Another Murder in Auburn

Posted by: Gio

Another Murder in Auburn - 12/24/04 11:07 AM

Anyone been reading about the 16 year old mother who smothered her 11month old son? Another senseless tragedy. Parents need to remain calm when their nerves start to fray with a young child who will not stop crying. Very sad especially at this time of year.
Posted by: sassyone

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/24/04 11:08 AM

No, didn't read about this, when did that happen?
Posted by: Gio

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/24/04 11:09 AM

I believe the same day as the murder on Walnut street.
Posted by: sassyone

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/24/04 11:11 AM

Goodness, I think the one on Walnut Street the news says was there first murder this year. Now to end the year, they had two in one nite?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/24/04 11:59 AM

http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/2004/12/24/news/news02.txt
Posted by: E. Mousie

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/24/04 12:30 PM

Oh, man, this is awful. She was too young to begin with, and where oh, where was the help she obviously needed?
Posted by: cRaZeD

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/24/04 12:58 PM

This is sad - makes me very sad I wish that mom's and dad's knew that help is just a phone call away and not be scared to admit that they can't handle their babies crying any longer. It's a hard thing to admit - but it happens to us all. Or just put the baby in the crib and walk out and make a phone call - sooo sad! My prayers will be with all moms & dads struggling - may they find the courage and strength they need to get the help they may need!
Posted by: Strawberry Jam

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/25/04 09:30 AM

This truly breaks my heart. That baby did not deserve this, the girl was overwhelmed I am sure, but my gosh, where was the support she needed? All I can think of is my grandson...my own kids, we all have had a night of endless crying , ceaseless tantrums ect...I am sure. But I would never do something like this. One more little angel in heaven, god bless that child.
Posted by: Gio

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/25/04 05:30 PM

I now have heard that there where previous calls about this child being "hurt". I may have been wrong in thinking this was a tragic accident with a young mother being overwhelmed...
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/26/04 09:06 PM

16 years old -- why did this kid even keep the child? Where are the adults in this situation? Who was helping this girl???
Posted by: Della

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 07:13 AM

well it said she was at her grandmothers house...looks like she had some help
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 09:06 AM

After giving this some thought, if she was 16 and the baby was 11 months, then she must have been 15 when she gave birth, right? It is inexcusable that any family would allow such a young child to first of all give birth and second of all keep this poor child. I am not a proponent of abortion, but i do believe that there are very good circumstances where it can a last resort. (Obviously this kid never heard of the FIRST resort!) But even if the family allowed her to go through the trauma of giving birth (a body that young is NOT equiped to go through that) then at least give the poor baby a chance for a good life by placing it up for adoption with a family that could love and provide for him. What is the matter with people?? Why was this situation even allowed to happen in the first place? Sorry -- this has really hit me hard for some reason.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 09:15 AM

i had my first son at 19--yes it was hard and i had my up and downs but i had my family as a strong support group and they helped me with what they could. I now have him (5 years old and so handsome) and another son who is 18 months (hes the devil in disguise) I married their father (while I was pregnant with my 2nd son). I know its not the right way to go about it, I feel for the mother (meaning its hard to deal with) but on the other hand there are so many options for help. I don't know the family situation and whatnot...but she seemed overwhelmed and this doesnt justify for what she did and i hope she pays for it. She should have given him up for adoption at least, let someone who cant have and wants a baby raise the baby. He must have been crying for a reason..and she really had to be holding her hand over his mouth...at 11 months kids are feisty...maybe he was in pain or wet or sick...so many other ways to deal with things. It bothers me knowing what joy it is to have kids and my 5 year old is so witty and wise makes me smile. I almost lost my baby at birth and almost lost myself. Alot of problems but im good now. And so is he...i would be in 1 north if i lost either of my babies and i seriously have a tear in my eye...god bless the children
Posted by: Della

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 09:25 AM

I know a lot of people who had kids at 15-17 and none of them has killed their children. I don't think it's fair to blame the family for this girls actions....
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 10:04 AM

im not blaming them at all. Just saying that i had my family to turn to for help, didnt know if she could do the same...but Im saying she should have searched for help if she was feeling overwhelmed.
Posted by: Della

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 10:05 AM

I wasn't responding to you...I forget the quick response answers the immediate person before. The article states she was staying with a grandmother so she obviously wasn't totally on her own.
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 11:22 AM

There is no way a 15 yr old should first of all be having sex, second of all having sex without protection, thirdly be raising a child. Yes, i blame the family. If there had been control and discipline in the first place this situation would not have set itself up for disaster. If not the family, then this kid must have had a dr or other health care professional who could have steered her in the right direction if the family was too dumb to understand what was best for the infant -- a tiny human life with no defenses and no way to protect itself from this insanity. Many many people allowed this baby to fall through the cracks. They all need to take the blame.
Posted by: Bostonian

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 12:00 PM

Some may not feel this fits,but this is exactly one of the biggest reasons that I am pro choice as far as abortions go. There is a stigma attached to people who give away their children, where most abortions are quiet and secret. This girl was a child herself. What a shame.
Posted by: Hola

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 12:00 PM

Quote:


a tiny human life with no defenses and no way to protect itself from this insanity.




What you are saying here is true. However, I do not agree with many of your points. Had this tiny human life been aborted, it never would have had the chance to live at all. Parents do not always know what their children are up to. You can teach your child what is right, but they have to be able to make their own decisions. Parents will not always be with the children when certain situations arise. The parents have to hope that their child has listened and learned from what they have been told. I will agree that adoption would probably have been the best thing for this child, but I don't know all of the circumstances either. How do we know that this girl chose to get pregnant? Maybe she was raped. There is a lot that could have played into this scenario, we just don't know. I understand that your responses were immediate and that immediate responses often come with hostility when a life has been lost. I am often guilty of that too, but I am sure that there is much more to this story that may or may not come out. I was just trying to point out that maybe abortion is not always the right answer. I know MANY couples who would have adopted and cared for a baby that was unexpected to a teenaged girl. Many people cannot have babies of their own and by acts of God, these other people do have them without being able to care for them. Unfortunately, this family has to live with this the rest of their lives. There were some very poor choices made, but you can't put most of the blame on the family. The family didn't kill the baby, the mother did.
Posted by: Hola

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 12:03 PM

Quote:

Some may not feel this fits,but this is exactly one of the biggest reasons that I am pro choice as far as abortions go. There is a stigma attached to people who give away their children, where most abortions are quite and secret. This girl was a child herself. What a shame.




I agree here too Bostonian. I am pro-choice as well. I, myself, could never have an abortion- but I do understand that there are circumstances where the mother should be given the choice. I just don't feel that people should be forced to have an abortion. I guess that is what I was trying to get across in my previous post.
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 01:56 PM

Hola, I firmly believe that abortion is only a course of last resort and should never be taken lightly. I do question the health consquences of a 15 yr old body trying to carry and deliver an infant. But - she made it through the physical trauma, but the emotional trauma was yet to come. I think of quite a few childless couples i know who would give anything to protect and love that child, and how sad that it's little life came to an end in such a violent way. So so very sad.
Posted by: E. Mousie

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 02:22 PM

I know someone who had a baby at seventeen and 3/4 and she did a complete turnaround on her life once she held the baby. Yes, the birth was a roughie, and I doubt she will ever have another but to see the family pull together around her and helping her through those difficult first months was impressive.
Her child has a family that cared enough to help her out, and to keep everything on a even keel. The family can make a huge difference!
Posted by: Hola

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 03:46 PM

Thanks for clarifying RubyJuly.
Posted by: Jazzmine

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 04:16 PM

Quote:

There is no way a 15 yr old should first of all be having sex




LOL get real! 15 is quite old to be having sex THESE days. We are lucky if 10, 11, 12 year olds aren't getting pregnant!!!! I'm not saying it's right.. it's just reality.. There are many situations where there is NO family or the family that is there does NOT care.. so whats to happen then?
Posted by: Z Genius Lusifer

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 05:46 PM

by 15 I had had 4 fourteen year old's and 1 sixteen year old.
Posted by: Rascal

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 05:49 PM

Quote:

by 15 I had had 4 fourteen year old's and 1 sixteen year old.




And all family
Posted by: Z Genius Lusifer

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 05:50 PM

did they tell?
Posted by: Buddy

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/27/04 08:20 PM

Nope, my dad, delivered your girls, all hand puppets.
Posted by: Eileen

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/28/04 01:44 PM

Quote:

Hola, I firmly believe that abortion is only a course of last resort and should never be taken lightly. I do question the health consquences of a 15 yr old body trying to carry and deliver an infant. But - she made it through the physical trauma, but the emotional trauma was yet to come. I think of quite a few childless couples i know who would give anything to protect and love that child, and how sad that it's little life came to an end in such a violent way. So so very sad.




I had my son at 19. I am a great mother. There are PLENTY of girls, that get pregnant as young as 12, they keep the child and pretty much the child is "pawned" off on the grandparents. I have come across countless message boards on the internet about 11- 15 year olds being pregnant, I was appalled! (sp) I didn't realize there were so many GIRLS having babies. When I was 12, I was still playing with my barbie dolls!

But I was also smart to read about pregnancy and post partum when I was pregnant. I knew what was to come after I had my son, and what COULD come...like post-partum depression, which is more common then a lot of people think.

I think that if any young girl has a child under the age is I don't know...say 18, that they should be FORCED to take classes that teach you about your bbody, what it will go through, and what to expect afterwards.

Sorry if this offends anyone, or sounds rude. I don't mean for it to be.

Eileen
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/28/04 02:04 PM

Eileen, I don't think your comments could ever be taken as offensive or rude. Frankly i think you are right on target. Some kind of manditory training should be provided in cases where the family cannot or will not get involved. We make kids take classes before they can operate an ATV, don't we? Classes are offered for gun safety and drivers safety, why not the most precious and risky responsibility of caring for an infant?

You mention that you had a baby at 19, well there are a whole lot of changes that take place between 15 and 19. I will never be convinced that any 15 yr old is capable of the maturity that is needed to raise an infant. Even between 15 and 17 there is a world of difference in the thought process and ability of a young girl. Again i just have to ask where are the medical professionals and caseworkers in this situation???
Posted by: past tense

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/28/04 02:08 PM

WOOOOOOOOO!


I like Eileen. Problem is sister, that "teaching women about their bodies" means (to the radical, freaky, conservative right) encouraging them to have sex. Unfortunately these pasty, dough-y, old, white, men seem to think if we know where everything IS we'll automatically USE IT.
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/28/04 02:14 PM

Hmmm... Eileen sounds way too reasonable and sane to be in THIS playgroup! LOL
Posted by: drummom

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/28/04 02:22 PM

What do you want the medical professionals and caseworkers to do? Force the girl to give the baby up for adoption? Why would a caseworker be involved at all if a 15 year old is pregnant and not having any problems? We have many many many young girls out here having babies, the youngest I have seen was an 11 year old raped by her 18 year old uncle. Luckily, the family had him arrested and deported back to his own country. Unfortunatly, there are many 14-17 year olds who think they are mature enough to handle having a baby. The hospital I work for opened a Maternity ward in February of 2002. So far, we have had multiple young girls returning for their second and sometimes third births since the opening. Caseworkers at the hospital can call CPS is if there is evidence of drug abues, physical abuse or a young girl (usually under 16) and the father of the baby is much older. But that doesnt mean CPS can do anything about it. We had one patient that had her baby at 15, the father of the baby was 34. The mother of the 15 year old thought he was just wonderful, and encouraged the relationship. She got investigated by CPS for child abuse.
So while I wish there was something that could be done, I dont know what it is. Hopefully people will wake up and realize that babies are not dolls and cant be put back in the toy box when you are tired of playing with them
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/28/04 02:30 PM

Thanks for a reply from the trenches. I cannot imagine having to see the same children returning for a 2nd or 3rd pregnancy. But i truly believe that there needs to be some kind of monitoring or counseling that hapens when such a young girl is found to be pregnant. Why can't family services or some other agency get involved? If a child of 13, 14, 15 turns up pregnant doesn't that indicate that there is a problem within the family? Someone was not paying attention, someone was not parenting this kid in order for her to get pregnant. Even when it happens despite parental oversight, wouldn't a responsible parent know that giving up the child for adoption the sensible thing to do? Shouldn't there be an unemotional 3rd party to help the family cope and make decisions? To address your comment, if a 15 yr old is pregnant, then that IS a problem!

No, i am not suggesting that medical professionals "talk her into" an abortion or an adoption. But as a medical professional don't you agree that a young body can be harmed by the stress of carrying an infant and then giving birth? Couldn't a difficult birth from an immature body deprive the girl of the ability to successfully give birth in the future?
Posted by: Eileen

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/28/04 02:47 PM

In a sense, you are doomed if you do ( teach about pregnancy/body ) and doomed if you don't.

If you do, it may promote sexual activity and there may be more young pregnancies. But at the same time, if you don't teach about pregnancy, many young females might not recognize the symptoms of pregnancy, therefore there might not be any pre-natal care until their 2nd or 3rd trimesters. The first trimester is the most critical for care.

I would LOVE to go to HS's and talk to classes to tell them how it ISN'T easy, how I ended up with a emergency c-section, and a child that was born with health issues, stuff I never even thought about.

But I am not sure if they have anything like that here. In FL, they had some teens come in to talk to us.
Posted by: drummom

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/28/04 02:50 PM

I agree, it is a problem, but since there arent enough caseworkers for the "real" problems ie child abuse, molestations, etc, this would fall way down the ladder. I wish that these parents would just "get over themselves" and be responsible parents. I work with a women that had twins at 15 and a 3rd baby at 16. I notice that alot of times she acts just like a teenager, mooning over boyband pictures, hanging out with her friends and basically ignoring her kids. I asked her what was up and her reply almost knocked me over. She said and I quote "I didnt get to be a teenager because I was having babies, so now I am trying to get back my lost years" I told her that was her problem, those years are gone and start acting like an adult. Whats really funny is her twins are now almost 15 and they are more mature than she is.
I wish there was something that could be done, but I just dont what it could be.
Posted by: Eileen

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/28/04 02:56 PM

Quote:

I agree, it is a problem, but since there arent enough caseworkers for the "real" problems ie child abuse, molestations, etc, this would fall way down the ladder. I wish that these parents would just "get over themselves" and be responsible parents. I work with a women that had twins at 15 and a 3rd baby at 16. I notice that alot of times she acts just like a teenager, mooning over boyband pictures, hanging out with her friends and basically ignoring her kids. I asked her what was up and her reply almost knocked me over. She said and I quote "I didnt get to be a teenager because I was having babies, so now I am trying to get back my lost years" I told her that was her problem, those years are gone and start acting like an adult. Whats really funny is her twins are now almost 15 and they are more mature than she is.
I wish there was something that could be done, but I just dont what it could be.




Wow. I could never do that. Like you said, those years passed. It was her decision to have sex at a young age, protection or not, you know the consequences of sex, PREGNANCY.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/28/04 07:44 PM

Like I said before I had my first son at 5 and my 2nd one is 18 months...takes a strong person. I was one of the lucky ones and didn't go thru the post partum...I couldn't imagine. These pregnant girls should take a class and use REAL babies...not the ones that have the "smart chip" puh-leez.
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 08:34 AM

According to last night's Citizen, the father of the baby is 23. That means he was 22 when he impregnated a 15 year old girl. Statutory rape laws are on the books for a reason..... and i am editing this post because i see that he was sentenced to 10 yrs probation for raping the girl. So essentially, as Emily Lytella would say on Saturday Night Live so many years ago.... "Oh. Never mind."
Posted by: sassyone

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 09:28 AM

10 years probation?? Who the heck was the judge in that case?
Posted by: past tense

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 09:36 AM

A plea probably resulted in that sentence.
Posted by: sassyone

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 09:37 AM

Yes, your probably right, but goodness. Now look what happened!
Posted by: past tense

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 09:39 AM

When did this happen? Before or after the baby died? If before, an argument could be made that the interest of the child in having a father to care and provide overrides the statuatory issue, esp. if he pleads out. An "everyone wins" from the court perspective.
Posted by: drummom

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 09:43 AM

See, thats one of the problems. Someone goes out, rapes a teenager, gets her pregnant and he gets a slap on the hand. 10 years probation, big deal. Does he now have to register as a sex offender in NY for what he did? Right before Christmas we got something in the mail about a sex offender in our neighborhood, and looked at the address and picture of the guy, he lives across the street from us. He had a relationship with a 16 year old girl when he was 23 (he is now 25). From the info in the flyer, the police and parents found out about this "relationship" when someone found them in a car. Now what really strikes me as strange about this whole situation, if he is a registered sex offender, why is his 6 year old daughter ok to live with him??? We thought the idiot had moved until we got this flyer, apparently he had been in jail all this time. Now that he is back, the loud annoying music is back and his car alarm goes off everytime someone sneezes.
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 10:14 AM

Quote:

When did this happen? Before or after the baby died? If before, an argument could be made that the interest of the child in having a father to care and provide overrides the statuatory issue, esp. if he pleads out. An "everyone wins" from the court perspective.




According to the Citizen he was sentenced in January.
Posted by: past tense

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 10:17 AM

That's probably it, then. They figured the kid would be better off w/ a scumbag father than a scumbag father in jail. And if this girl lived w/ her grandmother, at that age....all leads up to "best interests of the child" considerations.
Posted by: Eileen

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 11:15 AM

Statutory rape is nothing new, it happens EVERYDAY. When I was in HS, the Seniors were dating the Freshman, meaning a 14/15 year old with a 17/18 year old. It depends on the parents, if they know, and if they want to press charges.

Then there are the girls that LIE abour their age, they say they are 18, to get the older guy, what happens if he then gets her pregnant? Statutory rape, WITHOUT KNOWING IT.

Do they need to start checking these girls ID's before getting intimate?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 02:09 PM

seriously...its gonna have to start!! sad, but true!!! I have seen these girls at the mall and such..they are like 12 or 13 but dressing (like hookers) and look like 18 or 19. SCARY!! My parents would have killed me!
Posted by: sassyone

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/29/04 06:29 PM

I see girls every day in the summer dressing like hookers. I have a real hard time understanding how the parents can allow them to walk out the door with their skirts hiked up to the ar$$,black boots, 4 inches of makeup on. Its disgusting.
Posted by: E. Mousie

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/30/04 05:22 PM

yeah, but if the moms try to discipline the girls, they hollar abuse or whatever, and the parents are given grief so what then? sigh....the kids simply do not see the long range results of what they are doing.
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/31/04 04:22 PM

Quote:

I see girls every day in the summer dressing like hookers. I have a real hard time understanding how the parents can allow them to walk out the door with their skirts hiked up to the ar$$,black boots, 4 inches of makeup on. Its disgusting.



A lot of kids are getting themselves dressed and out the door on their own these days. Mom or Dad are already at work or else too rushed to take a good look at the trashy way their daughter is dressed. OR, as has been the habit for many many years, they are re-dressing after they leave the house. Any way you look at it, these girls have been watching too much Britney Spears and think they look "hot. So sad.
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/31/04 04:24 PM

Quote:

yeah, but if the moms try to discipline the girls, they hollar abuse or whatever, and the parents are given grief so what then? sigh....the kids simply do not see the long range results of what they are doing.




I can recall "giving my parents grief" and i think they gave me a crack in the mouth and a grounding in return. It seems like most parents are either too tired or too busy to care about discipline or laying down the law and then enforcing it. Ever read that Dear Abby essay, something about "I have the worst parents in the world..."? It says volumes!
Posted by: Della

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/31/04 05:27 PM

oh the grounding...I dreaded that as much as "I'm disappointed in you"
Posted by: sassyone

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/31/04 06:58 PM

Well I did question some friends I know that both parents also work, and are gone before their kids leave for school. And you are probably correct. The kids either dress the way they want, because they are also home from school before the parents get home from work also. Or if the parents are home, they hike up the skirts and plaster on the makeup after they leave the house. When I was in school there was a dean of "women" who stood in the hall and visually "measured" the length of your skirts. Lots would get sent home.
Posted by: Della

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 12/31/04 08:00 PM

8 years of Catholic school here...and I'm appalled at what my daughter tries to get away with
Posted by: RubyJuly

Re: Another Murder in Auburn - 01/05/05 11:46 AM

Quote:

8 years of Catholic school here...and I'm appalled at what my daughter tries to get away with




8 years of Catholic school for you or your daughter?