
Consultancy Services
Contact Us
Credit Cards
Forfeiture Sales Of Giant U.S. Corp.
How To Pay Offshore-Manual
Ids
Immigration
International Business Company
International Driving Permit
Maildrops
Merchant Accounts
Offshore Companies
Order Forms
Passports & Citizenships
Payment Options
Photo Id Cards
Press Pass
Second Passports & Citizenships
Secure Order Form
Special Offers
Swiss Bank Accounts
Tip Of The Month
Titles: Noble & Royal
Trusts


Bahamas


The Commonwealth of the Bahamas, as they are officially known, is made up of some 700 islands and 2,500 cays or islets scattered over 750 miles of the Atlantic Ocean. This 100,000 sq./mile archipelago begins about 50 miles due east of West Palm Beach, Florida, where Freeport on the island of Grand Bahama is located, and extends lazily some 500 miles sourtheastward, finally ending among the Turks & Caicos Islands [another Caribbean no-tax haven, geographically (but not politically) part of the Bahamas]. Only about 25 of the Bahama islands are inhabited, and three-fourths of the people reside on just two islands – New Providence (where Nassau the Capital is located) and Grand Bahama Island (Freeport).

The Bahamas – The Perfect No-tax Haven

The Bahamas have one of the largest volumes of tax haven business in the world. There is no personal or corporate income tax, no capital gains tax, no withholding tax, no inheritance tax, no death duties, no employment taxes, no sales taxes, and no probate fees in the Bahamas. Corporations, individuals, partnerships, trusts, and estates (including nonresident controlled Bahamian corporations) all enjoy this immunity. The principal source of revenue for the government comes from company registration fees and customs duties.



like always your using old information about 2006 they worked a tax aggremnt with the usa and signed it in 2009 so while they may have little tax they do have a form of VAT

many people who were using it as tax haven left for camans .

THINKING OF BANKING IN THE BAHAMAS AS AN OFFSHORE TAX HAVEN?
THINK AGAIN! Read below for a comparison.
Bahamian banking secrecy is somewhat misleading in that that banking institutions are prohibited from divulging a clients or account holders information to a third party without the clear consent of the account holder (think Americans may have to sign waivers when opening an account) or under a Bahamian court order. The bad part is that banking institutions are freely permitted to divulge that a particular person or company does in fact have an account with that bank. While the bank cannot, according to Bahamian law, divulge specific details or account balances, they certainly can divulge who their account holders are. The Bahamas bank secrecy took a real nosedive in Jan. 2006 when a Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) with the United States took effect. This means wholesale fishing expeditions are a distinct possibility, for example give us a list of every account holder, or this name came up in an investigation give us the records pertaining to this person. No wonder 45% of the deposits have left Bahamas banks since they went to this new legislation that compromises bank secrecy severely.
Bahamas corporations are not Bearer share and thus not anonymous. Interestingly enough a Bahamas LLC can not engage in business in the Bahamas or own real estate in the Bahamas, more negatives.
The Bahamas gets about 5 cruise ships a day on average with each cruise ship averaging about 2500 people. If we figure that each person on average spends $50 at port and that there is a head tax of about $20 per person coming to the Bahamas we can see why the Bahamas compromised their secrecy and privacy. If they didn't they would risk losing their tourism business which employs more people than their banking ever did and also generates more revenue. The Bahamas was once a decent jurisdiction but they sold out to protect their largest industry – tourism. They have large beachfront hotels, gambling casinos, fishing, diving etc all more lucrative than their offshore banking was.
Bahamas fails to provide anything resembling a level of privacy that we require so stay away is our advice.

• Citizens and residents of the United States are taxed on their worldwide income. To help prevent the use of offshore entities for tax evasion or deferral, Congress has enacted several specific provisions in the Internal Revenue Code. Some provisions trigger recognition of gains that would otherwise be deferred. Others deny deferral of tax on income moved offshore.
• The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act was enacted into law on March 18, 2010 and is intended to increase compliance for U.S. persons to report income from offshore accounts.
• Though promoters of offshore schemes often advance technical arguments, which purport to show that their scheme is legal, the intent of Congress remains clear. U.S. taxpayers are not to be allowed to evade taxes by shifting their own liability to some foreign entity.


like I said just becasue you go into a bank does not make you a bank robber same with me just becasue i live in the bahamas in the winter does not make me a tax evader .
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/16/11 08:31 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.








E-Mail us | Site Map | Privacy | Contact





We are proud to be the oldest and continuous provider and publisher of anonymity, asset protection, offshore, privacy, PT, tax avoidance, tax haven and wealth protection products and services in the world - bar none!






How To Pay Us | Introduction | Our Mission | PT Philosophy | Wealth Protection | Testimonials












your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.




There's the difference between you and me. I don't cry and whine and threaten to sue when you call me names. Shows what kinda person you really are doesn't it?


diffrence between calling someone names like you do every post and saying that I am tax evader, when you have aboslutily no proof. some news for you bahamas is not a tax haven they have a treaty with the USA, all earnings in the bahamas and bank recordes are open and reviewed and taxable. Been like that for 8 years now.

so just because I winter in the bahamas does not allow you to call me a tax evader .

It would be like me calling you a bank robber just because you go to a bank.



As usual you are full of crap.



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Bahamas


The Commonwealth of the Bahamas, as they are officially known, is made up of some 700 islands and 2,500 cays or islets scattered over 750 miles of the Atlantic Ocean. This 100,000 sq./mile archipelago begins about 50 miles due east of West Palm Beach, Florida, where Freeport on the island of Grand Bahama is located, and extends lazily some 500 miles sourtheastward, finally ending among the Turks & Caicos Islands [another Caribbean no-tax haven, geographically (but not politically) part of the Bahamas]. Only about 25 of the Bahama islands are inhabited, and three-fourths of the people reside on just two islands – New Providence (where Nassau the Capital is located) and Grand Bahama Island (Freeport).

The Bahamas – The Perfect No-tax Haven

The Bahamas have one of the largest volumes of tax haven business in the world. There is no personal or corporate income tax, no capital gains tax, no withholding tax, no inheritance tax, no death duties, no employment taxes, no sales taxes, and no probate fees in the Bahamas. Corporations, individuals, partnerships, trusts, and estates (including nonresident controlled Bahamian corporations) all enjoy this immunity. The principal source of revenue for the government comes from company registration fees and customs duties.



like always your using old information about 2006 they worked a tax aggremnt with the usa and signed it in 2009 so while they may have little tax they do have a form of VAT

many people who were using it as tax haven left for camans .

THINKING OF BANKING IN THE BAHAMAS AS AN OFFSHORE TAX HAVEN?
THINK AGAIN! Read below for a comparison.
Bahamian banking secrecy is somewhat misleading in that that banking institutions are prohibited from divulging a clients or account holders information to a third party without the clear consent of the account holder (think Americans may have to sign waivers when opening an account) or under a Bahamian court order. The bad part is that banking institutions are freely permitted to divulge that a particular person or company does in fact have an account with that bank. While the bank cannot, according to Bahamian law, divulge specific details or account balances, they certainly can divulge who their account holders are. The Bahamas bank secrecy took a real nosedive in Jan. 2006 when a Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) with the United States took effect. This means wholesale fishing expeditions are a distinct possibility, for example give us a list of every account holder, or this name came up in an investigation give us the records pertaining to this person. No wonder 45% of the deposits have left Bahamas banks since they went to this new legislation that compromises bank secrecy severely.
Bahamas corporations are not Bearer share and thus not anonymous. Interestingly enough a Bahamas LLC can not engage in business in the Bahamas or own real estate in the Bahamas, more negatives.
The Bahamas gets about 5 cruise ships a day on average with each cruise ship averaging about 2500 people. If we figure that each person on average spends $50 at port and that there is a head tax of about $20 per person coming to the Bahamas we can see why the Bahamas compromised their secrecy and privacy. If they didn't they would risk losing their tourism business which employs more people than their banking ever did and also generates more revenue. The Bahamas was once a decent jurisdiction but they sold out to protect their largest industry – tourism. They have large beachfront hotels, gambling casinos, fishing, diving etc all more lucrative than their offshore banking was.
Bahamas fails to provide anything resembling a level of privacy that we require so stay away is our advice.

• Citizens and residents of the United States are taxed on their worldwide income. To help prevent the use of offshore entities for tax evasion or deferral, Congress has enacted several specific provisions in the Internal Revenue Code. Some provisions trigger recognition of gains that would otherwise be deferred. Others deny deferral of tax on income moved offshore.
• The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act was enacted into law on March 18, 2010 and is intended to increase compliance for U.S. persons to report income from offshore accounts.
• Though promoters of offshore schemes often advance technical arguments, which purport to show that their scheme is legal, the intent of Congress remains clear. U.S. taxpayers are not to be allowed to evade taxes by shifting their own liability to some foreign entity.


like I said just becasue you go into a bank does not make you a bank robber same with me just becasue i live in the bahamas in the winter does not make me a tax evader .




So you stay in the Bahamas enough days a year to be considered a legal resident which makes you eligible for your so called low taxes.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/17/11 06:28 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.








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We are proud to be the oldest and continuous provider and publisher of anonymity, asset protection, offshore, privacy, PT, tax avoidance, tax haven and wealth protection products and services in the world - bar none!






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your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.




There's the difference between you and me. I don't cry and whine and threaten to sue when you call me names. Shows what kinda person you really are doesn't it?


diffrence between calling someone names like you do every post and saying that I am tax evader, when you have aboslutily no proof. some news for you bahamas is not a tax haven they have a treaty with the USA, all earnings in the bahamas and bank recordes are open and reviewed and taxable. Been like that for 8 years now.

so just because I winter in the bahamas does not allow you to call me a tax evader .

It would be like me calling you a bank robber just because you go to a bank.



As usual you are full of crap.



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Ids
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Offshore Companies
Order Forms
Passports & Citizenships
Payment Options
Photo Id Cards
Press Pass
Second Passports & Citizenships
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Trusts


Bahamas


The Commonwealth of the Bahamas, as they are officially known, is made up of some 700 islands and 2,500 cays or islets scattered over 750 miles of the Atlantic Ocean. This 100,000 sq./mile archipelago begins about 50 miles due east of West Palm Beach, Florida, where Freeport on the island of Grand Bahama is located, and extends lazily some 500 miles sourtheastward, finally ending among the Turks & Caicos Islands [another Caribbean no-tax haven, geographically (but not politically) part of the Bahamas]. Only about 25 of the Bahama islands are inhabited, and three-fourths of the people reside on just two islands – New Providence (where Nassau the Capital is located) and Grand Bahama Island (Freeport).

The Bahamas – The Perfect No-tax Haven

The Bahamas have one of the largest volumes of tax haven business in the world. There is no personal or corporate income tax, no capital gains tax, no withholding tax, no inheritance tax, no death duties, no employment taxes, no sales taxes, and no probate fees in the Bahamas. Corporations, individuals, partnerships, trusts, and estates (including nonresident controlled Bahamian corporations) all enjoy this immunity. The principal source of revenue for the government comes from company registration fees and customs duties.



like always your using old information about 2006 they worked a tax aggremnt with the usa and signed it in 2009 so while they may have little tax they do have a form of VAT

many people who were using it as tax haven left for camans .

THINKING OF BANKING IN THE BAHAMAS AS AN OFFSHORE TAX HAVEN?
THINK AGAIN! Read below for a comparison.
Bahamian banking secrecy is somewhat misleading in that that banking institutions are prohibited from divulging a clients or account holders information to a third party without the clear consent of the account holder (think Americans may have to sign waivers when opening an account) or under a Bahamian court order. The bad part is that banking institutions are freely permitted to divulge that a particular person or company does in fact have an account with that bank. While the bank cannot, according to Bahamian law, divulge specific details or account balances, they certainly can divulge who their account holders are. The Bahamas bank secrecy took a real nosedive in Jan. 2006 when a Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) with the United States took effect. This means wholesale fishing expeditions are a distinct possibility, for example give us a list of every account holder, or this name came up in an investigation give us the records pertaining to this person. No wonder 45% of the deposits have left Bahamas banks since they went to this new legislation that compromises bank secrecy severely.
Bahamas corporations are not Bearer share and thus not anonymous. Interestingly enough a Bahamas LLC can not engage in business in the Bahamas or own real estate in the Bahamas, more negatives.
The Bahamas gets about 5 cruise ships a day on average with each cruise ship averaging about 2500 people. If we figure that each person on average spends $50 at port and that there is a head tax of about $20 per person coming to the Bahamas we can see why the Bahamas compromised their secrecy and privacy. If they didn't they would risk losing their tourism business which employs more people than their banking ever did and also generates more revenue. The Bahamas was once a decent jurisdiction but they sold out to protect their largest industry – tourism. They have large beachfront hotels, gambling casinos, fishing, diving etc all more lucrative than their offshore banking was.
Bahamas fails to provide anything resembling a level of privacy that we require so stay away is our advice.

• Citizens and residents of the United States are taxed on their worldwide income. To help prevent the use of offshore entities for tax evasion or deferral, Congress has enacted several specific provisions in the Internal Revenue Code. Some provisions trigger recognition of gains that would otherwise be deferred. Others deny deferral of tax on income moved offshore.
• The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act was enacted into law on March 18, 2010 and is intended to increase compliance for U.S. persons to report income from offshore accounts.
• Though promoters of offshore schemes often advance technical arguments, which purport to show that their scheme is legal, the intent of Congress remains clear. U.S. taxpayers are not to be allowed to evade taxes by shifting their own liability to some foreign entity.


like I said just becasue you go into a bank does not make you a bank robber same with me just becasue i live in the bahamas in the winter does not make me a tax evader .




So you stay in the Bahamas enough days a year to be considered a legal resident which makes you eligible for your so called low taxes.


what is your big problem, you are not considered a resident by US tax laws all world income is taxable by the IRS , Bahamas requires a 1.5 million dollar house to become a resident , and even then the IRS tax=x all you world income . and bahamas does not allow non bahamas to work, so what income would I be hiding , we simpily go down and enjoy the warn sunny days by the beach , so how does this all matter , you have no proof of your accusations only your child like mind creating imposible senarios.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/17/11 06:36 AM

So what a few US companies can’t compete, welcome to global economy how many US companies have gone under or moved production to china ,
.
Solar is growing quickly and of course there will be market adjustments , 2 years ago you could hardly buy a panel as demand over ran supply, and prices were 4 dollars a watt , now they are more available and down to 1.30 per w . We all know oil , gas and electrical prices will rise in the next years , then what do we do.
USA is behind the rest of the world in starting to impliment all forms of renewable energy yet we are the world leader in new technology. .

Photovoltaic production has been increasing by an average of more than 20 percent each year since 2002, making it the world’s fastest-growing energy technology. At the end of 2009, the cumulative global PV installations surpassed 21 GW. . Solar PV power stations today have capacities ranging from 10–60 MW although proposed solar PV power stations will have a capacity of 150 MW or more.
World solar photovoltaic (PV) installations were 2.826 GW peak (GWp) in 2007, and 5.95 GW in 2008, 7.5 GW in 2009, and 18.2 GW in 2010. The three leading countries (Germany, Japan and the US) represent nearly 89% of the total worldwide PV installed capacity.
Germany installed a record 3.8 GW of solar PV in 2009; in contrast, the US installed about 500 MW in 2009. The previous record, 2.6 GW, was set by Spain in 2008. Germany was also the fastest growing major PV market in the world from 2006 to 2007 industry observers speculate that Germany could install more than 4.5 GW in 2010. In fact Germany installed 7,25 GW in 2010 The German PV industry generates over 10,000 jobs in production, distribution and installation. By the end of 2006, nearly 88% of all solar PV installations in the EU were in grid-tied applications in Germany
.This technology is changing fast and the countries putting in solar and companies making solar panels are all experincing huge growths and a few will see a downfall, which is typical of any fast growing sector.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/17/11 07:08 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.



Your past practices make you suspect.







E-Mail us | Site Map | Privacy | Contact





We are proud to be the oldest and continuous provider and publisher of anonymity, asset protection, offshore, privacy, PT, tax avoidance, tax haven and wealth protection products and services in the world - bar none!






How To Pay Us | Introduction | Our Mission | PT Philosophy | Wealth Protection | Testimonials












your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.




There's the difference between you and me. I don't cry and whine and threaten to sue when you call me names. Shows what kinda person you really are doesn't it?


diffrence between calling someone names like you do every post and saying that I am tax evader, when you have aboslutily no proof. some news for you bahamas is not a tax haven they have a treaty with the USA, all earnings in the bahamas and bank recordes are open and reviewed and taxable. Been like that for 8 years now.

so just because I winter in the bahamas does not allow you to call me a tax evader .

It would be like me calling you a bank robber just because you go to a bank.



As usual you are full of crap.



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Bahamas


The Commonwealth of the Bahamas, as they are officially known, is made up of some 700 islands and 2,500 cays or islets scattered over 750 miles of the Atlantic Ocean. This 100,000 sq./mile archipelago begins about 50 miles due east of West Palm Beach, Florida, where Freeport on the island of Grand Bahama is located, and extends lazily some 500 miles sourtheastward, finally ending among the Turks & Caicos Islands [another Caribbean no-tax haven, geographically (but not politically) part of the Bahamas]. Only about 25 of the Bahama islands are inhabited, and three-fourths of the people reside on just two islands – New Providence (where Nassau the Capital is located) and Grand Bahama Island (Freeport).

The Bahamas – The Perfect No-tax Haven

The Bahamas have one of the largest volumes of tax haven business in the world. There is no personal or corporate income tax, no capital gains tax, no withholding tax, no inheritance tax, no death duties, no employment taxes, no sales taxes, and no probate fees in the Bahamas. Corporations, individuals, partnerships, trusts, and estates (including nonresident controlled Bahamian corporations) all enjoy this immunity. The principal source of revenue for the government comes from company registration fees and customs duties.



like always your using old information about 2006 they worked a tax aggremnt with the usa and signed it in 2009 so while they may have little tax they do have a form of VAT

many people who were using it as tax haven left for camans .

THINKING OF BANKING IN THE BAHAMAS AS AN OFFSHORE TAX HAVEN?
THINK AGAIN! Read below for a comparison.
Bahamian banking secrecy is somewhat misleading in that that banking institutions are prohibited from divulging a clients or account holders information to a third party without the clear consent of the account holder (think Americans may have to sign waivers when opening an account) or under a Bahamian court order. The bad part is that banking institutions are freely permitted to divulge that a particular person or company does in fact have an account with that bank. While the bank cannot, according to Bahamian law, divulge specific details or account balances, they certainly can divulge who their account holders are. The Bahamas bank secrecy took a real nosedive in Jan. 2006 when a Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) with the United States took effect. This means wholesale fishing expeditions are a distinct possibility, for example give us a list of every account holder, or this name came up in an investigation give us the records pertaining to this person. No wonder 45% of the deposits have left Bahamas banks since they went to this new legislation that compromises bank secrecy severely.
Bahamas corporations are not Bearer share and thus not anonymous. Interestingly enough a Bahamas LLC can not engage in business in the Bahamas or own real estate in the Bahamas, more negatives.
The Bahamas gets about 5 cruise ships a day on average with each cruise ship averaging about 2500 people. If we figure that each person on average spends $50 at port and that there is a head tax of about $20 per person coming to the Bahamas we can see why the Bahamas compromised their secrecy and privacy. If they didn't they would risk losing their tourism business which employs more people than their banking ever did and also generates more revenue. The Bahamas was once a decent jurisdiction but they sold out to protect their largest industry – tourism. They have large beachfront hotels, gambling casinos, fishing, diving etc all more lucrative than their offshore banking was.
Bahamas fails to provide anything resembling a level of privacy that we require so stay away is our advice.

• Citizens and residents of the United States are taxed on their worldwide income. To help prevent the use of offshore entities for tax evasion or deferral, Congress has enacted several specific provisions in the Internal Revenue Code. Some provisions trigger recognition of gains that would otherwise be deferred. Others deny deferral of tax on income moved offshore.
• The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act was enacted into law on March 18, 2010 and is intended to increase compliance for U.S. persons to report income from offshore accounts.
• Though promoters of offshore schemes often advance technical arguments, which purport to show that their scheme is legal, the intent of Congress remains clear. U.S. taxpayers are not to be allowed to evade taxes by shifting their own liability to some foreign entity.


like I said just becasue you go into a bank does not make you a bank robber same with me just becasue i live in the bahamas in the winter does not make me a tax evader .




So you stay in the Bahamas enough days a year to be considered a legal resident which makes you eligible for your so called low taxes.


what is your big problem, you are not considered a resident by US tax laws all world income is taxable by the IRS , Bahamas requires a 1.5 million dollar house to become a resident , and even then the IRS tax=x all you world income . and bahamas does not allow non bahamas to work, so what income would I be hiding , we simpily go down and enjoy the warn sunny days by the beach , so how does this all matter , you have no proof of your accusations only your child like mind creating imposible senarios.




Your past practices make you suspect. Your not a honorable person. If you do things once you will do them again.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/17/11 11:05 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.








E-Mail us | Site Map | Privacy | Contact





We are proud to be the oldest and continuous provider and publisher of anonymity, asset protection, offshore, privacy, PT, tax avoidance, tax haven and wealth protection products and services in the world - bar none!






How To Pay Us | Introduction | Our Mission | PT Philosophy | Wealth Protection | Testimonials












your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.




There's the difference between you and me. I don't cry and whine and threaten to sue when you call me names. Shows what kinda person you really are doesn't it?


diffrence between calling someone names like you do every post and saying that I am tax evader, when you have aboslutily no proof. some news for you bahamas is not a tax haven they have a treaty with the USA, all earnings in the bahamas and bank recordes are open and reviewed and taxable. Been like that for 8 years now.

so just because I winter in the bahamas does not allow you to call me a tax evader .

It would be like me calling you a bank robber just because you go to a bank.



As usual you are full of crap.



About us
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Anonymous Banking
Anonymous GSM Mobile Phone
Asset Production
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Contact Us
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Ids
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International Driving Permit
Maildrops
Merchant Accounts
Offshore Companies
Order Forms
Passports & Citizenships
Payment Options
Photo Id Cards
Press Pass
Second Passports & Citizenships
Secure Order Form
Special Offers
Swiss Bank Accounts
Tip Of The Month
Titles: Noble & Royal
Trusts


Bahamas


The Commonwealth of the Bahamas, as they are officially known, is made up of some 700 islands and 2,500 cays or islets scattered over 750 miles of the Atlantic Ocean. This 100,000 sq./mile archipelago begins about 50 miles due east of West Palm Beach, Florida, where Freeport on the island of Grand Bahama is located, and extends lazily some 500 miles sourtheastward, finally ending among the Turks & Caicos Islands [another Caribbean no-tax haven, geographically (but not politically) part of the Bahamas]. Only about 25 of the Bahama islands are inhabited, and three-fourths of the people reside on just two islands – New Providence (where Nassau the Capital is located) and Grand Bahama Island (Freeport).

The Bahamas – The Perfect No-tax Haven

The Bahamas have one of the largest volumes of tax haven business in the world. There is no personal or corporate income tax, no capital gains tax, no withholding tax, no inheritance tax, no death duties, no employment taxes, no sales taxes, and no probate fees in the Bahamas. Corporations, individuals, partnerships, trusts, and estates (including nonresident controlled Bahamian corporations) all enjoy this immunity. The principal source of revenue for the government comes from company registration fees and customs duties.



like always your using old information about 2006 they worked a tax aggremnt with the usa and signed it in 2009 so while they may have little tax they do have a form of VAT

many people who were using it as tax haven left for camans .

THINKING OF BANKING IN THE BAHAMAS AS AN OFFSHORE TAX HAVEN?
THINK AGAIN! Read below for a comparison.
Bahamian banking secrecy is somewhat misleading in that that banking institutions are prohibited from divulging a clients or account holders information to a third party without the clear consent of the account holder (think Americans may have to sign waivers when opening an account) or under a Bahamian court order. The bad part is that banking institutions are freely permitted to divulge that a particular person or company does in fact have an account with that bank. While the bank cannot, according to Bahamian law, divulge specific details or account balances, they certainly can divulge who their account holders are. The Bahamas bank secrecy took a real nosedive in Jan. 2006 when a Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) with the United States took effect. This means wholesale fishing expeditions are a distinct possibility, for example give us a list of every account holder, or this name came up in an investigation give us the records pertaining to this person. No wonder 45% of the deposits have left Bahamas banks since they went to this new legislation that compromises bank secrecy severely.
Bahamas corporations are not Bearer share and thus not anonymous. Interestingly enough a Bahamas LLC can not engage in business in the Bahamas or own real estate in the Bahamas, more negatives.
The Bahamas gets about 5 cruise ships a day on average with each cruise ship averaging about 2500 people. If we figure that each person on average spends $50 at port and that there is a head tax of about $20 per person coming to the Bahamas we can see why the Bahamas compromised their secrecy and privacy. If they didn't they would risk losing their tourism business which employs more people than their banking ever did and also generates more revenue. The Bahamas was once a decent jurisdiction but they sold out to protect their largest industry – tourism. They have large beachfront hotels, gambling casinos, fishing, diving etc all more lucrative than their offshore banking was.
Bahamas fails to provide anything resembling a level of privacy that we require so stay away is our advice.

• Citizens and residents of the United States are taxed on their worldwide income. To help prevent the use of offshore entities for tax evasion or deferral, Congress has enacted several specific provisions in the Internal Revenue Code. Some provisions trigger recognition of gains that would otherwise be deferred. Others deny deferral of tax on income moved offshore.
• The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act was enacted into law on March 18, 2010 and is intended to increase compliance for U.S. persons to report income from offshore accounts.
• Though promoters of offshore schemes often advance technical arguments, which purport to show that their scheme is legal, the intent of Congress remains clear. U.S. taxpayers are not to be allowed to evade taxes by shifting their own liability to some foreign entity.


like I said just becasue you go into a bank does not make you a bank robber same with me just becasue i live in the bahamas in the winter does not make me a tax evader .




So you stay in the Bahamas enough days a year to be considered a legal resident which makes you eligible for your so called low taxes.
He doesn't live in the Bahamas. You have to remember he's a admitted liar !
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/17/11 11:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.










E-Mail us | Site Map | Privacy | Contact





We are proud to be the oldest and continuous provider and publisher of anonymity, asset protection, offshore, privacy, PT, tax avoidance, tax haven and wealth protection products and services in the world - bar none!






How To Pay Us | Introduction | Our Mission | PT Philosophy | Wealth Protection | Testimonials












your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.




There's the difference between you and me. I don't cry and whine and threaten to sue when you call me names. Shows what kinda person you really are doesn't it?


diffrence between calling someone names like you do every post and saying that I am tax evader, when you have aboslutily no proof. some news for you bahamas is not a tax haven they have a treaty with the USA, all earnings in the bahamas and bank recordes are open and reviewed and taxable. Been like that for 8 years now.

so just because I winter in the bahamas does not allow you to call me a tax evader .

It would be like me calling you a bank robber just because you go to a bank.



As usual you are full of crap.



About us
Anonymity
Anonymous Banking
Anonymous GSM Mobile Phone
Asset Production
Book Store
Citizenship and Resiency Programs
Consultancy Services
Contact Us
Credit Cards
Forfeiture Sales Of Giant U.S. Corp.
How To Pay Offshore-Manual
Ids
Immigration
International Business Company
International Driving Permit
Maildrops
Merchant Accounts
Offshore Companies
Order Forms
Passports & Citizenships
Payment Options
Photo Id Cards
Press Pass
Second Passports & Citizenships
Secure Order Form
Special Offers
Swiss Bank Accounts
Tip Of The Month
Titles: Noble & Royal
Trusts


Bahamas


The Commonwealth of the Bahamas, as they are officially known, is made up of some 700 islands and 2,500 cays or islets scattered over 750 miles of the Atlantic Ocean. This 100,000 sq./mile archipelago begins about 50 miles due east of West Palm Beach, Florida, where Freeport on the island of Grand Bahama is located, and extends lazily some 500 miles sourtheastward, finally ending among the Turks & Caicos Islands [another Caribbean no-tax haven, geographically (but not politically) part of the Bahamas]. Only about 25 of the Bahama islands are inhabited, and three-fourths of the people reside on just two islands – New Providence (where Nassau the Capital is located) and Grand Bahama Island (Freeport).

The Bahamas – The Perfect No-tax Haven

The Bahamas have one of the largest volumes of tax haven business in the world. There is no personal or corporate income tax, no capital gains tax, no withholding tax, no inheritance tax, no death duties, no employment taxes, no sales taxes, and no probate fees in the Bahamas. Corporations, individuals, partnerships, trusts, and estates (including nonresident controlled Bahamian corporations) all enjoy this immunity. The principal source of revenue for the government comes from company registration fees and customs duties.



like always your using old information about 2006 they worked a tax aggremnt with the usa and signed it in 2009 so while they may have little tax they do have a form of VAT

many people who were using it as tax haven left for camans .

THINKING OF BANKING IN THE BAHAMAS AS AN OFFSHORE TAX HAVEN?
THINK AGAIN! Read below for a comparison.
Bahamian banking secrecy is somewhat misleading in that that banking institutions are prohibited from divulging a clients or account holders information to a third party without the clear consent of the account holder (think Americans may have to sign waivers when opening an account) or under a Bahamian court order. The bad part is that banking institutions are freely permitted to divulge that a particular person or company does in fact have an account with that bank. While the bank cannot, according to Bahamian law, divulge specific details or account balances, they certainly can divulge who their account holders are. The Bahamas bank secrecy took a real nosedive in Jan. 2006 when a Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) with the United States took effect. This means wholesale fishing expeditions are a distinct possibility, for example give us a list of every account holder, or this name came up in an investigation give us the records pertaining to this person. No wonder 45% of the deposits have left Bahamas banks since they went to this new legislation that compromises bank secrecy severely.
Bahamas corporations are not Bearer share and thus not anonymous. Interestingly enough a Bahamas LLC can not engage in business in the Bahamas or own real estate in the Bahamas, more negatives.
The Bahamas gets about 5 cruise ships a day on average with each cruise ship averaging about 2500 people. If we figure that each person on average spends $50 at port and that there is a head tax of about $20 per person coming to the Bahamas we can see why the Bahamas compromised their secrecy and privacy. If they didn't they would risk losing their tourism business which employs more people than their banking ever did and also generates more revenue. The Bahamas was once a decent jurisdiction but they sold out to protect their largest industry – tourism. They have large beachfront hotels, gambling casinos, fishing, diving etc all more lucrative than their offshore banking was.
Bahamas fails to provide anything resembling a level of privacy that we require so stay away is our advice.

• Citizens and residents of the United States are taxed on their worldwide income. To help prevent the use of offshore entities for tax evasion or deferral, Congress has enacted several specific provisions in the Internal Revenue Code. Some provisions trigger recognition of gains that would otherwise be deferred. Others deny deferral of tax on income moved offshore.
• The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act was enacted into law on March 18, 2010 and is intended to increase compliance for U.S. persons to report income from offshore accounts.
• Though promoters of offshore schemes often advance technical arguments, which purport to show that their scheme is legal, the intent of Congress remains clear. U.S. taxpayers are not to be allowed to evade taxes by shifting their own liability to some foreign entity.


like I said just becasue you go into a bank does not make you a bank robber same with me just becasue i live in the bahamas in the winter does not make me a tax evader .




So you stay in the Bahamas enough days a year to be considered a legal resident which makes you eligible for your so called low taxes.
He doesn't live in the Bahamas. You have to remember he's a admitted liar !




Watch out for what you say he'll sue. LMAO!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/18/11 11:17 AM

To the Editor:

Area grape growers have survived the demise of the big wineries of the 1980s by planting vinifera grape varieties and starting farm wineries. Our wines are excellent and can compete with any country in the world.

We have worked hard to establish a large tourist industry and last year had 5 million visitors who spent $3 billion. Tourists are our major market for wine as we cannot sell it in grocery stores like other sensible states.

I have been to Pennsylvania and have seen firsthand the damage from the hydraulic fracturing process to the roads and the environment. There is no way tourism and hydrofracking, as it is done in Pennsylvania, can co-exist.

The Finger Lakes are a source of water for 1.5 million residents. If you have any stake in the tourist industry or enjoy pure water and the scenic beauty of the Finger Lakes, make your voice heard.

JIM HAZLITT
President, Sawmill Creek Vineyards
Hector
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/19/11 05:36 AM

August 18, 2011

To the Editor:

Area grape growers have survived the demise of the big wineries of the 1980s by planting vinifera grape varieties and starting farm wineries. Our wines are excellent and can compete with any country in the world.

We have worked hard to establish a large tourist industry and last year had 5 million visitors who spent $3 billion. Tourists are our major market for wine as we cannot sell it in grocery stores like other sensible states.

I have been to Pennsylvania and have seen firsthand the damage from the hydraulic fracturing process to the roads and the environment. There is no way tourism and hydrofracking, as it is done in Pennsylvania, can co-exist.

The Finger Lakes are a source of water for 1.5 million residents. If you have any stake in the tourist industry or enjoy pure water and the scenic beauty of the Finger Lakes, make your voice heard.

JIM HAZLITT
President, Sawmill Creek Vineyards
Hector
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/19/11 06:15 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
August 18, 2011

To the Editor:

Area grape growers have survived the demise of the big wineries of the 1980s by planting vinifera grape varieties and starting farm wineries. Our wines are excellent and can compete with any country in the world.

We have worked hard to establish a large tourist industry and last year had 5 million visitors who spent $3 billion. Tourists are our major market for wine as we cannot sell it in grocery stores like other sensible states.

I have been to Pennsylvania and have seen firsthand the damage from the hydraulic fracturing process to the roads and the environment. There is no way tourism and hydrofracking, as it is done in Pennsylvania, can co-exist.

The Finger Lakes are a source of water for 1.5 million residents. If you have any stake in the tourist industry or enjoy pure water and the scenic beauty of the Finger Lakes, make your voice heard.

JIM HAZLITT
President, Sawmill Creek Vineyards
Hector



His last sentence says it all. He has a stake in tourism. He doesn't care about the rest of us. The road issue is BS. The roads are all repaired by the gas drillers after they are done. Any enviromental problems are taken care of to. You're just beating a old drum to death with the same crap over and over.
Posted by: SportsNut

Re: Frack legislation - 08/19/11 11:40 AM

Hey Kyle you post a letter from a grape grower. That is fine. In the letter he talks about the water for 1.5 million people. I think you need to ask him how much Spray and what kind they use on their grapes. How much of that spray runs off and ends up in the lakes.I think the runoff rate is like 60 percent of the spray applied. As most vineyards on Seneca Lake are with in a couple miles of the lake.They talk about the lakes being clear because of zebra muscles. I wonder how much of that has to do with Copper Sulfate mixed with lime to Bordeaux mixture.As copper sulfate used to be used to clean ponds up, but has been outlawed in NYS. I don't see any grape growers willing to give up spraying their grapes to protect the water of 1.5 million people.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/19/11 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Hey Kyle you post a letter from a grape grower. That is fine. In the letter he talks about the water for 1.5 million people. I think you need to ask him how much Spray and what kind they use on their grapes. How much of that spray runs off and ends up in the lakes.I think the runoff rate is like 60 percent of the spray applied. As most vineyards on Seneca Lake are with in a couple miles of the lake.They talk about the lakes being clear because of zebra muscles. I wonder how much of that has to do with Copper Sulfate mixed with lime to Bordeaux mixture.As copper sulfate used to be used to clean ponds up, but has been outlawed in NYS. I don't see any grape growers willing to give up spraying their grapes to protect the water of 1.5 million people.


The amount of copper sulfate used in the finger lakes is not very large, if they use it and many do not its only applied 4-6 lbs per 100gal which treats about 1 acre. I never like to see extra copper be used but the soil for good grapes needs 15- 25 ppm so some of the spraying is used to up the copper level in the soil. this is a very minor item compared to 40,000 gallons 220,000 lbs of chemicals used each time they frack a well . if they frack the well 3 times which can happen ,its 660,000 lbs of chemicals. All the copper sulfate used in finger lakes may be a few thousand pounds.
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: Frack legislation - 08/19/11 11:37 PM

Quote:
Bahamas requires a 1.5 million dollar house to become a resident


Go to Ecuador. It's a $25,000 house or $25,000 bank cd.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 06:02 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Hey Kyle you post a letter from a grape grower. That is fine. In the letter he talks about the water for 1.5 million people. I think you need to ask him how much Spray and what kind they use on their grapes. How much of that spray runs off and ends up in the lakes.I think the runoff rate is like 60 percent of the spray applied. As most vineyards on Seneca Lake are with in a couple miles of the lake.They talk about the lakes being clear because of zebra muscles. I wonder how much of that has to do with Copper Sulfate mixed with lime to Bordeaux mixture.As copper sulfate used to be used to clean ponds up, but has been outlawed in NYS. I don't see any grape growers willing to give up spraying their grapes to protect the water of 1.5 million people.
The amount of copper sulfate used in the finger lakes is not very large, if they use it and many do not its only applied 4-6 lbs per 100gal which treats about 1 acre. I never like to see extra copper be used but the soil for good grapes needs 15- 25 ppm so some of the spraying is used to up the copper level in the soil. this is a very minor item compared to 40,000 gallons 220,000 lbs of chemicals used each time they frack a well . if they frack the well 3 times which can happen ,its 660,000 lbs of chemicals. All the copper sulfate used in finger lakes may be a few thousand pounds.
Thanks pixie, it is so good to have your scientific expertise on here.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 06:17 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Hey Kyle you post a letter from a grape grower. That is fine. In the letter he talks about the water for 1.5 million people. I think you need to ask him how much Spray and what kind they use on their grapes. How much of that spray runs off and ends up in the lakes.I think the runoff rate is like 60 percent of the spray applied. As most vineyards on Seneca Lake are with in a couple miles of the lake.They talk about the lakes being clear because of zebra muscles. I wonder how much of that has to do with Copper Sulfate mixed with lime to Bordeaux mixture.As copper sulfate used to be used to clean ponds up, but has been outlawed in NYS. I don't see any grape growers willing to give up spraying their grapes to protect the water of 1.5 million people.
The amount of copper sulfate used in the finger lakes is not very large, if they use it and many do not its only applied 4-6 lbs per 100gal which treats about 1 acre. I never like to see extra copper be used but the soil for good grapes needs 15- 25 ppm so some of the spraying is used to up the copper level in the soil. this is a very minor item compared to 40,000 gallons 220,000 lbs of chemicals used each time they frack a well . if they frack the well 3 times which can happen ,its 660,000 lbs of chemicals. All the copper sulfate used in finger lakes may be a few thousand pounds.
Thanks pixie, it is so good to have your scientific expertise on here.



As usual his figures are wrong and people like you Kyle don't know any better. Kyle you're just so gullable.
The correct figure is approximately 8.4 lbs per 100 gal. You know pixie dust is going to stay on the very low end to make his case look better.




Preparation of Bordeaux Mixture
Bordeaux mixture is prepared in various strengths from copper sulphate, hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide) and water. The conventional method of describing its composition is to give the weight of copper sulphate, the weight of hydrated lime and the volume of water in that order. The percentage of the weight of copper sulphate to the weight of water employed determines the concentration of the Bordeaux mixture. Thus a 1% Bordeaux mixture, which is the normal, would have the formula 1 :1:100the first 1 representing 1 kg copper sulphate, the second representing 1 kg hydrated lime, and the 100 representing 100 litres (100 kg) water. As copper sulphate contains 25% copper metal, the copper content of a 1% Bordeaux mixture would be 0-25 % copper. The quantity of lime used can be reduced considerably. Actually 1 kg copper sulphate requires only 0.225 kg of chemically pure hydrated lime to precipitate all the copper. Good proprietary brands of hydrated lime are now freely available but, as even these deteriorate on storage, it is safest not to exceed a ratio of 2:1. i.e. a 1:0.5:100 mixture.

In preparing Bordeaux mixture, the copper sulphate is dissolved in half the required amount of water in a wooden or plastic vessel. The hydrated lime is mixed with the balance of the water in another vessel. The two "solutions" are then poured together through a strainer into a third vessel or spray tank.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 06:32 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
As usual his figures are wrong and people like you Kyle don't know any better. Kyle you're just so gullable.
The correct figure is approximately 8.4 lbs per 100 gal. You know pixie dust is going to stay on the very low end to make his case look better.
It still seems very very low compared to chemicals used in fracking.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 07:44 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
As usual his figures are wrong and people like you Kyle don't know any better. Kyle you're just so gullable.
The correct figure is approximately 8.4 lbs per 100 gal. You know pixie dust is going to stay on the very low end to make his case look better.
It still seems very very low compared to chemicals used in fracking.




Copper sulfate is very very toxic even at small quanities. The runoff going in the lake is not a very good situation. Another thing to remember about frack water is its 98% water. Currently 50% is being recycled and reused. That number will increase as better technology is developed.
Posted by: SportsNut

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 07:59 AM

Pixie and Kyle, you two say the amount is low. Well most of the growers spray there grapes once a week.So the copper going in the ground and run off from late May till Aug, times the number of acres of grapes around Seneca Lake. Seems to none of this spray is recovered or recycled and 60 percent of it goes into the ground and the lake.Also

Also Pixie Copper and Copper Sulfate are two different chemicals. Copper is applied to the ground and works best if the ground is tilled..Copper Sulfate is applied as a spray.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 02:02 PM

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/19/7419399-what-if-et-thinks-were-evil

What if E.T. thinks we're evil?

"The possibility of harmful contact with ETI suggests that we may use some caution for METI [sending messages to extaterrestrial intelligence]," the researchers write. "Given that we have already altered our environment in ways that may be viewed as unethical by universalist ETI, it may be prudent to avoid sending any message that shows evidence of our negative environmental impact. The chemical composition of Earth's atmosphere over recent time may be a poor choice for a message because it would show a rapid accumulation of carbon dioxide from human activity. Likewise, any message that indicates widespread loss of biodiversity or rapid rates of expansion may be dangerous if received by such universalist ETI."
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 09:01 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
As usual his figures are wrong and people like you Kyle don't know any better. Kyle you're just so gullable.
The correct figure is approximately 8.4 lbs per 100 gal. You know pixie dust is going to stay on the very low end to make his case look better.
It still seems very very low compared to chemicals used in fracking.




Copper sulfate is very very toxic even at small quanities. The runoff going in the lake is not a very good situation. Another thing to remember about frack water is its 98% water. Currently 50% is being recycled and reused. That number will increase as better technology is developed.


Answer its not as toxic as you try to show .
Copper in some forms can be toxic in other forms like copper sulfate is sold at health stores . although I would not take it.

.
There are three very broad classifications for all the types of toxicity of the 5,050 entries in the Hazardous
Chemicals Desk Reference. Copper sulfate is listed in Level 3. Level 3 specifies that toxicity has been
reported at doses somewhere less than 2,800 mg. It is important to note that 2,800 mg is 1,400 times
greater than the 2 mg RDA dose contained in daily vitamin formulas.
.
The MSDS lists copper sulfate as a 2 which is only moderate risk.
Many products contain copper sulfide such as wine .
What do do with mercaptans and sulfides in completely fermented wine:
Use extended lees contact, but manage it carefully, and stir regularly.Use copper sulfate to treat H2S or mercaptan problems as soon as you sense a problem in your wine. If not treated promptly mercaptans can become disulfides which are less easy to detect but which can become mercaptans again later in the absence of oxygen.
For the off odors of disulfides that resist copper, try reducing them back to mercaptans for copper treatment. Be prepared for failure.


Health. Copper is a heavy metal, and although it does not accumulate in the body, too much is considered hazardous. Regulation in Europe permit only 0.2mg/L copper in wine; in the US it is 0.5mg/L. This may be a little more caution that is necessary for health. Multi-vitamins can contain daily doses of copper many times this level, and the WHO says 10-12 mg is probably safe on a daily basis. However, it makes sense not to put more copper in your wine than is necessary to do the job. And it usually doesn't take much.

I can not answer the number of times its used on every wine grower I know many do not use it , and I also know its not used in the spring and fall near harvest . but no matter it’s still a billion times less then well fracking in PA
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 09:09 PM

Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Pixie and Kyle, you two say the amount is low. Well most of the growers spray there grapes once a week.So the copper going in the ground and run off from late May till Aug, times the number of acres of grapes around Seneca Lake. Seems to none of this spray is recovered or recycled and 60 percent of it goes into the ground and the lake.Also

Also Pixie Copper and Copper Sulfate are two different chemicals. Copper is applied to the ground and works best if the ground is tilled..Copper Sulfate is applied as a spray.


I am aware what copper , copper sulfate, copper Pentahydrate, Copper hydroxide, copper oxychloride copper sulfide and copper oxide, copper carbonate is and how they react with other chemicals and there toxicity , and there use , If you applied solid copper powder it would have to react with the acidity in the soil and water before it can convert to cu+++ ions required to bind with the organics. Where copper oxide or copper sulfate or copper hydroxide will dissolve faster with no run off past where you apply it.
Copper sulfate is highly water soluble-that is, it dissolves very easily in water-the copper ions are strongly adsorbed or precipitated to soil particles when it is applied , so the copper sulfate quickly converts to copper ions to bind with the soil . 99 percent if not all of the copper sulfate sprayed on wine bushes would not make the lake as it is so mobile ie water soluble and dissolved quickly into soils and easily attached to organics in the soil. After desolved It is then difficult to release copper back into water as it is a copper +++ ion so it tends to stay put in the area sprayed. As a note I do not agree with spraying copper sulfate on grapes but it is a mere tiny finitely small drop in the bucket compared to the trillions of gallons used in PA alone to frack wells.
.
Just because one industry may pollute does not give free right for others to do so a billion times more.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Hey Kyle you post a letter from a grape grower. That is fine. In the letter he talks about the water for 1.5 million people. I think you need to ask him how much Spray and what kind they use on their grapes. How much of that spray runs off and ends up in the lakes.I think the runoff rate is like 60 percent of the spray applied. As most vineyards on Seneca Lake are with in a couple miles of the lake.They talk about the lakes being clear because of zebra muscles. I wonder how much of that has to do with Copper Sulfate mixed with lime to Bordeaux mixture.As copper sulfate used to be used to clean ponds up, but has been outlawed in NYS. I don't see any grape growers willing to give up spraying their grapes to protect the water of 1.5 million people.
The amount of copper sulfate used in the finger lakes is not very large, if they use it and many do not its only applied 4-6 lbs per 100gal which treats about 1 acre. I never like to see extra copper be used but the soil for good grapes needs 15- 25 ppm so some of the spraying is used to up the copper level in the soil. this is a very minor item compared to 40,000 gallons 220,000 lbs of chemicals used each time they frack a well . if they frack the well 3 times which can happen ,its 660,000 lbs of chemicals. All the copper sulfate used in finger lakes may be a few thousand pounds.
Thanks pixie, it is so good to have your scientific expertise on here.



As usual his figures are wrong and people like you Kyle don't know any better. Kyle you're just so gullable.
The correct figure is approximately 8.4 lbs per 100 gal. You know pixie dust is going to stay on the very low end to make his case look better.




Preparation of Bordeaux Mixture
Bordeaux mixture is prepared in various strengths from copper sulphate, hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide) and water. The conventional method of describing its composition is to give the weight of copper sulphate, the weight of hydrated lime and the volume of water in that order. The percentage of the weight of copper sulphate to the weight of water employed determines the concentration of the Bordeaux mixture. Thus a 1% Bordeaux mixture, which is the normal, would have the formula 1 :1:100the first 1 representing 1 kg copper sulphate, the second representing 1 kg hydrated lime, and the 100 representing 100 litres (100 kg) water. As copper sulphate contains 25% copper metal, the copper content of a 1% Bordeaux mixture would be 0-25 % copper. The quantity of lime used can be reduced considerably. Actually 1 kg copper sulphate requires only 0.225 kg of chemically pure hydrated lime to precipitate all the copper. Good proprietary brands of hydrated lime are now freely available but, as even these deteriorate on storage, it is safest not to exceed a ratio of 2:1. i.e. a 1:0.5:100 mixture.

In preparing Bordeaux mixture, the copper sulphate is dissolved in half the required amount of water in a wooden or plastic vessel. The hydrated lime is mixed with the balance of the water in another vessel. The two "solutions" are then poured together through a strainer into a third vessel or spray tank.





Your data at 8.4 lb/100 gal is a old Bordeaux mixture and normally not used in NY instead they use a new formula such as Champion WP is 77% copper hydroxide. It is generally applied to vegetables at a rate of 0.5 – 5.0 lbs/acre depending on the crop, with a common rate of 2 lbs./acre (Champion WP product label). This wide range of allowable rates is in part due to the phytotoxic effects copper can have on some plants. The higher rates will provide more control, but will also increase chances for phytotoxicity.
.

Maximum soil concentration rates for copper in New York soils have been recommended based on soil type, from 40 ppm (sandy soils) to 60 ppm (silt loam) to 100 ppm (clay soils) in order to protect against phytotoxicity and negative impacts on soil life (Harrison et al. 1999). Typically, each spray with a copper-based fungicide results in an application of 1 to 4 lb. of copper per acre (raising the topsoil concentration from 0.5 to 2 ppm), and often several copper sprays are made per season. Thus, under a heavy copper spray program, toxic topsoil levels could be reached in a matter of decades. Some certifiers recommend that growers include copper in their soil testing in order to determine a background level and track any changes in that level as a consequence of repeated copper spraying. Due to the mobility rate which changes to copper +++ ions and absorbed very quickily by the soil and organics very little to none would make it to the lakes.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
Bahamas requires a 1.5 million dollar house to become a resident


Go to Ecuador. It's a $25,000 house or $25,000 bank cd.


true but add a body guard with a m16.

besides who wants to be a resident I only want to sit on the beach and go fishing in the winter instead of frezzing my butt off up north.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
so now its ok for you to call pepole names all the time but when some one stands up to the big bad bully you get ticked. thought you had to work two jobs to make ends meet what you doing playing on the computer at work.



I do work two jobs. Never would be on the forums at work.



Your past practices make you suspect.







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your a troll on ever forum all the time it would be hard to tell your not at work. go ahead the boss is not looking , oh yea your right they dont have internet in the garbage picking bin. guess your not at work.




There's the difference between you and me. I don't cry and whine and threaten to sue when you call me names. Shows what kinda person you really are doesn't it?


diffrence between calling someone names like you do every post and saying that I am tax evader, when you have aboslutily no proof. some news for you bahamas is not a tax haven they have a treaty with the USA, all earnings in the bahamas and bank recordes are open and reviewed and taxable. Been like that for 8 years now.

so just because I winter in the bahamas does not allow you to call me a tax evader .

It would be like me calling you a bank robber just because you go to a bank.



As usual you are full of crap.



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Bahamas


The Commonwealth of the Bahamas, as they are officially known, is made up of some 700 islands and 2,500 cays or islets scattered over 750 miles of the Atlantic Ocean. This 100,000 sq./mile archipelago begins about 50 miles due east of West Palm Beach, Florida, where Freeport on the island of Grand Bahama is located, and extends lazily some 500 miles sourtheastward, finally ending among the Turks & Caicos Islands [another Caribbean no-tax haven, geographically (but not politically) part of the Bahamas]. Only about 25 of the Bahama islands are inhabited, and three-fourths of the people reside on just two islands – New Providence (where Nassau the Capital is located) and Grand Bahama Island (Freeport).

The Bahamas – The Perfect No-tax Haven

The Bahamas have one of the largest volumes of tax haven business in the world. There is no personal or corporate income tax, no capital gains tax, no withholding tax, no inheritance tax, no death duties, no employment taxes, no sales taxes, and no probate fees in the Bahamas. Corporations, individuals, partnerships, trusts, and estates (including nonresident controlled Bahamian corporations) all enjoy this immunity. The principal source of revenue for the government comes from company registration fees and customs duties.



like always your using old information about 2006 they worked a tax aggremnt with the usa and signed it in 2009 so while they may have little tax they do have a form of VAT

many people who were using it as tax haven left for camans .

THINKING OF BANKING IN THE BAHAMAS AS AN OFFSHORE TAX HAVEN?
THINK AGAIN! Read below for a comparison.
Bahamian banking secrecy is somewhat misleading in that that banking institutions are prohibited from divulging a clients or account holders information to a third party without the clear consent of the account holder (think Americans may have to sign waivers when opening an account) or under a Bahamian court order. The bad part is that banking institutions are freely permitted to divulge that a particular person or company does in fact have an account with that bank. While the bank cannot, according to Bahamian law, divulge specific details or account balances, they certainly can divulge who their account holders are. The Bahamas bank secrecy took a real nosedive in Jan. 2006 when a Tax Information Exchange Agreement (TIEA) with the United States took effect. This means wholesale fishing expeditions are a distinct possibility, for example give us a list of every account holder, or this name came up in an investigation give us the records pertaining to this person. No wonder 45% of the deposits have left Bahamas banks since they went to this new legislation that compromises bank secrecy severely.
Bahamas corporations are not Bearer share and thus not anonymous. Interestingly enough a Bahamas LLC can not engage in business in the Bahamas or own real estate in the Bahamas, more negatives.
The Bahamas gets about 5 cruise ships a day on average with each cruise ship averaging about 2500 people. If we figure that each person on average spends $50 at port and that there is a head tax of about $20 per person coming to the Bahamas we can see why the Bahamas compromised their secrecy and privacy. If they didn't they would risk losing their tourism business which employs more people than their banking ever did and also generates more revenue. The Bahamas was once a decent jurisdiction but they sold out to protect their largest industry – tourism. They have large beachfront hotels, gambling casinos, fishing, diving etc all more lucrative than their offshore banking was.
Bahamas fails to provide anything resembling a level of privacy that we require so stay away is our advice.

• Citizens and residents of the United States are taxed on their worldwide income. To help prevent the use of offshore entities for tax evasion or deferral, Congress has enacted several specific provisions in the Internal Revenue Code. Some provisions trigger recognition of gains that would otherwise be deferred. Others deny deferral of tax on income moved offshore.
• The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act was enacted into law on March 18, 2010 and is intended to increase compliance for U.S. persons to report income from offshore accounts.
• Though promoters of offshore schemes often advance technical arguments, which purport to show that their scheme is legal, the intent of Congress remains clear. U.S. taxpayers are not to be allowed to evade taxes by shifting their own liability to some foreign entity.


like I said just becasue you go into a bank does not make you a bank robber same with me just becasue i live in the bahamas in the winter does not make me a tax evader .




So you stay in the Bahamas enough days a year to be considered a legal resident which makes you eligible for your so called low taxes.


what is your big problem, you are not considered a resident by US tax laws all world income is taxable by the IRS , Bahamas requires a 1.5 million dollar house to become a resident , and even then the IRS tax=x all you world income . and bahamas does not allow non bahamas to work, so what income would I be hiding , we simpily go down and enjoy the warn sunny days by the beach , so how does this all matter , you have no proof of your accusations only your child like mind creating imposible senarios.




Your past practices make you suspect. Your not a honorable person. If you do things once you will do them again.


yea and your a fracking idiot with a big mouth and small brain .
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 10:31 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
Bahamas requires a 1.5 million dollar house to become a resident


Go to Ecuador. It's a $25,000 house or $25,000 bank cd.


true but add a body guard with a m16.

besides who wants to be a resident I only want to sit on the beach and go fishing in the winter instead of frezzing my butt off up north.



I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 10:37 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
Bahamas requires a 1.5 million dollar house to become a resident


Go to Ecuador. It's a $25,000 house or $25,000 bank cd.


true but add a body guard with a m16.

besides who wants to be a resident I only want to sit on the beach and go fishing in the winter instead of frezzing my butt off up north.



I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!













running off your dumb mouth again, you know nothing about my life
. little diaper picker.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/20/11 10:40 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
Bahamas requires a 1.5 million dollar house to become a resident


Go to Ecuador. It's a $25,000 house or $25,000 bank cd.


true but add a body guard with a m16.

besides who wants to be a resident I only want to sit on the beach and go fishing in the winter instead of frezzing my butt off up north.



I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!













running off your dumb mouth again, you know nothing about my life
. little diaper picker.




You can call me all your childish names you want it goes to show what kind of person you are. As far as knowing you, you might be surprised what I know. Your past will follow you forever. Remember that.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/21/11 06:11 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
I note pixie spends summers here in case "somebody" wanted him. ;\)
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/21/11 07:06 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
I note pixie spends summers here in case "somebody" wanted him. ;\)




Why do you think he's wanted. What gives you that idea?
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/21/11 08:29 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
I note pixie spends summers here in case "somebody" wanted him. ;\)
Why do you think he's wanted. What gives you that idea?
You do.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/21/11 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
I note pixie spends summers here in case "somebody" wanted him. ;\)
Why do you think he's wanted. What gives you that idea?
You do.




Show me where I said that? You lie more than your brother Pixie.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 07:27 AM

Largest solar-photovoltaic facility on public lands to create over 600 jobs, inject $336 million into local economy
Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar approved last week the Desert Sunlight Solar Farm, a 550-megawatt (MW) solar power project to be built in the California desert east of Palm Springs. The solar-photovoltaic facility will create more than 630 jobs at peak construction and infuse an estimated $336 million into the local economy. When built, Desert Sunlight will generate enough energy to power over 165,000 homes.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 11:30 AM

A solar installation believed to be the nation’s largest for a government-sponsored affordable housing project features high-performance photovoltaic panels from SolarWorld, the largest U.S. solar manufacturer for more than 35 years. The 2-megawatt project owned and operated by the Housing Authority of the County of Santa Barbara (HACSB) will bring the energy- and cost-saving benefits of solar technology to more than 1,000 low-income families in the California county.

HACSB will unveil the project today at a ribbon-cutting ceremony at the L.C. Grossman Homes complex in Goleta, a community just north of the city of Santa Barbara. The ambitious solar installation encompasses 21 sites around the county, 250 separate structures, five municipal permitting jurisdictions and three utilities. All told, more than 7,200 SolarWorld panels will offset 100 percent of the energy consumption of 863 units of affordable housing, including both tenant and common areas, and trim power costs for both HACSB and residents.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 01:12 PM

What was the cost???
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 03:16 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
Bahamas requires a 1.5 million dollar house to become a resident

Go to Ecuador. It's a $25,000 house or $25,000 bank cd.
true but add a body guard with a m16.

besides who wants to be a resident I only want to sit on the beach and go fishing in the winter instead of frezzing my butt off up north.
I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
This exchange is indicating to me that brainman is suggesting that if pixie came back to US he might be in trouble with the law.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
Bahamas requires a 1.5 million dollar house to become a resident

Go to Ecuador. It's a $25,000 house or $25,000 bank cd.
true but add a body guard with a m16.

besides who wants to be a resident I only want to sit on the beach and go fishing in the winter instead of frezzing my butt off up north.
I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
This exchange is indicating to me that brainman is suggesting that if pixie came back to US he might be in trouble with the law.




That's your theory and we all know how good they are don't
we?
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Largest solar-photovoltaic facility on public lands to create over 600 jobs, inject $336 million into local economy
Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar approved last week the Desert Sunlight Solar Farm, a 550-megawatt (MW) solar power project to be built in the California desert east of Palm Springs. The solar-photovoltaic facility will create more than 630 jobs at peak construction and infuse an estimated $336 million into the local economy. When built, Desert Sunlight will generate enough energy to power over 165,000 homes.



I wonder how come he edited the article and left this out? Any ideas?


Desert Sunlight is the beneficiary of a conditional loan guarantee commitment of $1.88 billion, which was announced in June by the US Department of Energy.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
A solar installation believed to be the nation’s largest for a government-sponsored affordable housing project features high-performance photovoltaic panels from SolarWorld, the largest U.S. solar manufacturer for more than 35 years. The 2-megawatt project owned and operated by the Housing Authority of the County of Santa Barbara (HACSB) will bring the energy- and cost-saving benefits of solar technology to more than 1,000 low-income families in the California county.

HACSB will unveil the project today at a ribbon-cutting ceremony at the L.C. Grossman Homes complex in Goleta, a community just north of the city of Santa Barbara. The ambitious solar installation encompasses 21 sites around the county, 250 separate structures, five municipal permitting jurisdictions and three utilities. All told, more than 7,200 SolarWorld panels will offset 100 percent of the energy consumption of 863 units of affordable housing, including both tenant and common areas, and trim power costs for both HACSB and residents.





I wonder how many billions of taxpayer money is going into this project? Not economicly feasible at all despite what the great one portrays.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
besides who wants to be a resident I only want to sit on the beach and go fishing in the winter instead of frezzing my butt off up north.
I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
This exchange is indicating to me that brainman is suggesting that if pixie came back to US he might be in trouble with the law.
That's your theory and we all know how good they are don't we?
Yup. That is what I think. Why don't you explain what you meant if I am wrong?
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
besides who wants to be a resident I only want to sit on the beach and go fishing in the winter instead of frezzing my butt off up north.
I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
This exchange is indicating to me that brainman is suggesting that if pixie came back to US he might be in trouble with the law.
That's your theory and we all know how good they are don't we?
Yup. That is what I think. Why don't you explain what you meant if I am wrong?



. now im being accused of being in trouble with the law where do you dream all this up braindead . I think you would be advised to keep your fracking mouth shut.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 04:36 PM

Hydraulic fracturing involves injecting water, sand, and a cocktail of chemicals at high pressure into rock formations thousands of feet below the surface. The chemicals that make up that fracking fluid are cause for concern. They may include, among other things, barium, strontium, benzene, glycol-ethers, toluene, 2-(2-methoxyethoxy) ethanol, and nonylphenols.

Drillers got the safe drinking water exemption by convincing Congress that fracking fluids are ultimately removed from the shale formations into which they are pumped. But recent evidence suggest otherwise. A ProPublica investigation recently purported that “as much as 85 percent of the fluids used during hydraulic fracturing is being left underground after wells are drilled in the Marcellus Shale.” Likewise, the water treatment company ProChem Tech reported that “generally 10 to 20% is recovered.”
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
besides who wants to be a resident I only want to sit on the beach and go fishing in the winter instead of frezzing my butt off up north.
I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
This exchange is indicating to me that brainman is suggesting that if pixie came back to US he might be in trouble with the law.
That's your theory and we all know how good they are don't we?
Yup. That is what I think. Why don't you explain what you meant if I am wrong?


Once again you're a big liar. Where did I say he was wanted by the law? I never said that. I asked if his business was registered in the Bahamas to take advantage of Bahamas tax laws which are very lenient. If he's American his business should be registered here and not try and evade American taxes by registering in the Bahamas. Nice try though!
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 04:54 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
besides who wants to be a resident I only want to sit on the beach and go fishing in the winter instead of frezzing my butt off up north.
I don't think that's the only reason you are in the Bahamas!
This exchange is indicating to me that brainman is suggesting that if pixie came back to US he might be in trouble with the law.
That's your theory and we all know how good they are don't we?
Yup. That is what I think. Why don't you explain what you meant if I am wrong?






. now im being accused of being in trouble with the law where do you dream all this up braindead . I think you would be advised to keep your fracking mouth shut.



I never accused you of being in trouble with the law. That's your sheep Kyles theory.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 04:58 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Hydraulic fracturing involves injecting water, sand, and a cocktail of chemicals at high pressure into rock formations thousands of feet below the surface. The chemicals that make up that fracking fluid are cause for concern. They may include, among other things, barium, strontium, benzene, glycol-ethers, toluene, 2-(2-methoxyethoxy) ethanol, and nonylphenols.

Drillers got the safe drinking water exemption by convincing Congress that fracking fluids are ultimately removed from the shale formations into which they are pumped. But recent evidence suggest otherwise. A ProPublica investigation recently purported that “as much as 85 percent of the fluids used during hydraulic fracturing is being left underground after wells are drilled in the Marcellus Shale.” Likewise, the water treatment company ProChem Tech reported that “generally 10 to 20% is recovered.”



Tell the whole story. The chemicals are less than 1% of the fluid and they are injected thousands of feet underground. No where near the water table.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 08:34 PM

Kyle you and your father Pixie are real credible. You accuse me of saying things and then when I say prove it, you both run with your tale between your legs. Typical for people like you two, you can't prove a thing.
Posted by: Mean Gene

Re: Frack legislation - 08/22/11 10:23 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Kyle you and your father Pixie are real credible. You accuse me of saying things and then when I say prove it, you both run with your tale between your legs. Typical for people like you two, you can't prove a thing.



Thats quite a "tale" you are spinning, and its not between anyones legs. \:\)
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 05:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Mean Gene
Originally Posted By: brainman
Kyle you and your father Pixie are real credible. You accuse me of saying things and then when I say prove it, you both run with your tale between your legs. Typical for people like you two, you can't prove a thing.



Thats quite a "tale" you are spinning, and its not between anyones legs. \:\)




I think you should clean up your own family before you worry about anybody elses. Guess you won't win father of the year will you?
Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.
Posted by: s2hphoto.com

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 05:54 AM

WOOO HOOOO Frack Away people!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$


Halliburton executive takes a swig of hydrofracking fluid to prove its safety

During a keynote lunch speech at the conference presented by the Colorado Oil and Gas Association, Halliburton Co. CEO Dave Lesar talked about addressing public concerns about hydraulic fracturing, which extracts natural gas by blasting a mix of water, chemicals and sand underground.

He raised a container of Halliburton’s new fracking fluid made from materials sourced from the food industry, then called up a fellow executive to demonstrate how safe it was by drinking it, according to two attendees. The executive mocked reluctance, then took a swig.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/halliburton_executive_takes_a.html
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 06:57 AM

Originally Posted By: s2hphoto.com
WOOO HOOOO Frack Away people!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$


Halliburton executive takes a swig of hydrofracking fluid to prove its safety

During a keynote lunch speech at the conference presented by the Colorado Oil and Gas Association, Halliburton Co. CEO Dave Lesar talked about addressing public concerns about hydraulic fracturing, which extracts natural gas by blasting a mix of water, chemicals and sand underground.

He raised a container of Halliburton’s new fracking fluid made from materials sourced from the food industry, then called up a fellow executive to demonstrate how safe it was by drinking it, according to two attendees. The executive mocked reluctance, then took a swig.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/halliburton_executive_takes_a.html




What's Kyle and Pixie going to cry and whine about now!
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 10:01 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: s2hphoto.com
WOOO HOOOO Frack Away people!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$


Halliburton executive takes a swig of hydrofracking fluid to prove its safety

During a keynote lunch speech at the conference presented by the Colorado Oil and Gas Association, Halliburton Co. CEO Dave Lesar talked about addressing public concerns about hydraulic fracturing, which extracts natural gas by blasting a mix of water, chemicals and sand underground.

He raised a container of Halliburton’s new fracking fluid made from materials sourced from the food industry, then called up a fellow executive to demonstrate how safe it was by drinking it, according to two attendees. The executive mocked reluctance, then took a swig.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/halliburton_executive_takes_a.html




What's Kyle and Pixie going to cry and whine about now!


Wow that means the crazy activists won another round, our campaining and emails and letters has caused the fracking kings to hear our complaints and react , which means the existing and old fracking chemicals were dangerious and they knew it. If the old fracking fluid was safe then why would they spend money and research and change to safer green fracking fluid . wow we won yeaaaaa.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 10:03 AM


I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .

Etrion completes Nettuno Solar Park In Italy




Tuesday, 23 August 2011 06:21
Etrion Corp., an independent solar power producer, has said that the Nettuno solar park in Lazio, Italy, has reached completion.

The Nettuno park has a total capacity of 2.6 MW and is expected to produce more than 3.5 GWh of electricity annually, according to Etrion's calculations. The plant is also expected to generate approximately 1 million euros of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization annually. It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.

A syndicate of banks, including Natixis, WestLB and Mediocreval, provided more than 84% of the financing for the project with an 18-year nonrecourse loan.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 10:05 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Kyle you and your father Pixie are real credible. You accuse me of saying things and then when I say prove it, you both run with your tale between your legs. Typical for people like you two, you can't prove a thing.



who is running SAME WELLPAD

the only thing running is your big mouth.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 10:08 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Hydraulic fracturing involves injecting water, sand, and a cocktail of chemicals at high pressure into rock formations thousands of feet below the surface. The chemicals that make up that fracking fluid are cause for concern. They may include, among other things, barium, strontium, benzene, glycol-ethers, toluene, 2-(2-methoxyethoxy) ethanol, and nonylphenols.

Drillers got the safe drinking water exemption by convincing Congress that fracking fluids are ultimately removed from the shale formations into which they are pumped. But recent evidence suggest otherwise. A ProPublica investigation recently purported that “as much as 85 percent of the fluids used during hydraulic fracturing is being left underground after wells are drilled in the Marcellus Shale.” Likewise, the water treatment company ProChem Tech reported that “generally 10 to 20% is recovered.”



Tell the whole story. The chemicals are less than 1% of the fluid and they are injected thousands of feet underground. No where near the water table.


Except when they spill on the ground and because they cannot be properly removed for the 20 percent recovered .
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 10:14 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: s2hphoto.com
WOOO HOOOO Frack Away people!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$


Halliburton executive takes a swig of hydrofracking fluid to prove its safety

During a keynote lunch speech at the conference presented by the Colorado Oil and Gas Association, Halliburton Co. CEO Dave Lesar talked about addressing public concerns about hydraulic fracturing, which extracts natural gas by blasting a mix of water, chemicals and sand underground.

He raised a container of Halliburton’s new fracking fluid made from materials sourced from the food industry, then called up a fellow executive to demonstrate how safe it was by drinking it, according to two attendees. The executive mocked reluctance, then took a swig.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/08/halliburton_executive_takes_a.html




What's Kyle and Pixie going to cry and whine about now!


Wow that means the crazy activists won another round, our campaining and emails and letters has caused the fracking kings to hear our complaints and react , which means the existing and old fracking chemicals were dangerious and they knew it. If the old fracking fluid was safe then why would they spend money and research and change to safer green fracking fluid . wow we won yeaaaaa.




DUH! How about cheaper to handle and won't require all the containment safeguards.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie

I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .

Etrion completes Nettuno Solar Park In Italy




Tuesday, 23 August 2011 06:21
Etrion Corp., an independent solar power producer, has said that the Nettuno solar park in Lazio, Italy, has reached completion.

The Nettuno park has a total capacity of 2.6 MW and is expected to produce more than 3.5 GWh of electricity annually, according to Etrion's calculations. The plant is also expected to generate approximately 1 million euros of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization annually. It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.

A syndicate of banks, including Natixis, WestLB and Mediocreval, provided more than 84% of the financing for the project with an 18-year nonrecourse loan.



NOT ECONOMICLY FEASIBLE! If it has to be subsidized that shows how economicly feasible it is.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 10:23 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Hydraulic fracturing involves injecting water, sand, and a cocktail of chemicals at high pressure into rock formations thousands of feet below the surface. The chemicals that make up that fracking fluid are cause for concern. They may include, among other things, barium, strontium, benzene, glycol-ethers, toluene, 2-(2-methoxyethoxy) ethanol, and nonylphenols.

Drillers got the safe drinking water exemption by convincing Congress that fracking fluids are ultimately removed from the shale formations into which they are pumped. But recent evidence suggest otherwise. A ProPublica investigation recently purported that “as much as 85 percent of the fluids used during hydraulic fracturing is being left underground after wells are drilled in the Marcellus Shale.” Likewise, the water treatment company ProChem Tech reported that “generally 10 to 20% is recovered.”



Tell the whole story. The chemicals are less than 1% of the fluid and they are injected thousands of feet underground. No where near the water table.


Except when they spill on the ground and because they cannot be properly removed for the 20 percent recovered .



Its more like 50% recovered. The 20% figure your using was from a activist group. We know how accurate they are. They wouldn't know a fact if it hit them in the face.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 10:28 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Kyle you and your father Pixie are real credible. You accuse me of saying things and then when I say prove it, you both run with your tale between your legs. Typical for people like you two, you can't prove a thing.



who is running SAME WELLPAD

the only thing running is your big mouth.



It will keep running to. Just to show how credible you and your sheep Kyle are. You two are easy to discredit especially when you accuse me of saying things then can't back it up.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 11:39 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie

I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .

Etrion completes Nettuno Solar Park In Italy




Tuesday, 23 August 2011 06:21
Etrion Corp., an independent solar power producer, has said that the Nettuno solar park in Lazio, Italy, has reached completion.

The Nettuno park has a total capacity of 2.6 MW and is expected to produce more than 3.5 GWh of electricity annually, according to Etrion's calculations. The plant is also expected to generate approximately 1 million euros of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization annually. It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.

A syndicate of banks, including Natixis, WestLB and Mediocreval, provided more than 84% of the financing for the project with an 18-year nonrecourse loan.
Quote:
I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .
I asked you the cost and you attack ..what's up with that?
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 11:43 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Kyle you and your father Pixie are real credible. You accuse me of saying things and then when I say prove it, you both run with your tale between your legs. Typical for people like you two, you can't prove a thing.



who is running SAME WELLPAD

the only thing running is your big mouth.
Quote:
SAME WELLPAD
What's that mean???
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 05:07 PM

braindead said that vertical and horizontal wells were the same and the well pad was the same , which of cource they are not. He denied over and over he said it and even when shown what he wrote rather then admit it he started with the insults again. you asked . just razing him .
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 05:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie

I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .

Etrion completes Nettuno Solar Park In Italy




Tuesday, 23 August 2011 06:21
Etrion Corp., an independent solar power producer, has said that the Nettuno solar park in Lazio, Italy, has reached completion.

The Nettuno park has a total capacity of 2.6 MW and is expected to produce more than 3.5 GWh of electricity annually, according to Etrion's calculations. The plant is also expected to generate approximately 1 million euros of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization annually. It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.

A syndicate of banks, including Natixis, WestLB and Mediocreval, provided more than 84% of the financing for the project with an 18-year nonrecourse loan.
Quote:
I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .
I asked you the cost and you attack ..what's up with that?


sorry If I assumed it was a attack , I had already been jumped on a few times by braindead . I must have jumped to conculsions.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Kyle you and your father Pixie are real credible. You accuse me of saying things and then when I say prove it, you both run with your tale between your legs. Typical for people like you two, you can't prove a thing.



who is running SAME WELLPAD

the only thing running is your big mouth.



It will keep running to. Just to show how credible you and your sheep Kyle are. You two are easy to discredit especially when you accuse me of saying things then can't back it up.


Dont tell me your still saying you never said SAME or WELL PAD go back and look your self I showed you three times yet you denie it . so sad little man , well actualy not. I saw a picture of you in the cop shop re your dui and maybe you need to diet and stop drinking and driving .
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie

I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .

Etrion completes Nettuno Solar Park In Italy




Tuesday, 23 August 2011 06:21
Etrion Corp., an independent solar power producer, has said that the Nettuno solar park in Lazio, Italy, has reached completion.

The Nettuno park has a total capacity of 2.6 MW and is expected to produce more than 3.5 GWh of electricity annually, according to Etrion's calculations. The plant is also expected to generate approximately 1 million euros of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization annually. It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.

A syndicate of banks, including Natixis, WestLB and Mediocreval, provided more than 84% of the financing for the project with an 18-year nonrecourse loan.
Quote:
I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .
I asked you the cost and you attack ..what's up with that?


sorry If I assumed it was a attack , I had already been jumped on a few times by braindead . I must have jumped to conculsions .
Right you jumped conclusions! Why are you calling brainman... braindead? Why do you tell lies about yourself, are you embarrassed with your station in life?
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 05:42 PM

If that installation makes sense, why do the rulers have to force people to subsidize it at over 3 times the market price per kw? That implies that to make it pay its own way, they'd have to charge 4 times the market price. If they did that, it wouldn't be built, because no one (except someone spending someone else's money) would be crazy enough to pay that much for power. Why not just use a cheaper source of power, so they don't have to seize the difference from citizens?

Quote:
It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.


I just don't get this enviro-socialism, unless the goal is to redistribute people's money to a powerful, well connected group of investors running an enviro-hustle, while at the same time making those actually being fleeced feel greenly virtuous, and that they are "making a difference". Nah...couldn't be...people aren't that greedy, or that stupid...
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie

I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .

Etrion completes Nettuno Solar Park In Italy




Tuesday, 23 August 2011 06:21
Etrion Corp., an independent solar power producer, has said that the Nettuno solar park in Lazio, Italy, has reached completion.

The Nettuno park has a total capacity of 2.6 MW and is expected to produce more than 3.5 GWh of electricity annually, according to Etrion's calculations. The plant is also expected to generate approximately 1 million euros of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization annually. It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.

A syndicate of banks, including Natixis, WestLB and Mediocreval, provided more than 84% of the financing for the project with an 18-year nonrecourse loan.
Quote:
I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .
I asked you the cost and you attack ..what's up with that?


sorry If I assumed it was a attack , I had already been jumped on a few times by braindead . I must have jumped to conculsions .
Right you jumped conclusions! Why are you calling brainman... braindead? Why do you tell lies about yourself, are you embarrassed with your station in life?


me embarressed not in the lease bit . when you and brain dead took what is normal and blew it out of all proportions its hardly some thing to run from ,
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
If that installation makes sense, why do the rulers have to force people to subsidize it at over 3 times the market price per kw? That implies that to make it pay its own way, they'd have to charge 4 times the market price. If they did that, it wouldn't be built, because no one (except someone spending someone else's money) would be crazy enough to pay that much for power. Why not just use a cheaper source of power, so they don't have to seize the difference from citizens?

Quote:
It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.


I just don't get this enviro-socialism, unless the goal is to redistribute people's money to a powerful, well connected group of investors running an enviro-hustle, while at the same time making those actually being fleeced feel greenly virtuous, and that they are "making a difference". Nah...couldn't be...people aren't that greedy, or that stupid...


I found the going rate for electricty in that area in 2009 is 37.24 usa cents per kw so its not over priced maybe under priced. sorry could not find a 2011 price , 2009 was the best I could do .
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 07:29 PM

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/22/to-frack-or-not-to-frack/?hp

It was a big week in Andes, N.Y. Last Thursday, the New York Post devoted a full page to the small Catskill village, describing in some detail the Andes Hotel, the surrounding “rolling corn and hay fields,” the affordable housing, the Hunting Tavern Museum, the country store, the coffee shop, the tea shop, the farmer’s market, the art galleries and antique stores, the occasional celebrity resident, the extraordinary natural beauty — everything that led the Post, in an earlier article about great day-trip destinations, to dub Andes Woodstock-as-it-used-to-be.

And then, the very next evening, there was another event that provided an ironic counterpoint to that summer valentine. One hundred sixty Andeans, including the town supervisor, members of the town board and candidates running for a seat on the board, met in the school gym to hear a presentation on the geology of hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking” (the process of extracting natural gas by blasting underground rock formations with a huge volume of chemical-laced water pumped down at very high levels of pressure) and to express their views about what fracking would mean if it came to the town.

The first thing to say is that 160 is an enormous number given that the town’s population is 1,600 and residents weren’t given much notice of the meeting. Were a corresponding percentage of New Yorkers to turn up at a public hearing, there would be no place large enough to hold the more than 800,000 attendees. The second thing to say is that many stayed for the entire three hours and 40 minutes, the length of a short Wagner opera.

The first hour and a quarter was taken up by a sober, pretty much even-handed, explanation of the hydraulics of fracking, the locations in New York of the most promising sites for drilling, the effects on the landscape, the dangers of leakage, explosions, contamination and discharge of radiation, the available methods for containing or mitigating these dangers and the effectiveness (not yet very great) of those methods. As a life-long academic, I was amazed at the sustained and respectful attention of the audience members, many of whom (it turned out) already knew most of what they were being told. It is a rule in my profession that if you talk longer than 50 minutes you will lose your audience. On this occasion, the patience displayed was extraordinary and it extended into the question and answer period, which lasted another 75 minutes.

Then came the evening’s centerpiece, three-minute prepared statements delivered by townspeople who had signed up in advance. It is often said that the opponents of fracking are mostly second-home-owners and weekenders who selfishly prefer their enjoyment of a bucolic landscape to the needs of the long-termers who came before them. But the speakers who stood up to have their say represented every sector of the population — farmers, small-business owners, real estate agents, six-generation natives, newcomers, artists, musicians.

As different as they were, the message was the same and it was eloquently proclaimed: “What we have here is unique and beautiful.” “We have to take action to keep the town we love.” “We must take our destiny into our own hands.” “Andes could become the model for the country.” One of the speakers was a local and a folksinger. She made up a song on the spot and taught it to everyone. The refrain was “If we work together / Then we can make it better.”

Interspersed with the expressions of love, hope and resolution were substantive points of anxiety. No one knows how much contaminated water will escape and where it will go. Even if we stop it here other towns might surrender and we could see a truck kicking up dust and leaking sand every 60 seconds, seven days a week. The noise level will make conversation impossible; no more sitting on the porch of the hotel or the coffee shop. Property values will plummet by 50 to 75 percent (this from a long-time Realtor). Banks are reluctant to write mortgages on property that is being drilled on. There might be limited short-term benefits to a few, but the boom will be followed by a bust, and when it is all over “people won’t want to live here anymore.”

There was agreement that regulation wasn’t the answer, first because no regulation could prevent the disasters that come along inevitably with a project this large, and second because the state couldn’t be counted on either to pass or enforce regulations: “I can’t trust an industry that has got itself exempted from the air and clean water act.” The position that emerged at the end of the evening was simple and unequivocal: “You can’t regulate them but you can ban them if you are sophisticated enough legally and if you remain strong and stay the course.” Every statement was greeted with loud applause. One speaker called for a straw poll. “Anyone in favor of fracking?” Not a hand was raised.

“Inspiring” is not a word I usually use, but this evening was inspiring. The devotion to community, the civic-mindedness, the sheer intelligence displayed by everyone who spoke was a more powerful argument for coming to Andes than the beauties and attractions listed by the Post. But the argument will come to nothing, and everything the Post celebrates will be no more, if the rural birthright of Andes is sold for a mess of fracking.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 07:39 PM

I can't wait until they start fracking in Andes, N.Y.!
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 08:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie

I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .

Etrion completes Nettuno Solar Park In Italy




Tuesday, 23 August 2011 06:21
Etrion Corp., an independent solar power producer, has said that the Nettuno solar park in Lazio, Italy, has reached completion.

The Nettuno park has a total capacity of 2.6 MW and is expected to produce more than 3.5 GWh of electricity annually, according to Etrion's calculations. The plant is also expected to generate approximately 1 million euros of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization annually. It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.

A syndicate of banks, including Natixis, WestLB and Mediocreval, provided more than 84% of the financing for the project with an 18-year nonrecourse loan.
Quote:
I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .
I asked you the cost and you attack ..what's up with that?


sorry If I assumed it was a attack , I had already been jumped on a few times by braindead . I must have jumped to conculsions .
Right you jumped conclusions! Why are you calling brainman... braindead? Why do you tell lies about yourself, are you embarrassed with your station in life?



His problem is he's a arrogant know it all. When someone proves him wrong and points out his mistakes he takes it personally and starts calling people names and putting them down. He's kinda like a spoiled little kid with to many toys and when you start taking them away he cries and whines.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie

I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .

Etrion completes Nettuno Solar Park In Italy




Tuesday, 23 August 2011 06:21
Etrion Corp., an independent solar power producer, has said that the Nettuno solar park in Lazio, Italy, has reached completion.

The Nettuno park has a total capacity of 2.6 MW and is expected to produce more than 3.5 GWh of electricity annually, according to Etrion's calculations. The plant is also expected to generate approximately 1 million euros of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization annually. It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.

A syndicate of banks, including Natixis, WestLB and Mediocreval, provided more than 84% of the financing for the project with an 18-year nonrecourse loan.
Quote:
I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .
I asked you the cost and you attack ..what's up with that?


sorry If I assumed it was a attack , I had already been jumped on a few times by braindead . I must have jumped to conculsions .
Right you jumped conclusions! Why are you calling brainman... braindead? Why do you tell lies about yourself, are you embarrassed with your station in life?


no different then you calling me pixie girl .
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
braindead said that vertical and horizontal wells were the same and the well pad was the same , which of cource they are not. He denied over and over he said it and even when shown what he wrote rather then admit it he started with the insults again. you asked . just razing him .


I said it right you're just to stupid to understand it. Vertical wells and horizontal wells are the same at the start. Horizontal wells just go horizontal when they get down a few thousand feet. The well pads are the same set up just bigger on the horizontal because you have 4 or five wells operating from the same pad. Maybe the disabled scientist might be able
to understand now.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/23/11 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/22/to-frack-or-not-to-frack/?hp

It was a big week in Andes, N.Y. Last Thursday, the New York Post devoted a full page to the small Catskill village, describing in some detail the Andes Hotel, the surrounding “rolling corn and hay fields,” the affordable housing, the Hunting Tavern Museum, the country store, the coffee shop, the tea shop, the farmer’s market, the art galleries and antique stores, the occasional celebrity resident, the extraordinary natural beauty — everything that led the Post, in an earlier article about great day-trip destinations, to dub Andes Woodstock-as-it-used-to-be.

And then, the very next evening, there was another event that provided an ironic counterpoint to that summer valentine. One hundred sixty Andeans, including the town supervisor, members of the town board and candidates running for a seat on the board, met in the school gym to hear a presentation on the geology of hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking” (the process of extracting natural gas by blasting underground rock formations with a huge volume of chemical-laced water pumped down at very high levels of pressure) and to express their views about what fracking would mean if it came to the town.

The first thing to say is that 160 is an enormous number given that the town’s population is 1,600 and residents weren’t given much notice of the meeting. Were a corresponding percentage of New Yorkers to turn up at a public hearing, there would be no place large enough to hold the more than 800,000 attendees. The second thing to say is that many stayed for the entire three hours and 40 minutes, the length of a short Wagner opera.

The first hour and a quarter was taken up by a sober, pretty much even-handed, explanation of the hydraulics of fracking, the locations in New York of the most promising sites for drilling, the effects on the landscape, the dangers of leakage, explosions, contamination and discharge of radiation, the available methods for containing or mitigating these dangers and the effectiveness (not yet very great) of those methods. As a life-long academic, I was amazed at the sustained and respectful attention of the audience members, many of whom (it turned out) already knew most of what they were being told. It is a rule in my profession that if you talk longer than 50 minutes you will lose your audience. On this occasion, the patience displayed was extraordinary and it extended into the question and answer period, which lasted another 75 minutes.

Then came the evening’s centerpiece, three-minute prepared statements delivered by townspeople who had signed up in advance. It is often said that the opponents of fracking are mostly second-home-owners and weekenders who selfishly prefer their enjoyment of a bucolic landscape to the needs of the long-termers who came before them. But the speakers who stood up to have their say represented every sector of the population — farmers, small-business owners, real estate agents, six-generation natives, newcomers, artists, musicians.

As different as they were, the message was the same and it was eloquently proclaimed: “What we have here is unique and beautiful.” “We have to take action to keep the town we love.” “We must take our destiny into our own hands.” “Andes could become the model for the country.” One of the speakers was a local and a folksinger. She made up a song on the spot and taught it to everyone. The refrain was “If we work together / Then we can make it better.”

Interspersed with the expressions of love, hope and resolution were substantive points of anxiety. No one knows how much contaminated water will escape and where it will go. Even if we stop it here other towns might surrender and we could see a truck kicking up dust and leaking sand every 60 seconds, seven days a week. The noise level will make conversation impossible; no more sitting on the porch of the hotel or the coffee shop. Property values will plummet by 50 to 75 percent (this from a long-time Realtor). Banks are reluctant to write mortgages on property that is being drilled on. There might be limited short-term benefits to a few, but the boom will be followed by a bust, and when it is all over “people won’t want to live here anymore.”

There was agreement that regulation wasn’t the answer, first because no regulation could prevent the disasters that come along inevitably with a project this large, and second because the state couldn’t be counted on either to pass or enforce regulations: “I can’t trust an industry that has got itself exempted from the air and clean water act.” The position that emerged at the end of the evening was simple and unequivocal: “You can’t regulate them but you can ban them if you are sophisticated enough legally and if you remain strong and stay the course.” Every statement was greeted with loud applause. One speaker called for a straw poll. “Anyone in favor of fracking?” Not a hand was raised.

“Inspiring” is not a word I usually use, but this evening was inspiring. The devotion to community, the civic-mindedness, the sheer intelligence displayed by everyone who spoke was a more powerful argument for coming to Andes than the beauties and attractions listed by the Post. But the argument will come to nothing, and everything the Post celebrates will be no more, if the rural birthright of Andes is sold for a mess of fracking.




Typical activist crap meeting. Everybody sits around and says a bunch of lies they learned from the activist sites that aren't anywhere near the truth.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/24/11 08:14 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie


no different then you calling me pixie girl .
Everyone was reprimanded by the mod's for not being civil to each other! Now take one poster who cried in his soup because he thinks I'm uncivil. I can say, I don't take advantage of people nor do I scam people! And if taking advantage and scamming people is being civil, I guess I'll keep being myself, without being so caustic.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/24/11 11:23 AM

To the Editor:

Out of sight, out of mind ... cannot be further from the truth. As Concerned Citizens of Seneca County we are thoughtfully doing what needs to be done for our next generation.

We all know about Seneca Meadows buying up all the publicity by giving “to all” for the asking. Do you see any other large corporation doing what they do? Don’t we understand they are buying their way to be able to do whatever destruction they want in our Seneca County?

Do our county supervisors realize this? Do they ask how much foul odor and leachate is produced daily from this landfill?
Ontario County does — thousands of gallons daily. Let’s all remember they are in deep holes with liners for our next generation ... mountains of trash and garbage where their trucks look like Matchbox toys and are, needless to say, just a short walking distance from our town and village of Waterloo.

Seneca County supervisors, look out your windows from your county building and you see that so clearly. Aren’t you concerned at all? This is what you are leaving behind along with another mountain in between. When Seneca Meadows purchased land in our town of Waterloo across from our village we were never made aware of the purpose. The town board and Seneca Meadows knew, but we taxpayers were never told.

The purpose was a “Meadow View Clay Mine.” When the Community Benefits Agreement was signed in August 2005, the town board with Mr. Mooney as supervisor and Seneca Meadows Inc. were aware of the existing mining law established in 2000 requiring 1,000-foot setback, our current law Chapter 80. Now our town board wants to rescind this law. Yes, allowing Seneca Meadows Inc. to
do whatever it pleases. Don’t forget that the 45-foot deep mud hole, infestation and hazard situation on Burgess Road will, for 11 years, affect our school, Little League fields and our homes.

GEORGINE VITETTA ROSATA
Waterloo
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/24/11 12:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie


no different then you calling me pixie girl .
Everyone was reprimanded by the mod's for not being civil to each other! Now take one poster who cried in his soup because he thinks I'm uncivil. I can say, I don't take advantage of people nor do I scam people! And if taking advantage and scamming people is being civil, I guess I'll keep being myself, without being so caustic.



hey I tried to applogize but you threw that right back at me . My fight with braindead is because he spread lies that I was a tax evader when he had no proof other then to try and GET ME , I warned him and he continues , Im only trying to protect my self . if you want to be civil then ok lets start over, I will not be caustic to you if you are not caustic to me . Sounds like a fair offer to me.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/24/11 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie


no different then you calling me pixie girl .
Everyone was reprimanded by the mod's for not being civil to each other! Now take one poster who cried in his soup because he thinks I'm uncivil. I can say, I don't take advantage of people nor do I scam people! And if taking advantage and scamming people is being civil, I guess I'll keep being myself, without being so caustic.



hey I tried to applogize but you threw that right back at me . My fight with braindead is because he spread lies that I was a tax evader when he had no proof other then to try and GET ME , I warned him and he continues , Im only trying to protect my self . if you want to be civil then ok lets start over, I will not be caustic to you if you are not caustic to me . Sounds like a fair offer to me.
Don't apologize to me, it shows me that you're weak.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/24/11 01:31 PM

The whole earth is now crumbling from all the deep drilling.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44259858/ns/world_news-americas/#.TlVBIV0W67w

LIMA — A 6.8-magnitude earthquake shook buildings in Peru's capital city, Lima Wednesday, witnesses and the U.S. Geological Survey said.

The USGS said the epicenter of the quake was 51 miles north of Pucallpa, in the Peruvian Amazon forest close to the Brazilian border.

The USGS said the quake, initially upgraded to a magnitude 6.9, was 90.2 miles deep
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/24/11 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
The whole earth is now crumbling from all the deep drilling.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44259858/ns/world_news-americas/#.TlVBIV0W67w

LIMA — A 6.8-magnitude earthquake shook buildings in Peru's capital city, Lima Wednesday, witnesses and the U.S. Geological Survey said.

The USGS said the epicenter of the quake was 51 miles north of Pucallpa, in the Peruvian Amazon forest close to the Brazilian border.

The USGS said the quake, initially upgraded to a magnitude 6.9, was 90.2 miles deep
Lay off the pipe pal, you sound like Al Gore.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/24/11 10:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie

I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .

Etrion completes Nettuno Solar Park In Italy




Tuesday, 23 August 2011 06:21
Etrion Corp., an independent solar power producer, has said that the Nettuno solar park in Lazio, Italy, has reached completion.

The Nettuno park has a total capacity of 2.6 MW and is expected to produce more than 3.5 GWh of electricity annually, according to Etrion's calculations. The plant is also expected to generate approximately 1 million euros of earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization annually. It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.

A syndicate of banks, including Natixis, WestLB and Mediocreval, provided more than 84% of the financing for the project with an 18-year nonrecourse loan.
Quote:
I made sure to add the cost just for redneckwoodchuck and braindead .
I asked you the cost and you attack ..what's up with that?


sorry If I assumed it was a attack , I had already been jumped on a few times by braindead . I must have jumped to conculsions .
Right you jumped conclusions! Why are you calling brainman... braindead? Why do you tell lies about yourself, are you embarrassed with your station in life?




Hey Harley Bob. I know where you can get some cheap solar panels and a thatch hut? The only problem is they will be floating out in the ocean.
Posted by: wooden nickel

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 02:05 PM

I just picked up my FLT. One of the headlines on pg. 1 says the shale in this area contains 40 times more gas than previously thought.
I have yet to decide wether I do or do not agree with fracking in this area. I do have to wonder, however; if the "experts" were so far off on their estimates of recoverable gas, what is the possibility they could also be way off on their claims that fracking is relatively safe?
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 03:41 PM

Originally Posted By: wooden nickel
I just picked up my FLT. One of the headlines on pg. 1 says the shale in this area contains 40 times more gas than previously thought.
I have yet to decide wether I do or do not agree with fracking in this area. I do have to wonder, however; if the "experts" were so far off on their estimates of recoverable gas, what is the possibility they could also be way off on their claims that fracking is relatively safe?


.
there now talking up to 240,000 wells in NY and 125,000 in PA wow thats a lot of water used up , 15 million gallons over three fracks including what is re used , is 3600 trillion gallons of fresh water lost down the hole in NY alone .
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: wooden nickel
I just picked up my FLT. One of the headlines on pg. 1 says the shale in this area contains 40 times more gas than previously thought.
I have yet to decide wether I do or do not agree with fracking in this area. I do have to wonder, however; if the "experts" were so far off on their estimates of recoverable gas, what is the possibility they could also be way off on their claims that fracking is relatively safe?





.
there now talking up to 240,000 wells in NY and 125,000 in PA wow thats a lot of water used up , 15 million gallons over three fracks including what is re used , is 3600 trillion gallons of fresh water lost down the hole in NY alone .



What a joke you are? You like using those big figures trying to alarm people and make yourself look impressive. Just using your figures which are stupid doesn't add up. If they are using 15 million gallons per well and are reusing and recycling 50% of that water how does that add up to 36 trillion gallons. Eventually that recycling figure will be 75% or more plus they have developed fracking fluid without your so called toxic chemicals. Your going to have to find a new topic to try and impress people with your lack of knowledge because this one is losing steam.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 06:39 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie


no different then you calling me pixie girl .
Interesting!
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: wooden nickel
I just picked up my FLT. One of the headlines on pg. 1 says the shale in this area contains 40 times more gas than previously thought.
I have yet to decide wether I do or do not agree with fracking in this area. I do have to wonder, however; if the "experts" were so far off on their estimates of recoverable gas, what is the possibility they could also be way off on their claims that fracking is relatively safe?


.
there now talking up to 240,000 wells in NY and 125,000 in PA wow thats a lot of water used up , 15 million gallons over three fracks including what is re used , is 3600 trillion gallons of fresh water lost down the hole in NY alone .
Wow! That should drive down the price of natural gas. And put people back to work and with a little luck we could sell the gas to the Chinese.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 07:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Harleybob5
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: wooden nickel
I just picked up my FLT. One of the headlines on pg. 1 says the shale in this area contains 40 times more gas than previously thought.
I have yet to decide wether I do or do not agree with fracking in this area. I do have to wonder, however; if the "experts" were so far off on their estimates of recoverable gas, what is the possibility they could also be way off on their claims that fracking is relatively safe?





.
there now talking up to 240,000 wells in NY and 125,000 in PA wow thats a lot of water used up , 15 million gallons over three fracks including what is re used , is 3600 trillion gallons of fresh water lost down the hole in NY alone .
Wow! That should drive down the price of natural gas. And put people back to work and with a little luck we could sell the gas to the Chinese.




People like Pixie and Kyle don't care about jobs or economic development. They only care about themselves in their own self centered world. To them tourism is the answer with low paying jobs and a seasonal economy.
Posted by: Ayuveda

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 07:19 PM

Seems like they care about preserving the quality of our Finger Lakes waters in a world of diminishing fresh water sources.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 07:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Seems like they care about preserving the quality of our Finger Lakes waters in a world of diminishing fresh water sources.
N -1
Posted by: VM Smith

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
If that installation makes sense, why do the rulers have to force people to subsidize it at over 3 times the market price per kw? That implies that to make it pay its own way, they'd have to charge 4 times the market price. If they did that, it wouldn't be built, because no one (except someone spending someone else's money) would be crazy enough to pay that much for power. Why not just use a cheaper source of power, so they don't have to seize the difference from citizens?

Quote:
It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.


I just don't get this enviro-socialism, unless the goal is to redistribute people's money to a powerful, well connected group of investors running an enviro-hustle, while at the same time making those actually being fleeced feel greenly virtuous, and that they are "making a difference". Nah...couldn't be...people aren't that greedy, or that stupid...


I found the going rate for electricty in that area in 2009 is 37.24 usa cents per kw so its not over priced maybe under priced. sorry could not find a 2011 price , 2009 was the best I could do .


Etrion is an independent power producer. They sell to utilities. The .08 Euro/kwh is the wholesale price they receive from a utility.

Without the handout, amounting to 3 times the amount the electricity could be sold for, the market price would not be sufficient to justify that method of generation. IOW, nobody would be dumb enough to use that method unless they can force other people to help pay the exhorbitant cost.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 08:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Seems like they care about preserving the quality of our Finger Lakes waters in a world of diminishing fresh water sources.




I understand that part but you can't just slam the barn door shut either. This state needs jobs and revenue. There's no reason why both goals can't be acheived.
Posted by: Ayuveda

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 08:57 PM

Wrong. When it come to hydraulic fracturing in our Finger Lakes area I can indeed "slam the barn door shut".

Right off it's hinges.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 09:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Wrong. When it come to hydraulic fracturing in our Finger Lakes area I can indeed "slam the barn door shut".

Right off it's hinges.



That's why this state is in the shape it is in. To many people like you.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Wrong. When it come to hydraulic fracturing in our Finger Lakes area I can indeed "slam the barn door shut".

Right off it's hinges.
Ahahahahaha... when it come to money and jobs it trumps your wrong and the barn door!
Posted by: Ayuveda

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 09:37 PM

Dryden, Town of Ithaca, Town of Ulysses. Each have enacted bans on fracking. Since when don't you support grass roots activism in action.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 09:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Dryden, Town of Ithaca, Town of Ulysses. Each have enacted bans on fracking. Since when don't you support grass roots activism in action.



Fracking bans aren't worth the paper they are wrote on. State law supercedes any local law. Local towns can't regulate drilling. They can only regulate things such as road use.
Posted by: Ayuveda

Re: Frack legislation - 08/25/11 10:27 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Dryden, Town of Ithaca, Town of Ulysses. Each have enacted bans on fracking. Since when don't you support grass roots activism in action.



Fracking bans aren't worth the paper they are wrote on. State law supercedes any local law. Local towns can't regulate drilling. They can only regulate things such as road use.



"o-n-l-y regulate road use"?

Sounds like a a pretty decent weapon in the war against fracking.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 06:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Dryden, Town of Ithaca, Town of Ulysses. Each have enacted bans on fracking. Since when don't you support grass roots activism in action.



Fracking bans aren't worth the paper they are wrote on. State law supercedes any local law. Local towns can't regulate drilling. They can only regulate things such as road use.



"o-n-l-y regulate road use"?

Sounds like a a pretty decent weapon in the war against fracking.





That's regulate not ban. You can require them to fix the road after they use it which already do anyway. You can require them to fix any other damage which they already do now. The gas drilling is going to happen its just a matter of time.
Posted by: Ayuveda

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 06:50 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Dryden, Town of Ithaca, Town of Ulysses. Each have enacted bans on fracking. Since when don't you support grass roots activism in action.



Fracking bans aren't worth the paper they are wrote on. State law supercedes any local law. Local towns can't regulate drilling. They can only regulate things such as road use.



"o-n-l-y regulate road use"?

Sounds like a a pretty decent weapon in the war against fracking.





That's regulate not ban. You can require them to fix the road after they use it which already do anyway. You can require them to fix any other damage which they already do now. The gas drilling is going to happen its just a matter of time.




No fracking in the Town of Ulysses.

http://a22.video2.blip.tv/12390009173174...=3166&bri=145.4
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 06:54 AM

Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
If that installation makes sense, why do the rulers have to force people to subsidize it at over 3 times the market price per kw? That implies that to make it pay its own way, they'd have to charge 4 times the market price. If they did that, it wouldn't be built, because no one (except someone spending someone else's money) would be crazy enough to pay that much for power. Why not just use a cheaper source of power, so they don't have to seize the difference from citizens?

Quote:
It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.


I just don't get this enviro-socialism, unless the goal is to redistribute people's money to a powerful, well connected group of investors running an enviro-hustle, while at the same time making those actually being fleeced feel greenly virtuous, and that they are "making a difference". Nah...couldn't be...people aren't that greedy, or that stupid...


I found the going rate for electricty in that area in 2009 is 37.24 usa cents per kw so its not over priced maybe under priced. sorry could not find a 2011 price , 2009 was the best I could do .


Etrion is an independent power producer. They sell to utilities. The .08 Euro/kwh is the wholesale price they receive from a utility.

Without the handout, amounting to 3 times the amount the electricity could be sold for, the market price would not be sufficient to justify that method of generation. IOW, nobody would be dumb enough to use that method unless they can force other people to help pay the exhorbitant cost.


True but at what point do you just continue to burn oil or coal, without renewable energy our way of life is limited. we do not have a endless supply of oil and our world can not take continued burning due to carbon. It takes a long time to replace all our existing power plants oil. gas , and coal burning as well as nuke. almost all types of large plants such as ethanol in the usa receive huge grants so why not solar . at least with solar once they are set up other then minimal maintenance they produce very low cost electrical almost pollution free. The only pollution is in the manufacture which is not that big. one positive they are almost 100 percent recyclable .
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 07:41 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
If that installation makes sense, why do the rulers have to force people to subsidize it at over 3 times the market price per kw? That implies that to make it pay its own way, they'd have to charge 4 times the market price. If they did that, it wouldn't be built, because no one (except someone spending someone else's money) would be crazy enough to pay that much for power. Why not just use a cheaper source of power, so they don't have to seize the difference from citizens?

Quote:
It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.


I just don't get this enviro-socialism, unless the goal is to redistribute people's money to a powerful, well connected group of investors running an enviro-hustle, while at the same time making those actually being fleeced feel greenly virtuous, and that they are "making a difference". Nah...couldn't be...people aren't that greedy, or that stupid...


I found the going rate for electricty in that area in 2009 is 37.24 usa cents per kw so its not over priced maybe under priced. sorry could not find a 2011 price , 2009 was the best I could do .


Etrion is an independent power producer. They sell to utilities. The .08 Euro/kwh is the wholesale price they receive from a utility.

Without the handout, amounting to 3 times the amount the electricity could be sold for, the market price would not be sufficient to justify that method of generation. IOW, nobody would be dumb enough to use that method unless they can force other people to help pay the exhorbitant cost.


True but at what point do you just continue to burn oil or coal, without renewable energy our way of life is limited. we do not have a endless supply of oil and our world can not take continued burning due to carbon. It takes a long time to replace all our existing power plants oil. gas , and coal burning as well as nuke. almost all types of large plants such as ethanol in the usa receive huge grants so why not solar . at least with solar once they are set up other then minimal maintenance they produce very low cost electrical almost pollution free. The only pollution is in the manufacture which is not that big. one positive they are almost 100 percent recyclable .



Thats why you drill for gas. There's a very large supply. It will also put Americans back to work plus bring in much needed revenue for the states. Its funny how you talk out of both sides of your mouth.
Posted by: Ayuveda

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 08:05 AM

"There's a very large supply."

About 80% LESS than previous estimates it seems.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wow-us-slashes-marcellus-shale-gas-estimate-by-80-2011-8
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 08:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
"There's a very large supply."

About 80% LESS than previous estimates it seems.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wow-us-slashes-marcellus-shale-gas-estimate-by-80-2011-8




Actually much much more.




Home News Local .Shale contains 40 times more gas in new estimate


Shale contains 40 times more gas in new estimate By JIM MILLER jmiller@fltimes.com Finger Lakes Times | 0 comments

The Marcellus Shale may contain about 40 times more recoverable natural gas than previously thought, the U.S. Geological Survey announced Tuesday.

In 2002, the USGS estimated the shale formation contained 2 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. Now, it thinks there are 84 trillion cubic feet.


In addition, the agency upped its estimate of recoverable natural gas liquids from 10 million to 3.4 billion barrels.

For an industry eager to expand, the new estimates are welcome news.

“I think the numbers start to quantify and sort of validate the perception that the industry has on the magnitude of this resource and the economic opportunity,” said John Holko, secretary of the board for the Independent Oil and Gas Association of New York.

The new estimates represent increases of 4,100 percent and 33,900 percent, respectively, over the previous numbers.

Estimates do vary, however. The U.S. Department of Energy had earlier put the amount of recoverable gas at 410 trillion cubic tons — 80 percent more than the new USGS estimate.

The Finger Lakes region sits on the fringe of the vast Marcellus Shale formation, which lies beneath Kentucky, Maryland, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia and West Virginia. Much of the gas can be extracted only through a controversial drilling method called hydraulic fracturing, or hydrofracking, a procedure New York state is currently reviewing.

“[The Marcellus Shale] gets much thinner in this area, so [the new estimate] has, I’m sure, much more impact to Pennsylvania and the Southern Tier,” said Phil Cianciotto, president of the Seneca Lake Pure Waters Association.

The Seneca Lake association supports environmentally responsible drilling, but has expressed concerns about hydrofracking. The increased gas estimates don’t change that.

“The amount of gas is neither here nor there,” Cianciotto said. “It’s more the process to extract the gas.”

Water contamination and other environmental woes are concerns related to hydrofracking, he said.

In a press release, the USGS attributed its increased estimates to new geological information and engineering data.

“Since the 1930s, almost every well-drilling through the Marcellus found noticeable quantities of natural gas,” the USGS said. “However, in late 2004, the Marcellus was recognized as a potential reservoir rock, instead of just a regional rock source, meaning that the gas could be produced from it instead of just being a source for the gas.”

Holko said the new estimates reflect both data from drilling that’s already taken place and the new technology now in use, including horizontal drilling.

Before wells are drilled, the amount of gas is always a guess. Now that drilling has started, seeing the estimates increase instead of drop is encouraging for the industry, Holko said.

The USGS worked with the Pennsylvania Geological Survey, the West Virginia Geological and Economic Survey, the Ohio Geological Survey, academics and gas industry representatives to develop an improved understanding of the Marcellus Shale.

The resulting numbers represent an average. Estimates of recoverable natural gas ranged from 43 trillion to 144.1 trillion cubic feet. Estimates of recoverable natural gas liquids ranged from 1.6 billion to 6.2 billion barrels.

The IOGA did not work with the USGS on the estimates.

“They probably shied away a little bit from New York because, as you know, there’s not much happening in New York,” Holko said.

Holko and other industry advocates hope to see that change.

“The recovery of this resource is no way indicative of some ability to jeopardize environmental safety,” he said. “This is all done with all kinds of environmental oversight, so I think it’s a very good opportunity for everyone in the Appalachian Basin. And remember, [the Marcellus Shale] is just one of the formations down there.”
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 09:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Dryden, Town of Ithaca, Town of Ulysses. Each have enacted bans on fracking. Since when don't you support grass roots activism in action.
ahahahahaha... about the same time AL Gore said the sky is falling.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 01:10 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
If that installation makes sense, why do the rulers have to force people to subsidize it at over 3 times the market price per kw? That implies that to make it pay its own way, they'd have to charge 4 times the market price. If they did that, it wouldn't be built, because no one (except someone spending someone else's money) would be crazy enough to pay that much for power. Why not just use a cheaper source of power, so they don't have to seize the difference from citizens?

Quote:
It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.


I just don't get this enviro-socialism, unless the goal is to redistribute people's money to a powerful, well connected group of investors running an enviro-hustle, while at the same time making those actually being fleeced feel greenly virtuous, and that they are "making a difference". Nah...couldn't be...people aren't that greedy, or that stupid...


I found the going rate for electricty in that area in 2009 is 37.24 usa cents per kw so its not over priced maybe under priced. sorry could not find a 2011 price , 2009 was the best I could do .


Etrion is an independent power producer. They sell to utilities. The .08 Euro/kwh is the wholesale price they receive from a utility.

Without the handout, amounting to 3 times the amount the electricity could be sold for, the market price would not be sufficient to justify that method of generation. IOW, nobody would be dumb enough to use that method unless they can force other people to help pay the exhorbitant cost.


True but at what point do you just continue to burn oil or coal, without renewable energy our way of life is limited. we do not have a endless supply of oil and our world can not take continued burning due to carbon. It takes a long time to replace all our existing power plants oil. gas , and coal burning as well as nuke. almost all types of large plants such as ethanol in the usa receive huge grants so why not solar . at least with solar once they are set up other then minimal maintenance they produce very low cost electrical almost pollution free. The only pollution is in the manufacture which is not that big. one positive they are almost 100 percent recyclable .



Thats why you drill for gas. There's a very large supply. It will also put Americans back to work plus bring in much needed revenue for the states. Its funny how you talk out of both sides of your mouth.


yep keep burning fossil fuels has the last 10 years not been hot enough. Research is now showing drilling for and using natural gas is a worse a greenhouse gas producer then coal .
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie


yep keep burning fossil fuels has the last 10 years not been hot enough. Research is now showing drilling for and using natural gas is a worse a greenhouse gas producer then coal .
Okay, I'll burn garbage a little wood with chopped up old tires.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 01:55 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
If that installation makes sense, why do the rulers have to force people to subsidize it at over 3 times the market price per kw? That implies that to make it pay its own way, they'd have to charge 4 times the market price. If they did that, it wouldn't be built, because no one (except someone spending someone else's money) would be crazy enough to pay that much for power. Why not just use a cheaper source of power, so they don't have to seize the difference from citizens?

Quote:
It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.


I just don't get this enviro-socialism, unless the goal is to redistribute people's money to a powerful, well connected group of investors running an enviro-hustle, while at the same time making those actually being fleeced feel greenly virtuous, and that they are "making a difference". Nah...couldn't be...people aren't that greedy, or that stupid...


I found the going rate for electricty in that area in 2009 is 37.24 usa cents per kw so its not over priced maybe under priced. sorry could not find a 2011 price , 2009 was the best I could do .


Etrion is an independent power producer. They sell to utilities. The .08 Euro/kwh is the wholesale price they receive from a utility.

Without the handout, amounting to 3 times the amount the electricity could be sold for, the market price would not be sufficient to justify that method of generation. IOW, nobody would be dumb enough to use that method unless they can force other people to help pay the exhorbitant cost.


True but at what point do you just continue to burn oil or coal, without renewable energy our way of life is limited. we do not have a endless supply of oil and our world can not take continued burning due to carbon. It takes a long time to replace all our existing power plants oil. gas , and coal burning as well as nuke. almost all types of large plants such as ethanol in the usa receive huge grants so why not solar . at least with solar once they are set up other then minimal maintenance they produce very low cost electrical almost pollution free. The only pollution is in the manufacture which is not that big. one positive they are almost 100 percent recyclable .



Thats why you drill for gas. There's a very large supply. It will also put Americans back to work plus bring in much needed revenue for the states. Its funny how you talk out of both sides of your mouth.


yep keep burning fossil fuels has the last 10 years not been hot enough. Research is now showing drilling for and using natural gas is a worse a greenhouse gas producer then coal .




I like it hot. No snow for me.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/26/11 02:08 PM

warning warning..............You Tube ..............Video................warning warning \:\)
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 08/27/11 01:03 PM

[quote=brainman


Hey Harley Bob. I know where you can get some cheap solar panels and a thatch hut? The only problem is they will be floating out in the ocean. [/quote]


oh sorry all is well in the bahamas my hatched hut and solar panels survived only one small papaya tree fell down no damage. to bad Garry aka brainman i know how much hearing some ones ill fate makes you happy.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/27/11 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
[quote=brainman


Hey Harley Bob. I know where you can get some cheap solar panels and a thatch hut? The only problem is they will be floating out in the ocean.



oh sorry all is well in the bahamas my hatched hut and solar panels survived only one small papaya tree fell down no damage. to bad Garry aka brainman i know how much hearing some ones ill fate makes you happy. [/quote]



Only people like you! Did that hatched hut come from a egg? OMG your such a joke! LMAO!
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 08/29/11 07:50 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/oyster-population-plummets-louisiana/story?id=14404214

By CHRISTINA CARON (@cdcaron)
Aug. 29, 2011

Today, on the sixth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, Louisiana and Mississippi are battling a sharp decline in the oyster population, which may not recover until 2013 now that a two-year influx of fresh water has killed off millions of the mollusks.

After the BP oil spill in 2010, water was diverted out of the Mississippi River to keep the oil away from coastal wetlands. In the process, freshwater flooded into oyster hatcheries, disrupting the delicate saline balance required for oysters to survive. When saline levels get too low, algae die, eliminating the oyster's food supply.

And if it weren't already enough that the Gulf Coast had been hammered by the largest oil spill in U.S. history as well as record drought, oyster farmers got hit again in May after rain and snowmelt had caused the Mississippi River to rise higher than it had in 70 years.

The Army Corps of Engineers opened the Bonnet Carre Spillway, located west of New Orleans, to divert rising Mississippi River floodwaters from the city. Soon after, they also opened the Morganza spillway, diverting water away from both Baton Rouge and New Orleans, and adding even more fresh water to oyster grounds.

"This year we'll produce about 50 percent of our traditional in-shell oysters," said Mike Voisin, CEO of Motivatit Seafoods, which typically produces about 20 million pounds of in-shell oysters.

During a typical oyster season, which starts in September in Louisiana, Voisin said the state produces a third of the nation's oysters. But this year, he estimates the number will decline from an average of 250 million pounds to about 125 million pounds.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/29/11 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/oyster-population-plummets-louisiana/story?id=14404214

By CHRISTINA CARON (@cdcaron)
Aug. 29, 2011

Today, on the sixth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, Louisiana and Mississippi are battling a sharp decline in the oyster population, which may not recover until 2013 now that a two-year influx of fresh water has killed off millions of the mollusks.

After the BP oil spill in 2010, water was diverted out of the Mississippi River to keep the oil away from coastal wetlands. In the process, freshwater flooded into oyster hatcheries, disrupting the delicate saline balance required for oysters to survive. When saline levels get too low, algae die, eliminating the oyster's food supply.

And if it weren't already enough that the Gulf Coast had been hammered by the largest oil spill in U.S. history as well as record drought, oyster farmers got hit again in May after rain and snowmelt had caused the Mississippi River to rise higher than it had in 70 years.

The Army Corps of Engineers opened the Bonnet Carre Spillway, located west of New Orleans, to divert rising Mississippi River floodwaters from the city. Soon after, they also opened the Morganza spillway, diverting water away from both Baton Rouge and New Orleans, and adding even more fresh water to oyster grounds.

"This year we'll produce about 50 percent of our traditional in-shell oysters," said Mike Voisin, CEO of Motivatit Seafoods, which typically produces about 20 million pounds of in-shell oysters.

During a typical oyster season, which starts in September in Louisiana, Voisin said the state produces a third of the nation's oysters. But this year, he estimates the number will decline from an average of 250 million pounds to about 125 million pounds.
Does your mom feed you oysters filled Hot Pockets?
Posted by: MeRightYouWrong

Re: Frack legislation - 08/29/11 08:32 PM

She feeds him oysters because they are an aphrodisiac.
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 08/29/11 08:38 PM

Originally Posted By: MeRightYouWrong
She feeds him oysters because they are an aphrodisiac.
Ahahahahaha...
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/30/11 06:08 PM

http://www.marcellusfacts.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/2011IOGAFactSheet1.pdf
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 08/30/11 06:30 PM

The gas is coming.





Gas storage draft OK’d By DAVID L. SHAW dshaw@fltimes.com Finger Lakes Times | 0 comments

READING — The state Department of Environmental Conservation has determined that the Draft Supplemental Environ mental Impact Statement submitted for a proposed underground liquified petroleum gas storage facility near Seneca Lake is complete and ready for public review.

The DSEIS was submitted by Finger Lakes LPG Storage LLC of Kansas City, Mo., a subsidiary of Inergy Midstream LLC. A public hearing on the report has been scheduled for 7 p.m. Sept. 27 at the Watkins Glen High School auditorium.


Company officials also have agreed to be available for a public information session from 6 to 7 p.m. prior to the hearing to answer questions from the public.

Written comments on the DSEIS and the project will be accepted until Monday, Oct. 10, and will be given equal weight to oral comments at the hearing.

Written comments should be sent to David L. Bimber, Deputy Regional Permit Administrator, NYSDEC, 6274 East Avon-Lima Road, Avon, 14414-9516. Bimber’s telephone number is (585) 226-5401.

The complete DSEIS and the permit application are available for public review at the DEC Region 8 office in Avon by appointment during normal business hours.

The documents also are available during normal business hours at Reading Town Hall, 3914 County Route 28, Watkins Glen, or at the Watkins Glen Public Library, 610 S. Decatur St.

The first DSEIS was submitted March 15 and revised at the DEC’s request June 9, July 18 and Aug. 1.

DEC is the lead agency for the State Environmental Quality Review Act process and issued a positive declaration of environmental significance Nov. 17, 2010.

The controversial project has drawn considerable opposition.

The company wants to construct and operate a new underground liquified petroleum gas (LPG) storage facility in existing caverns created for salt production. The proposed site consists of 576 acres on Routes 14 and 14A west of the lake and north of Watkins Glen.

The proposal calls for storing a maximum of 2.10 million barrels, or 88.2 million gallons, of LPG in the caverns seasonally, displacing some of the brine currently in the caverns. The LPG would be withdrawn by displacement of propane by brine when demand occurs during the heating season and by displacement of butane by brine during the gasoline-blending season.

During storage, the brine displaced by LPG will be stored and contained in a 14-acre double-lined surface pond with a capacity of 2.19 million barrels, or 91.9 million gallons. The pond would be east of the junction of Routes 14 and 14A.

The storage facility would connect to the existing LPG interstate pipeline and ship LPG by truck and railroad.

The project also involves construction of a new railroad and truck LPG facility, consisting of a six-rail siding capable of allowing the loading and unloading of 24 rail cars within 12 hours and a truck-loading station capable of handling four trucks per hour. That facility could operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Construction also would include LPG storage tanks, offices, distribution facilities and stormwater control structures.

“Inergy’s plan to make Seneca Lake the gas storage and transportation hub of the Northeast just got one step closer to reality,’’ said Joseph Campbell of Gas Free Seneca.

“It is more critical now than ever to make our voices heard. If we don’t act now, we may lose the place and way of life we love forever,’’ he said.
Posted by: kyle585

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 11:17 AM

To the Editor:

I am just curious. Are the people championing hydrofracking the second generation of the people who championed the use of asbestos, lead and DDT? In those days that generation claimed there was no harm in using asbestos in the home, lead in pipes,
paint etc. and in using DDT as an insecticide. Now, many years and illnesses later, they have been proven wrong. What will it take to prove this generation wrong now before the future illnesses and death? There needs to be a lot more investigation before any government agency should okay this procedure to find any kind of fuel.

HEALTH BEFORE WEALTH!!!.

IRENE OREIND
Waterloo

****************************

To the Editor:

While more politicians are being made aware of hydrofracking for gas in New York’s shale deposits and the probable environmental problems down the road, Rep. Tom Reed, the farmers’ friend, seems to distance himself from it all. In fact, he says if it’s
OK with the DEC, it’s OK with him. Well, Mr. Martens who heads up the state DEC has already stated his plans for allowing drilling without waiting for the comment period to close. Next Gov. Cuomo says he’ll sign a bill allowing large amounts of water to be drawn out of state lakes and probably rivers as well. You need millions and millions of gallons of water to mix with sand and special chemicals (several toxic) in order to do hydrofracking. You can see where his stand is on the issue; it’s the bottom line — money. It’s easier to stop a problem before it happens than it is to clean it up later, if at all possible.

Apparently, hydrofrack now and later get stuck with the cleanup bill that no one can afford. Politicians only care about what makes them look good or what they can get out of it material-wise. I’d guess they only pretend to work for us while lining their own pockets and getting re-elected. If you leave it up to one person toaffect the rest of us, like the DEC, you can start putting money down on prepaid future funerals before your health starts to fail and leaves you bankrupt.

Also beware of landfill runoff. It’s almost as bad as hydrofracking. This is one guinea pig that wants out of this lab experiment. I will not go quietly to my grave.

STEPHEN FALLON
Stanley

*****************************

To the Editor:

I am so glad that Sen. Schumer (Uncle Chuck) is looking out for us here in the region. I bet there were just thousands of letters, faxes and emails by his constituents anxious tohave millions of New York state taxpayer dollars go to an offshore, multibillion-dollar company (Moser Baer) to create (someday) 59 new jobs at a cost of over $300,000 per job. With these 59 (someday) new jobs, they will fall only 4,941 short of the 5,000 jobs promised nearly seven years and $140 million ago at Infotonics, a registered public charity now with the new improved name of SCT and even further improved with the extension name College of Nanotechnology. Yes, thanks for coming to western New York to promote a project that has been a failure for 10 years!

By the way did any of your constituents ever mention their disapproval of hydrofracking? I know I sent a fax and e-mail and so did my friends, family, co-workers, business associates. And they told their friends, family, co-workers and their business
associates who also sent letters faxes and e-mails, and then those friends, family, co-workers and their business
associates told their friends, family, coworkers and business associates to write letters, send faxes and e-mails. This over the course of a few years now. Did you get any? We’d love to hear back from you as I know you have only our best interest at heart. Love and kisses to you, Uncle Chuck. (PS: How much is the tuition at the “College” of Nanotechnology? George Orwell’s spirit would like to know.)

JIM BOBRESKI
Penn Yan
Posted by: Harleybob5

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By: kyle585
To the Editor:

I am just curious. Are the people championing hydrofracking the second generation of the people who championed the use of asbestos, lead and DDT? In those days that generation claimed there was no harm in using asbestos in the home, lead in pipes,
paint etc. and in using DDT as an insecticide. Now, many years and illnesses later, they have been proven wrong.
What will it take to prove this generation wrong now before the future illnesses and death? There needs to be a lot more investigation before any government agency should okay this procedure to find any kind of fuel.

HEALTH BEFORE WEALTH!!!.
IRENE OREIND
Waterloo

****************************

To the Editor:

While more politicians are being made aware of hydrofracking for gas in New York’s shale deposits and the probable environmental problems down the road, Rep. Tom Reed, the farmers’ friend, seems to distance himself from it all. In fact, he says if it’s
OK with the DEC, it’s OK with him. Well, Mr. Martens who heads up the state DEC has already stated his plans for allowing drilling without waiting for the comment period to close. Next Gov. Cuomo says he’ll sign a bill allowing large amounts of water to be drawn out of state lakes and probably rivers as well. You need millions and millions of gallons of water to mix
with sand and special chemicals (several toxic) in order to do hydrofracking. You can see where his stand is on the issue; it’s the bottom line — money. It’s easier to stop a problem before it
happens than it is to clean it up later, if at all possible.
Apparently, hydrofrack now and later get stuck with the cleanup bill that no one can afford. Politicians only care about what makes them look good or what they can get out of it material-wise. I’d guess they only pretend to work for us while lining their own pockets and getting re-elected. If you leave it up to one person toaffect the rest of us, like the DEC, you
can start putting money down on prepaid
future funerals before your
health starts to fail and leaves you
bankrupt.
Also beware of landfill runoff. It’s
almost as bad as hydrofracking. This
is one guinea pig that wants out of
this lab experiment. I will not go quietly
to my grave.
STEPHEN FALLON
Stanley

*****************************

To the Editor:
I am so glad that Sen. Schumer
(Uncle Chuck) is looking out for us
here in the region. I bet there were
just thousands of letters, faxes and emails
by his constituents anxious to
have millions of New York state taxpayer
dollars go to an offshore, multibillion-
dollar company (Moser Baer) to
create (someday) 59 new jobs at a cost
of over $300,000 per job. With these 59
(someday) new jobs, they will fall only
4,941 short of the 5,000 jobs promised
nearly seven years and $140 million
ago at Infotonics, a registered public
charity now with the new improved
name of SCT and even further
improved with the extension name
College of Nanotechnology.
Yes, thanks for coming to western
New York to promote a project that
has been a failure for 10 years!
By the way did any of your constituents
ever mention their disapproval
of hydrofracking? I know I sent
a fax and e-mail and so did my
friends, family, co-workers, business
associates. And they told their friends,
family, co-workers and their business
associates who also sent letters faxes
and e-mails, and then those friends,
family, co-workers and their business
associates told their friends, family, coworkers
and business associates to
write letters, send faxes and e-mails.
This over the course of a few years
now. Did you get any? We’d love to
hear back from you as I know you
have only our best interest at heart.
Love and kisses to you, Uncle
Chuck.
(PS: How much is the tuition at the
“College” of Nanotechnology? George
Orwell’s spirit would like to know.)

JIM BOBRESKI
Penn Yan
Drill baby drill!!!!
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 12:15 PM

out of 47 salt storage domes in the USA 20 have had accidents here are a few .



Statistically, the odds are remote that single-point failures involving natural gas storage facilities can produce the kind of catastrophic losses such as what occurred at Moss Bluff. Be that as it may, they have happened before. In every case, a salt cavern storage facility was the culprit, not a depleted reservoir or aquifer gas storage facilit

In the Houston area, a devastating explosion and fire occurred at the Brenham salt cavern storage facility in April 1992 when a storage cavern was over-filled and leaked liquid petroleum gas (LPG). Several people were killed in that catastrophe.

In 1980, a similar LPG leak caused by corroded casing resulted in an explosion and fire at a salt cavern storage facility located on the Barber’s Hill salt dome, which is home to a multitude of salt caverns comprising the Mont Belvieu salt cavern storage complex, not far from Moss Bluff.

Another explosion and fire occurred at the Mont Belvieu storage complex in November 1985, killing two people and prompting the evacuation of the entire town’s population of more than 2,000 residents.

Yet another fire and explosion occurred at the Mont Belvieu storage complex in October 1984 that caused several million dollars in property damage.

In 1978, a failure at a crude oil storage cavern at the West Hackberry salt cavern storage facility in south Louisiana caused the release of an estimated 72,000 barrels of crude oil, which caught fire and killed one worker.

An explosion and fire occurred in January 2001 at the Yaggy salt cavern facility near Hutchison, Kan., resulting in several deaths and substantial property damage.

In the early 1970s, the Eminence salt cavern gas storage facility in Mississippi experienced such severe salt creep (i.e., the shrinking or collapse of cavern walls) in one of its caverns that almost half of the cavern’s storage capacity was lost.

A casing leak at Entergy-Koch’s Magnolia salt cavern facility near Napoleonville, La., resulted in a large quantity of gas reportedly being vented to the atmosphere, which forced the shutdown of the facility as well as the evacuation of residents in the area until the leak was contained.

In the early 1990s, the now-defunct U.S. Energy subsidiary of Germany’s Metallgesellschaft contracted for a third party to develop a salt cavern for natural gas storage at the Stratton Ridge salt dome in Brazoria County near Freeport, Texas. The cavern failed a mechanical integrity test because it leaked gas when pressured up for storage and had to be abandoned.
Posted by: Here's Johnny

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 02:31 PM

I have the occasion to talk with folks from Pennsylvania on a regular basis. Many of them freely comment that they wish that Hydro-fracturing was not occurring where they live. This is especially true in Bradford Co. They universally regret what the gas drilling business has done to their environment.
Posted by: Ayuveda

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 03:09 PM

Stop the spread of fracking filth.



Cuomo Letter: Revised Gas Drilling and Wastewater Spreading

August 30, 2011

By Fax

Honorable Andrew M. Cuomo
Governor of New York State
The Capitol
Albany, NY 12224

Dear Governor Cuomo:

I write to request that you require your Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to stop authorizing the spreading of millions of gallons of potentially toxic and radioactive natural gas wastewater, known as “brine” or “produced water,” on thousands of miles of New York roadways for dust-control, winter de-icing and roadbed stabilization.

I also request that you require DEC to withdraw its Preliminary Revised Draft Supplemental Generic Environmental Impact Statement (SGEIS) due to its failure to fulfill Executive Order No. 41’s mandate to a) assess the environmental impacts of natural gas wastewater land-spreading and b) offer a plan to “avoid or mitigate” the impacts of that practice.

Natural Gas Wastewater Land-Spreading Concerns

DEC’s Beneficial Use Determination (BUD) program has approved natural gas wastewater to be spread on roadways at farms, residential and business properties, a summer camp for children, a water treatment plant, County fairgrounds, State lands as well as areas adjoining critical drinking water supply sources, including a major reservoir and “sole-source” and primary aquifers.

DEC has reportedly approved natural gas wastewater spreading in Chemung, Broome, Tompkins, Tioga, Chenango, Steuben, Cayuga, Cortland, Madison, Genesee, Chautauqua, Cattaraugus, Allegany, Wyoming and Otsego Counties. For example, Chautauqua County reportedly spread a total 1,322,450 gallons of “gas well production brine” in 2010 – 2011.

Natural gas drilling wastewater is documented to be contaminated with high levels of chloride and other Total Dissolved Solids (TDS), including toxic metals, as well as petroleum hydrocarbons, such as benzene, a known human cancer-causing agent, and radionuclides. Many of these pollutants are persistent when released into the environment and can pose serious threats to public health.

I have posted documents related to this practice at: http://toxicstargeting.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/foil-hl-110718.pdf

Natural gas wastewater spreading should have been banned decades ago when spraying waste oil on dusty roads was outlawed along with burying garbage in open pits. It is inconceivable that DEC still authorizes spreading potentially toxic and radioactive gas wastewater on roadways in watersheds all over the Central, Southwestern and Leatherstockings regions of New York.

I have posted an Overview Map illustrating where the gas wastewater has been approved for land-spreading: http://toxicstargeting.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/Overview_110720_1500...

Preliminary Revised Draft SGEIS Fails to Address Gas Wastewater Land-Spreading Concerns

The Preliminary Revised Draft SGEIS released on 7/8/11 fails to assess the environmental impacts of natural gas wastewater spreading in any meaningful way. It does not characterize the range of toxic and radionuclide constituents present in natural gas drilling flowback or brine/produced water. It presents only limited analytical data for brine generated by natural gas drilling, production, storage or pipeline operations. It does not determine the fate and transport of persistent gas wastewater contaminants released into the environment by the road spreading practice. It assesses neither the short-term nor the long-term health and environmental impacts of uncontrolled brine pollutants.

Land-Spreading Impact Not Assessed by DEC Pursuant to Executive Order No. 41

DEC Commissioner Martens has toured New York State to assure citizens that horizontal hydrofracturing in Marcellus Shale can be done “safely.” DEC has similarly provided assurances that gas wastewater spreading is “safe” even though it conducted no public health or environmental impact studies as part of revising the Draft SGEIS pursuant to Executive Order No. 41.

DEC cannot possibly safeguard public health and the environment if it routinely authorizes the dumping of millions of gallons of potentially toxic and radioactive gas drilling wastewater without conducting the comprehensive assessment mandated by Executive Order No. 41.

According to that Order, DEC must:

“complete its review of the public comments, make such revisions to the Draft SGEIS that are necessary to analyze comprehensively the environmental impacts associated with high-volume hydraulic fracturing combined with horizontal drilling, ensure that such impacts are appropriately avoided or mitigated consistent with the State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA), other provisions of the Environmental Conservation Law and other laws, and ensures (stet) that adequate regulatory measures are identified to protect public health and the environment;”

DEC should fulfill that mandate by immediately working with the State Department of Health to conduct a comprehensive assessment of the environmental and health impacts of all roadways and areas where natural gas wastewater spreading was approved by DEC, including residential properties, public and State lands, sole-source and primary aquifers and other water supply sources, notably the watersheds you reportedly consider sacrosanct.

Thank you for your consideration.

Best regards,

Walter Hang
215 North Cayuga Street
Ithaca, NY 14850
Posted by: Here's Johnny

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 05:46 PM

We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 05:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Stop the spread of fracking filth.



Cuomo Letter: Revised Gas Drilling and Wastewater Spreading

August 30, 2011

By Fax

Honorable Andrew M. Cuomo
Governor of New York State
The Capitol
Albany, NY 12224

Dear Governor Cuomo:

I write to request that you require your Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to stop authorizing the spreading of millions of gallons of potentially toxic and radioactive natural gas wastewater, known as “brine” or “produced water,” on thousands of miles of New York roadways for dust-control, winter de-icing and roadbed stabilization.

I also request that you require DEC to withdraw its Preliminary Revised Draft Supplemental Generic Environmental Impact Statement (SGEIS) due to its failure to fulfill Executive Order No. 41’s mandate to a) assess the environmental impacts of natural gas wastewater land-spreading and b) offer a plan to “avoid or mitigate” the impacts of that practice.

Natural Gas Wastewater Land-Spreading Concerns

DEC’s Beneficial Use Determination (BUD) program has approved natural gas wastewater to be spread on roadways at farms, residential and business properties, a summer camp for children, a water treatment plant, County fairgrounds, State lands as well as areas adjoining critical drinking water supply sources, including a major reservoir and “sole-source” and primary aquifers.

DEC has reportedly approved natural gas wastewater spreading in Chemung, Broome, Tompkins, Tioga, Chenango, Steuben, Cayuga, Cortland, Madison, Genesee, Chautauqua, Cattaraugus, Allegany, Wyoming and Otsego Counties. For example, Chautauqua County reportedly spread a total 1,322,450 gallons of “gas well production brine” in 2010 – 2011.

Natural gas drilling wastewater is documented to be contaminated with high levels of chloride and other Total Dissolved Solids (TDS), including toxic metals, as well as petroleum hydrocarbons, such as benzene, a known human cancer-causing agent, and radionuclides. Many of these pollutants are persistent when released into the environment and can pose serious threats to public health.

I have posted documents related to this practice at: http://toxicstargeting.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/foil-hl-110718.pdf

Natural gas wastewater spreading should have been banned decades ago when spraying waste oil on dusty roads was outlawed along with burying garbage in open pits. It is inconceivable that DEC still authorizes spreading potentially toxic and radioactive gas wastewater on roadways in watersheds all over the Central, Southwestern and Leatherstockings regions of New York.

I have posted an Overview Map illustrating where the gas wastewater has been approved for land-spreading: http://toxicstargeting.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/Overview_110720_1500...

Preliminary Revised Draft SGEIS Fails to Address Gas Wastewater Land-Spreading Concerns

The Preliminary Revised Draft SGEIS released on 7/8/11 fails to assess the environmental impacts of natural gas wastewater spreading in any meaningful way. It does not characterize the range of toxic and radionuclide constituents present in natural gas drilling flowback or brine/produced water. It presents only limited analytical data for brine generated by natural gas drilling, production, storage or pipeline operations. It does not determine the fate and transport of persistent gas wastewater contaminants released into the environment by the road spreading practice. It assesses neither the short-term nor the long-term health and environmental impacts of uncontrolled brine pollutants.

Land-Spreading Impact Not Assessed by DEC Pursuant to Executive Order No. 41

DEC Commissioner Martens has toured New York State to assure citizens that horizontal hydrofracturing in Marcellus Shale can be done “safely.” DEC has similarly provided assurances that gas wastewater spreading is “safe” even though it conducted no public health or environmental impact studies as part of revising the Draft SGEIS pursuant to Executive Order No. 41.

DEC cannot possibly safeguard public health and the environment if it routinely authorizes the dumping of millions of gallons of potentially toxic and radioactive gas drilling wastewater without conducting the comprehensive assessment mandated by Executive Order No. 41.

According to that Order, DEC must:

“complete its review of the public comments, make such revisions to the Draft SGEIS that are necessary to analyze comprehensively the environmental impacts associated with high-volume hydraulic fracturing combined with horizontal drilling, ensure that such impacts are appropriately avoided or mitigated consistent with the State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA), other provisions of the Environmental Conservation Law and other laws, and ensures (stet) that adequate regulatory measures are identified to protect public health and the environment;”

DEC should fulfill that mandate by immediately working with the State Department of Health to conduct a comprehensive assessment of the environmental and health impacts of all roadways and areas where natural gas wastewater spreading was approved by DEC, including residential properties, public and State lands, sole-source and primary aquifers and other water supply sources, notably the watersheds you reportedly consider sacrosanct.

Thank you for your consideration.

Best regards,

Walter Hang
215 North Cayuga Street
Ithaca, NY 14850




How many times does this guy use the word potentially as he has no proof. Making accusations without proof. Activism at its best here. I'm sure the DEC has done all the testing required to make sure this practice is safe. I'm sure they know more than a Cornell college professor trying to push his agenda.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.



No worse than some of the activist crap that is being pushed.
Posted by: Ayuveda

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.



No worse than some of the activist crap that is being pushed.


Public activism. As American as apple pie.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 06:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.



No worse than some of the activist crap that is being pushed.






Public activism. As American as apple pie.



Activism is fine if you base your argument on facts not theories and scare tactics.
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 06:30 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.



No worse than some of the activist crap that is being pushed.


I can just see gary w at lowes a professor comes in and wants a weird type of lamp what would braindead say Hey moron your stupid all your collage science crap is garbage you want this lamp because i know more then you /
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.



No worse than some of the activist crap that is being pushed.





I can just see gary w at lowes a professor comes in and wants a weird type of lamp what would braindead say Hey moron your stupid all your collage science crap is garbage you want this lamp because i know more then you /



Shows how stupid you are. Lamps aren't in hardware moron! Boy you are real brillant!!! LMAO!!!






Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.



No worse than some of the activist crap that is being pushed.





I can just see gary w at lowes a professor comes in and wants a weird type of lamp what would braindead say Hey moron your stupid all your collage science crap is garbage you want this lamp because i know more then you /



Shows how stupid you are. Lamps aren't in hardware moron! Boy you are real brillant!!! LMAO!!!


No but that girl you were hustling was in lamps. you should have seen her face after you waddled away , she put her finger up to her mouth and pretended to puke , she must like you .
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 09/01/11 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.



No worse than some of the activist crap that is being pushed.







I can just see gary w at lowes a professor comes in and wants a weird type of lamp what would braindead say Hey moron your stupid all your collage science crap is garbage you want this lamp because i know more then you /



Shows how stupid you are. Lamps aren't in hardware moron! Boy you are real brillant!!! LMAO!!!


No but that girl you were hustling was in lamps. you should have seen her face after you waddled away , she put her finger up to her mouth and pretended to puke , she must like you .



Everybody likes me except people like you who are unimportant to me. Don't hustle anybody. I'm a credible person unlike you.
Posted by: TyreTiger

Re: Frack legislation - 09/02/11 05:06 AM

Do we need new sources of energy? Has drilling for natural gas ever caused a major problem? Would there be new jobs created by drilling for natural gas? Are there dangers in any activity we undertake? Drill Baby Drill!!!!!!
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 09/02/11 07:15 AM

Originally Posted By: TyreTiger
Do we need new sources of energy? Has drilling for natural gas ever caused a major problem? Would there be new jobs created by drilling for natural gas? Are there dangers in any activity we undertake? Drill Baby Drill!!!!!!


yes we need new sources of energy but we need to do more with less and learn to change our life style and conserve, sooner or later you will have to just because the price will continue to rise , we have many types of alternative energy let’s put the same energy and effort into them.
.
yes natural gas exploration, distribution and storage have caused major accidents and will do so at a higher rate as we increase the drilling pipelines and storage .
.
yes there is danger in every activity we do but that does not mean you need to walk in front of a bus.
the problem with fracking for gas is
.
the biggest one : is it consumes and pollutes to much water . Even if they use a more natural fracking fluid your still bringing up chemicals like barium and radon from the drilling, both are very hard to remove for the water and both dangerous to life.
.
the second one is you depend on the earth rocks and layers to be stable which they are not, this results in leaked gas and danger for well contamination.

third the gas companies very large propaganda machines are spreading untruths such as natural gas burns green . it has been shown natural gas through the entire cycle pollutes more than coal. the release of gas from drilling and fracking is quite large , which is 32 times more a green house gas then carbon dioxide .
Posted by: pixie

Re: Frack legislation - 09/02/11 07:25 AM

Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.



No worse than some of the activist crap that is being pushed.







I can just see gary w at lowes a professor comes in and wants a weird type of lamp what would braindead say Hey moron your stupid all your collage science crap is garbage you want this lamp because i know more then you /



Shows how stupid you are. Lamps aren't in hardware moron! Boy you are real brillant!!! LMAO!!!


No but that girl you were hustling was in lamps. you should have seen her face after you waddled away , she put her finger up to her mouth and pretended to puke , she must like you .



Everybody likes me except people like you who are unimportant to me. Don't hustle anybody. I'm a credible person unlike you.



right let’s see who have you called morons ,idiots and other nasty names on these forums and been banned 8 times wiseguy, gasguy brainman, deiselman, and other names.
.
scientists don’t like you. universiy professors dont like you, engineers don’t like you, religious people don’t like you, activists don’t like you, people who are well off don’t like you, people who are on welfare don’t like you, sheriffs don’t like you, paramedics don’t like you . Sure sounds like you’re the problem not everyone else .
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 09/02/11 07:27 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: TyreTiger
Do we need new sources of energy? Has drilling for natural gas ever caused a major problem? Would there be new jobs created by drilling for natural gas? Are there dangers in any activity we undertake? Drill Baby Drill!!!!!!


yes we need new sources of energy but we need to do more with less and learn to change our life style and conserve, sooner or later you will have to just because the price will continue to rise , we have many types of alternative energy let’s put the same energy and effort into them.
.
yes natural gas exploration, distribution and storage have caused major accidents and will do so at a higher rate as we increase the drilling pipelines and storage .
.
yes there is danger in every activity we do but that does not mean you need to walk in front of a bus.
the problem with fracking for gas is
.
the biggest one : is it consumes and pollutes to much water . Even if they use a more natural fracking fluid your still bringing up chemicals like barium and radon from the drilling, both are very hard to remove for the water and both dangerous to life.
.
the second one is you depend on the earth rocks and layers to be stable which they are not, this results in leaked gas and danger for well contamination.

third the gas companies very large propaganda machines are spreading untruths such as natural gas burns green . it has been shown natural gas through the entire cycle pollutes more than coal. the release of gas from drilling and fracking is quite large , which is 32 times more a green house gas then carbon dioxide .




Gas companies propoganda machines? Don't make me laugh! How about all the crap you and your activist buddies put out.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 09/02/11 07:29 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.



No worse than some of the activist crap that is being pushed.












I can just see gary w at lowes a professor comes in and wants a weird type of lamp what would braindead say Hey moron your stupid all your collage science crap is garbage you want this lamp because i know more then you /



Shows how stupid you are. Lamps aren't in hardware moron! Boy you are real brillant!!! LMAO!!!


No but that girl you were hustling was in lamps. you should have seen her face after you waddled away , she put her finger up to her mouth and pretended to puke , she must like you .



Everybody likes me except people like you who are unimportant to me. Don't hustle anybody. I'm a credible person unlike you.



right let’s see who have you called morons ,idiots and other nasty names on these forums and been banned 8 times wiseguy, gasguy brainman, deiselman, and other names.
.
scientists don’t like you. universiy professors dont like you, engineers don’t like you, religious people don’t like you, activists don’t like you, people who are well off don’t like you, people who are on welfare don’t like you, sheriffs don’t like you, paramedics don’t like you . Sure sounds like you’re the problem not everyone else .





I'm not afraid to speak my mind and expose people like you for who you really are.
Posted by: brainman

Re: Frack legislation - 09/02/11 07:46 AM

Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: TyreTiger
Do we need new sources of energy? Has drilling for natural gas ever caused a major problem? Would there be new jobs created by drilling for natural gas? Are there dangers in any activity we undertake? Drill Baby Drill!!!!!!


yes we need new sources of energy but we need to do more with less and learn to change our life style and conserve, sooner or later you will have to just because the price will continue to rise , we have many types of alternative energy let’s put the same energy and effort into them.
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yes natural gas exploration, distribution and storage have caused major accidents and will do so at a higher rate as we increase the drilling pipelines and storage .
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yes there is danger in every activity we do but that does not mean you need to walk in front of a bus.
the problem with fracking for gas is
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the biggest one : is it consumes and pollutes to much water . Even if they use a more natural fracking fluid your still bringing up chemicals like barium and radon from the drilling, both are very hard to remove for the water and both dangerous to life.
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the second one is you depend on the earth rocks and layers to be stable which they are not, this results in leaked gas and danger for well contamination.

third the gas companies very large propaganda machines are spreading untruths such as natural gas burns green . it has been shown natural gas through the entire cycle pollutes more than coal. the release of gas from drilling and fracking is quite large , which is 32 times more a green house gas then carbon dioxide .




third the gas companies very large propaganda machines are spreading untruths such as natural gas burns green . it has been shown natural gas through the entire cycle pollutes more than coal. the release of gas from drilling and fracking is quite large , which is 32 times more a green house gas then carbon dioxide .




As usual the crap you are pushing is wrong.



https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=climate-footprint-of-marc